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Thread: open carrying in NJ

  1. #1
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    open carrying in NJ

    Would anyone exercise there 2A rights in a anti 2A state like NJ, or NY?

    Since the police encounter very few citizens if none at all exercising there 2A rights in these police states.

    How do you thing an encounter with local leo would be handled?

    I suspect you would be surrounded by swat and forced to the ground and treated like a criminal or perhaps worst then a criminal.

    Your thoughts?

    Best regards

    CCJ

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    bump

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    open carrying in NJ

    Not sure what you are asking here? Many activities that most of us associate with exercising our rights (i.e. open carry) are illegal in the above mentioned states. I would exercise my rights in those states to the fullest extent allowed by law and would actively work to increase those rights by advocating for laws to be changed.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Would anyone exercise there 2A rights in a anti 2A state like NJ, or NY?

    Since the police encounter very few citizens if none at all exercising there 2A rights in these police states.

    How do you thing an encounter with local leo would be handled?

    I suspect you would be surrounded by swat and forced to the ground and treated like a criminal or perhaps worst then a criminal.

    Your thoughts?

    Best regards

    CCJ
    You pretty much answered it, except under their law you would be a criminal. It's illegal in NY even with a permit, in NJ it's legal with a permit but if you OC you will undoubtedly lose it soon enough.

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    Getting a carry permit in NJ unless your well connected or ex leo is next to impossible.

    CCJ

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    I had to visit NJ a while back. Looks like I will have to do it again. I have family in NJ and the obligatory visits must happen. In my home state of Washington, I open carry every day, all day, all night. When I go to NJ I only carry a holster, on my belt where everyone can see it.
    Open Carry Empty Holster Protest.
    It always generates conversation (all positive so far), and it is not illegal. Can I get arrested in NJ for doing something legal? You betcha!! That is why I only visit.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  7. #7
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Getting a carry permit in NJ unless your well connected or ex leo is next to impossible.

    CCJ
    You're.

    <sigh>

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    Can I get arrested in NJ for doing something legal? You betcha!! That is why I only visit.

    Let put it this way, even if you have your unloaded pistol locked in your car trunk in NJ, you can still get 3 to 5 years in the pokey if you make any stops in NJ on your journey under FOPA. People have been sent to jail for having a unloaded pistol in the trunk. Google it.

    People can and have been sent up for having a BB gun in their car. They could charge you under the Graves Act in NJ and get 3 to 5 years. And if you have a BB gun in your car and go on school property...it is 7 years in jail.

    The law is so bad there, that even residents who take their pistols to the shooting ranges cannot make any stops along the way....except for reasonable deviations...and even then it may not be an excuse to stay out of jail.

    Open carry might have been tolerated in rural areas before 1966, when the FID law came into being....but it seems after that. The 'door' was shut.

    NJ has long been into gun control from the early 1920's and on up through today. Look at the dates below.

    Concealed carry permit needed ... 1924
    http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bi...e=0305&zoom=90


    License needed to carry ... 1928
    http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bi...84&amp;zoom=90

    Permit to purchase a pistol now required ... 1954
    http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bi...le=178&zoom=90

    Firearms ID card law ... 1966
    http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bi...e=0480&zoom=60

    Just be careful when visiting that state. Things that we can do legally in other states can get you locked up for years in NJ.
    Last edited by Midwest; 10-27-2013 at 12:32 PM.
    I am not a lawyer, I study the history of gun control laws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    You're.

    <sigh>
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9_kahA_wQo

    grammar police .... reminded me of this video ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
    You pretty much answered it, except under their law you would be a criminal. It's illegal in NY even with a permit, in NJ it's legal with a permit but if you OC you will undoubtedly lose it soon enough.
    Allegedly NJ has CCW permits.
    in effect they are mythical.
    they are Never issued to non LEO except former LEOs.
    in practice, NJ carry permits do not exist. NJ takes the "may" in "may issue" very far.
    applying for CCW in NJ is asking for a rejection.
    it is very sad and ridiculous. IMO CC is a poor substitute for OC with no permits.
    We live in fear in NJ.

    if you were to OC and were spotted by LEO you would probably be accosted, maybe drawn on and told to put your hands on your head and don't move.

    NJ doesn't understand that the current legislation is actually preempted many ways. They just pass whatever and they control the enforcement here so NJ govt is basically lawless.
    We also have major government corruption and cronyism here...

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    I have been OCing on my property over a couple of months, and the neighbors and their visitors and my visitors have not made any MWAG calls and I have not been harassed or anything.

    It is so natural and good and healthy. I don't understand why this corrupt state does not recognize our basic human rights in public. This is why I am emigrating.
    Last edited by DanNabis; 06-05-2014 at 12:51 AM. Reason: wrote 'and' meant 'any'

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    NJ is like this because in a Constitutional Convention of 1947, the Second Amendment was left out of the Constitution. They also had yet another Constitutional Convention in 1966 right about the time that damned Firearms ID Card Law went into effect.


    Please don't take my word for it, read it yourself.

    http://conservativenewjersey.com/han...-in-new-jersey

    ".....the Second Amendment does not really apply to New Jersey. Delegates to the 1947 New Jersey Constitutional Convention believed that the right of the people to keep and bear arms was so obvious and universally accepted that they did not include it the wording in our state Constitution - a presumptive error of epic proportions."

