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Massillon attempting to say open carry is illegal there

N605TW

Activist Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
118
Location
Columbus, Ohio
MyWifeSaidYes, my last encounter with Grove City was when two units approached me and my friend geocaching around 3am. I will admit that we looked suspicious. Short version is they ran my vehicle plate and my friends driver's license. Then told us to have fun.

Joanie, sometime next week would work for me. I'm getting over a nasty cold and sharing is not always caring.
 

Werz

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
301
Location
Northeast Ohio
The best way to deal with the problem in Massillon is to get the municipal ordinance (549.12) repealed.

Don't contact the Stark County Prosecutor's Office. They don't prosecute municipal ordinances, and all misdemeanors prosecuted in Massillon Municipal Court are under the jurisdiction of the Massillon City Prosecutor.

Do contact the Massillon City Prosecutor (Pericles G. Stergios). Send him an email at prosecutor@massillonohio.com.
Do contact the Massillon President of Council (Tony M. Townsend). Send him an email at councilpresident@massillonohio.com.

Don't just chat them up on the phone, orally reciting law without citations. That is grossly ineffective.

Do provide them with something in writing. This should be enough to interest them in reading further. All you need to do is fill in the descriptions of the ordinance in question.

See what reaction that gets. If it does not get a positive reaction (or if it gets no response at all), stay in touch with your member who lives in the City of Massillon. You may need that person at a city council meeting. If it comes to that, I can probably show up at a meeting.
 

NEOOpenCarry

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Messages
132
Location
Akron, Ohio
The best way to deal with the problem in Massillon is to get the municipal ordinance (549.12) repealed.

Don't contact the Stark County Prosecutor's Office. They don't prosecute municipal ordinances, and all misdemeanors prosecuted in Massillon Municipal Court are under the jurisdiction of the Massillon City Prosecutor.

Do contact the Massillon City Prosecutor (Pericles G. Stergios). Send him an email at prosecutor@massillonohio.com.
Do contact the Massillon President of Council (Tony M. Townsend). Send him an email at councilpresident@massillonohio.com.

Don't just chat them up on the phone, orally reciting law without citations. That is grossly ineffective.

Do provide them with something in writing. This should be enough to interest them in reading further. All you need to do is fill in the descriptions of the ordinance in question.

See what reaction that gets. If it does not get a positive reaction (or if it gets no response at all), stay in touch with your member who lives in the City of Massillon. You may need that person at a city council meeting. If it comes to that, I can probably show up at a meeting.

THANK YOU! This is exactly what we needed. I will be calling today as well as sending this letter. Thanks again!
 

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
On Saturday, I sent the following to the council president, the law director and the mayor (just so she knows what's going on).

To whom it may concern-

Can you please advise me on the laws regarding carrying firearms in Massillion?

I prefer to openly carry my handgun in a hip holster. I was advised by an acquaintance that firearms are not allowed in the city, whether openly carried or concealed.

Since this goes against state preemption (ORC 9.68), I was hoping you could confirm for me what the laws actually are.

Thanks!

<my name>
<my email address>
April 20, 2013


No responses as of 3:45pm today (Monday), but quick responses are usually "I'll look into that" type messages. If they are looking into it, I should hear something back tomorrow or Wednesday.

If I hear nothing by Friday, I'll email again and immediately make some phone calls to ask if their email system is working. :rolleyes:

UPDATE: I did receive a reply! The law director replied on Sunday but his email got caught in my spam filter. Here is his reply and my follow-up email:

The city ordinances are basically the same as the Ohio Revised Code, the link below will lead you to them online, and chapter 549 of the City Ordinances addresses your question.
Let me know if any questions.
Thanks
Perry Stergios

And my reply to all:

Perry-

Thanks for your quick response! I really appreciate that.

Also , thanks for providing me with the link to your city codes. I am not a lawyer, but it DOES look like you guys are violating state law.

Your ordinance 549.12 starts out by saying “(a) No person shall carry on or about his person a pistol…”

Unlike many other ordinances listed, 549.12 does not have a notation at the end showing what section of the ORC it is based on. I tried searching at codes.ohio.gov for a similar section but could not find one. If you know exactly which state code this ordinance is based on, could you forward that info, please?

Again, I am not a lawyer, but your ordinance 549.12 appears to violate Ohio Revised Code 9.68 and should probably be repealed or amended ASAP. Should a person be arrested for violating that ordinance, your city may be in danger of lawsuits. As an attorney, you probably know that ORC 9.68 provides for awarding costs and attorney fees should you be sued.

Thanks for your time and I hope to hear from you soon.

 
Last edited:

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
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Messages
5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Perry-

Thanks for your quick response! I really appreciate that.

Also , thanks for providing me with the link to your city codes. I am not a lawyer, but it DOES look like you guys are violating state law.

Your ordinance 549.12 starts out by saying “(a) No person shall carry on or about his person a pistol…”

Unlike many other ordinances listed, 549.12 does not have a notation at the end showing what section of the ORC it is based on. I tried searching at codes.ohio.gov for a similar section but could not find one. If you know exactly which state code this ordinance is based on, could you forward that info, please?