    And...if that wasn't bad enough. NJ already had a long history of restricting guns going back to the 1920's and has a history of oppression, high taxes, big government and over regulation. Here is some prime reading material if anyone is interested.

    http://cemeterysgunblob.com/2012/01/...e-so-anti-gun/

    http://cemeterysgunblob.com/2012/01/...gun-part-deux/

    .
    I am not a lawyer, I study the history of gun control laws.

  13. #13
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    The above post made me dust off a copy of the NJ Constitution.

    Yes, indeed, there is no mention anywhere in the NJ Constitution that would allow for a citizen to "keep and bear arms"..

    From NJ state papers.

    Article 1

    RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES/NATURAL RIGHTS.

    1- All persons are by nature free and independent and have certain natural and unalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring,possessing, and protecting property, and of pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness

    Jump to paragraph 5 under Article 1

    Equal Rights.

    5. No person shall be denied the enjoyment of any civil or military right nor be discriminated against in the exercise of any civil or military right, nor be segregated in the militia, or in the public schools, because of religious principles, race, color, ancestry or national origin.

    How can a citizen be expected to defend his/her property or life and limb if one cannot keep an bear arms for that protection thereof?

    Could the right to keep an bear arms be such a natural God given right, that the legislatures simply did not see the need to include the right in the NJ Constitution?

    I equate that omission to the natural God given right to "travel", Hence, the term travel is not listed in the US Constitution however most reasonable minded folks will agree that we all have a God given right to "travel" in our pursuit of life, liberty and happiness.

    Surly the good folks from NJ have Natural Rights and Equal Rights to protect themselves and their family and property against those that wise to do them ill will.

    My .02

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    From NJ state papers.

    Article 1

    RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES/NATURAL RIGHTS.

    1- All persons are by nature free and independent and have certain natural and unalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring,possessing, and protecting property, and of pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness
    You know, I wonder if anyone bought this up to the NJ Supreme Court. My interpretation (of the above) is that people in NJ have unalienable rights to defend life and protect property wherever they may be. Also "acquiring,possessing, and protecting property" should mean to be able to buy a means a protection, possess it anywhere to defend life and property without waiting 3 months for some damned FID card or references needed to obtain the card/P2P before one can exercise those unalienable rights.

    I never saw that part of the NJ Constitution until now. I only saw the interpretation from that site during my research about the 1947 ConCon. Sounds like someone needs to investigate this further. Alas, I am not a lawyer...just a researcher. But that paragraph is interesting to say the least.

    .
    I am not a lawyer, I study the history of gun control laws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest View Post
    You know, I wonder if anyone bought this up to the NJ Supreme Court. My interpretation (of the above) is that people in NJ have unalienable rights to defend life and protect property wherever they may be. Also "acquiring,possessing, and protecting property" should mean to be able to buy a means a protection, possess it anywhere to defend life and property without waiting 3 months for some damned FID card or references needed to obtain the card/P2P before one can exercise those unalienable rights.

    I never saw that part of the NJ Constitution until now. I only saw the interpretation from that site during my research about the 1947 ConCon. Sounds like someone needs to investigate this further. Alas, I am not a lawyer...just a researcher. But that paragraph is interesting to say the least.

    .
    Hi Midwest

    I would also argue that one should be able to pick an chose the object of their choose so as to defend ones life and property to the very best of their ability. While the pen may be mightier then the sword in the court of law, I would prefer my .357 magnum to my mont blanc pen when the bad guys are trying to inflict bodily harm unto myself or my loved ones.

    The fact that the term " keep an bear arms" is excluded from the NJ Constitution, seems Unconstitutional, of and in itself.

    My .02

    Regards.
    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

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    Has anyone tried to introduce legislation to have the Second Amendment added to the NJ Constitution? Can it be done without an Constitutional Convention? Or can one argue that since the NJ Constitution left the Second Amendment out of the Constitution, the current NJ Constitution is therefore invalid?

    .
    Last edited by Midwest; 06-07-2014 at 08:52 AM.
    I am not a lawyer, I study the history of gun control laws.

  17. #17
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    I had family that lived in that horror of a state. My impression was that the people were very loyalist. To the state. Also, tons of foreigners. Foreigners love their tyranny. They came from tyrannies and the thought of bearing arms being a right is unthinkable.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  18. #18
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    There are (6) six States that do not have provisions in their State Constitution regarding the right to "keep an bear arms"

    1- NY
    2- NJ
    3- Iowa
    4- Maryland
    5- Minnesota
    6- California


    How can the 2A to our US Constitution be excluded from the six states constitutions mentioned? How were they able to pull off such a coo?
    Its like the 2A doesn't even exist in or for these States. They simply erased Article 2 from the US Constitution...

    May be some law scholars could chime in on this topic. I'm confused as to how they pulled it off.

    TIA

    Best regards

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    There are (6) six States that do not have provisions in their State Constitution regarding the right to "keep an bear arms"

    1- NY
    2- NJ
    3- Iowa
    4- Maryland
    5- Minnesota
    6- California


    How can the 2A to our US Constitution be excluded from the six states constitutions mentioned? How were they able to pull off such a coo?
    Its like the 2A doesn't even exist in or for these States. They simply erased Article 2 from the US Constitution...

    May be some law scholars could chime in on this topic. I'm confused as to how they pulled it off.

    TIA

    Best regards

    CCJ
    It's not that it's excluded, it's that in their state constitutions they never put in a similiar amendment. The 2A is applicable against all of these states via McDonald v. Chicago. They're anti-gun (less so for Iowa and Minnesota), so they have a lot of laws that would need to be challenged, and that will take years.

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