Again, I am not a lawyer, but your ordinance 549.12 appears to violate Ohio Revised Code 9.68 and should probably be repealed or amended ASAP. Should a person be arrested for violating that ordinance, your city may be in danger of lawsuits. As an attorney, you probably know that ORC 9.68 provides for awarding costs and attorney fees should you be sued.

Thanks for your time and I hope to hear from you soon.
There is nothing more dangerous than a citizen with the law in their hands.
 

Werz

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
301
Location
Northeast Ohio
And my reply to all:
Perry-

Thanks for your quick response! I really appreciate that.

Also , thanks for providing me with the link to your city codes. I am not a lawyer, but it DOES look like you guys are violating state law.

Your ordinance 549.12 starts out by saying “(a) No person shall carry on or about his person a pistol…”

Unlike many other ordinances listed, 549.12 does not have a notation at the end showing what section of the ORC it is based on. I tried searching at codes.ohio.gov for a similar section but could not find one. If you know exactly which state code this ordinance is based on, could you forward that info, please?

Again, I am not a lawyer, but your ordinance 549.12 appears to violate Ohio Revised Code 9.68 and should probably be repealed or amended ASAP. Should a person be arrested for violating that ordinance, your city may be in danger of lawsuits. As an attorney, you probably know that ORC 9.68 provides for awarding costs and attorney fees should you be sued.

Thanks for your time and I hope to hear from you soon.
His first response was very likely "off the cuff." Now that you have been very specific, the next response will probably take longer. He will likely realize that 549.12 does not reflect a Revised Code prohibition, that the city is vulnerable under R.C. 9.68, and that he needs to talk to city council about it. How quickly that happens will depend on his relationship with city council.

On your next follow-up, you might mention Alliance. They're at opposite ends of the county, but if he decides to contact Mr. Zumbar, he may learn that everyone's life will be easier if he just convinces city council to repeal the ordinance.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Did something interesting happen in Alliance? Being new to the State, there may be some 2A history of which I am unaware.
 

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
Alliance had an issue with harassing an OC'er in a park with an invalid "No firearms" law.

Although the thread is at OFCC, it's worth glancing over: http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=62433

The original post by TerryW on that board is:

I went to our city park tonight after dinner to walk my dog as I do several nights a week. And as usual I was open carrying. Only thing different about tonight, is that there was a cop parked in the lot. I got out at about the same time as he did, when I heard " sir want to cover that up" I said "no" 'Well if I get one complaint I'm going to arrest you for inducing a panic. I told him what I was doing was perfectly legal and walked away. He circled the park, came back to the lot and informed me that according to city ordinance I could not carry in the park and that a supervisor was on the way. The super' had the ordinance highlighted and showed it to me. I tried to explain that state law supersedes a city ordinance, but all I got was that they didn't know anything about that, and basically that they can't keep up with the "laws" Asked for ID and at first I was going to refuse but he threatened to arrest me on the spot, so I caved. They also said I must be looking for a police confrontation because I recorded this confrontation. lol ( they recorded me ) I've read for years on these forums about how police act, and now I have seen it first hand. Upon parting, I was told that they will be looking into this matter, and a arrest warrant "might" be forthcoming.
 

MyWifeSaidYes

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Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
His first response was very likely "off the cuff." Now that you have been very specific, the next response will probably take longer. He will likely realize that 549.12 does not reflect a Revised Code prohibition, that the city is vulnerable under R.C. 9.68, and that he needs to talk to city council about it. How quickly that happens will depend on his relationship with city council.

On your next follow-up, you might mention Alliance. They're at opposite ends of the county, but if he decides to contact Mr. Zumbar, he may learn that everyone's life will be easier if he just convinces city council to repeal the ordinance.


There are typically two types of responses I get to my "Can you tell me the actual rule?" email, a-hole or clueless.

So far, this is textbook clueless. That doesn't mean he's actually clueless, just that he's probably playing dumb while hoping that I'm dumb. (Shut up. I heard that! :))

If there is any pushback here, the next email will bring up Alliance in some detail and how a civil suit was avoided by simply repealing the invalid law.

I'm good with waiting a bit for Perry to do something or drop the ball.

Anybody in Massillon able to go to the next city council meeting?
 

MyWifeSaidYes

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Messages
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Location
Logan, OH
Ha, ha...no.

Three of us went up to an Alliance city council meeting to support TerryW in his fight to fix this issue. Werz spoke quite eloquently and made it clear to council what they needed to do regarding the laws in the park. I spoke and brought up a couple other ordinances that needed amending or repeal. JSlack was there and gave nasty looks to the council and police chief.

That was in July. The laws were repealed in September.

Yay!
 

NEOOpenCarry

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Messages
132
Location
Akron, Ohio
Ha, ha...no.

Three of us went up to an Alliance city council meeting to support TerryW in his fight to fix this issue. Werz spoke quite eloquently and made it clear to council what they needed to do regarding the laws in the park. I spoke and brought up a couple other ordinances that needed amending or repeal. JSlack was there and gave nasty looks to the council and police chief.

That was in July. The laws were repealed in September.

Yay!

That is awesome. I did not know of this. The lady at the city council who I talked with is out of the office until Monday, but I will be calling her first thing Monday morning and asking if she has had the chance to talk personally with Mr. Stergios on the issue. Lets keep this guy pinned down so we can see some results.
 

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
Print out the text of 549.12 and ORC 9.68 and take them to the meeting.

Ask "Has anyone brought the issue of Massillon ordinance 549.12 violating Ohio Revised Code 9.68 to council's attention?"

If they say yes, ask "When will that ordinance be amended to comply with state law?"

If they say no, ask if you can provide them the printouts you brought that seem to verify the violation.

Also, if they say no, ask them "Who do I talk to, or what is the process, to obtain copies of public records?" Then let me know so I can get copies of all the emails they've received from me.

:D
 

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
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Messages
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Location
Logan, OH
I just sent the law director a reminder since I haven't heard from him in two weeks. This is a normal time to wait, I just want him to realize I'm not going away.

Perry-

It’s been a couple weeks now and I hadn’t heard back from you about Massillon ordinance 549.12 that violates Ohio law 9.68.

In your last email, you provided me a web link to the Massillon ordinances so I could confirm the violation for myself. Thanks again for that link.

I’m including my email history in case you don’t have it. I think these emails qualify as public records, so if you’re missing them, this should help.

Do you know if council will be acting on this issue soon? The city of Riverside was just slapped with a $3.6 million dollar lawsuit for civil rights violations because police officers were not following laws correctly. Since your invalid law is on the books, an officer would be able to look up and follow an invalid law. While the officer would probably be immune, I believe the city would be fully exposed.

I would hope council acts quickly to change that ordinance.

Thanks for your assistance in this issue!

May 5, 2013
 

Mike

Site Co-Founder
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May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Recommend you organize a nice family friendly open carry picnic in a local park - invite gun owners and the press to show up. This type of event get's the best press and communicates the message to bureacrats and law enforcement what the law is and that you are prepared to follow it.
 

NEOOpenCarry

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Messages
132
Location
Akron, Ohio
Update!

I received an email from a councilman at large. I will be calling him first thing tomorrow morning. Here is the email:

Good morning, sir. Our Council Clerk forwarded a message to us concerning
open carry in Ohio. However, there was no other information as to why you
wrote to us. Would you please contact me so we can talk about it? I am a
concealed carry permit holder and I carry daily wherever permitted by law.
Ohio is an open carry state and I don't believe Jamie Slutz is speaking
in an official capacity. If his comment is based on a discussion that was
held within the police department and he has been instructed by his
superiors to arrest anyone carrying openly, I'd like to know about it.

I am Chairman of the Police and Fire Committee within City Council and
meet with the Chiefs of both departments frequently. Once I know what
prompted your message, I may be able to get some quick answers.

You may call my cell at 330 284-1240 to discuss.

Thank you...

Milan Chovan
Councilman at Large, Massillon Ohio



I will be calling to let him know that we have all been trying to have this certain ordinance repealed and get a definite answer as to what they believe the legality of open carry is in Massillon for over a month now. Hopefully this is who we need to be talking to and he will be able to get the job done for us. I will keep everyone informed!
 

Werz

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
301
Location
Northeast Ohio
Good morning, sir. Our Council Clerk forwarded a message to us concerning
open carry in Ohio. However, there was no other information as to why you
wrote to us. Would you please contact me so we can talk about it? I am a
concealed carry permit holder and I carry daily wherever permitted by law.
Ohio is an open carry state and I don't believe Jamie Slutz is speaking
in an official capacity. If his comment is based on a discussion that was
held within the police department and he has been instructed by his
superiors to arrest anyone carrying openly, I'd like to know about it.

I am Chairman of the Police and Fire Committee within City Council and
meet with the Chiefs of both departments frequently. Once I know what
prompted your message, I may be able to get some quick answers.
This is the person you want to cultivate! In Alliance, there was a young councilwoman who wasn't even old enough to buy a handgun but who actively supported the Second Amendment. She was instrumental in pressing to have their "no guns in the park" ordinance repealed. In fact, she told me that she was anxious to obtain her CHL shortly after she turned twenty-one. Don't miss the opportunity to bring someone like that "into the fold."
 

color of law

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http://www.meetup.com/Northern-Ohio-Prepper-Network-Back-to-Basics/members/40832272/


Introduction

Hi. My name is Milan Chovan. My friends call me Cho. I live in Massillon Ohio. I'm married with three grown daughters. I have two small grandchildren. I own my own business. In addition, I'm a Councilman at Large for the city of Massillon.

I've always been a proponent of a self sufficient lifestyle and individual freedoms. I don't like to rely on others to provide for me and my family. I'm not a doomsday prepper or a conspiracy theorist. Rather, I believe in being prepared for natural emergencies.

Handled this the right way and you will have an advocate.
 
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