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Thread: police arrest active duty sergeant for open carry

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    police arrest active duty sergeant for open carry

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/12/po...rt-hood-video/

    since handgun open carry is not allowed in texas, i'm hoping the owners will allow this topic even though it involves firearms of unmentionable length
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 04-13-2013 at 06:32 PM.
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    Regular Member Damiansar-15's Avatar
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    Rick Perry

    I recall a gun talk radio interview that Rick Perry did where he was questioned on open carry in Texas. He mentioned that they have open carry for rifles and that seems to work out well for Texas, e.g. concealed pistol carry coupled with open carry rifle. This is a proof-point that it is definitely not working out well for Texas citizens. I wonder if the Governor is aware of this and if he would do anything about it???

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Was it open carry or "rudely displaying?" The claim is the latter, whatever that means.

    I got through page one of the article, and there was still no more information about this claim that he was "rudely displaying" the rifle. Did they ever actually cover the actual "news" in what looked like it would just be three pages of sensationalism? Anybody read the whole thing because they had nothing better to do?
    Last edited by MAC702; 04-14-2013 at 04:59 PM.
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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    This happens to be the proximate location of the 1991 Luby's massacre (Killeen, TX).

    These two Barney Fife's who apparently " Don't care !" what Texas law is need to be scheduled for separation from the Temple PD.

    Two tours in Iraq, and this soldier is subjected to this crap !

    Citizens of Temple - prepare to donate to this SGT's retirement fund.

    I know of some beautiful Hill Country ranches near Fredericksburg in the $ 3 million range that the SGT might be interested in checking out after this all gets settled. HEEEEE- HAW!

    Thank you for your service to this country Sgt.

    Sounds like time for a "meet & greet " in Temple.

    Where in the H--- is Texas coming up with LEO's like these guys ?

    Did they come from Kalifornia ?

    We need to inundate the Temple PD with comments about LAW ENFORCEMENT officers that " DON'T CARE " what TEXAS LAW is.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 04-14-2013 at 05:29 PM.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Was it open carry or "rudely displaying?" The claim is the latter, whatever that means.

    I got through page one of the article, and there was still no more information about this claim that he was "rudely displaying" the rifle. Did they ever actually cover the actual "news" in what looked like it would just be three pages of sensationalism? Anybody read the whole thing because they had nothing better to do?
    I read all three pages. I found the additional two pages interesting, to say the least. They go on about the attourney and similar incidents that have happened in the past. They basically paint the prosecutor as a bad guy and tell stories about his ridiculous "Screw the law, I'm going to persecute (not prosecute) gun carriers" attitude. At least, that's what I got out of it.

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    You would think prosecutors in Texas would be careful who they were ******* off these days.

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    Bell County still has the same attitude towards GIs that they had in 1951 when Dad was there, in 1984 when I was there, and in 2009 when my son was there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    You would think prosecutors in Texas would be careful who they were ******* off these days.
    Fort Hood needs their own CSM Zak Carey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/12/po...rt-hood-video/

    since handgun open carry is not allowed in texas, i'm hoping the owners will allow this topic even though it involves firearms of unmentionable length
    Open Carry while hunting IS legal.

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    Regular Member njkennelly's Avatar
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    police arrest active duty sergeant for open carry

    Can anyone post a link where we can view the entire video?

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    Quote Originally Posted by njkennelly View Post
    Can anyone post a link where we can view the entire video?
    Here is Video, How sick it is.
    http://vimeo.com/62032686

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Bell County still has the same attitude towards GIs that they had in 1951 when Dad was there, in 1984 when I was there, and in 2009 when my son was there.
    Almost all towns near military bases like to highlight that they don't want the GIs about.

    All COs tell their people not to get drunk in town or cause other disruptions.

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    Regular Member njkennelly's Avatar
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    police arrest active duty sergeant for open carry

    I live in NV and am very good friends with someone from Temple. We are having a debate about wether the LEOs had the legal right to disarm Grisham who at the time was legally carrying his firearm. Can someone please point me to something that states the LEOs DID NOT have that right (I am truly hoping that someone can).

    The only statute I can find is this:

    GC §411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
    (a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license holder.
    (b) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may temporarily disarm a license holder when a license holder enters a nonpublic, secure portion of a law enforcement facility, if the law enforcement agency provides a gun l ocker where the peace officer can secure the license holder's handgun. The peace officer shall secure the handgun in the locker and shall return the handgun to the license holder immediately after the license holder leaves the nonpublic, secure portion of the law enforcement facility.
    (c) A law enforcement facility shall prominently display at each entrance to a nonpublic, secure portion of the facility a sign that gives notice in both English and Spanish that, under this section, a peace officer may temporarily disarm a l icense holder when the license holder enters the nonpublic, secure portion of the facility. The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height. The sign shall be displayed in a clearly visible and conspicuous manner.
    (d) In this section:
    (1) “Law enforcement facility” means a building or a p ortion of a
    building used exclusively by a l aw enforcement agency that employs peace officers as described by Articles 2.12(1) and (3), Code of Criminal Procedure, and support personnel to conduct the official business of the agency. The term does not include:
    (A) any portion of a building not actively used exclusively to conduct the official business of the agency; or
    (B) any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk, walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
    (2) “Nonpublic, secure portion of a l aw enforcement facility” means that portion of a law enforcement facility to which the general public is denied access without express permission and to which access is granted solely to conduct the official business of the law enforcement agency.
    Last edited by njkennelly; 04-16-2013 at 12:54 AM.

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    That provision ONLY applies to a "license holder." i.e., a person issued a Concealed Handgun License. There is no where in Texas law that allows disarmament other then this provision.

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    h

    TX has a provision that if you are carrying in a manor calculated to alarm you can be charged with a crime. I have yet to see anything with the word "rude" or any form of it. Sounds like BS muscle flexing to me.

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    Regular Member DetroitBiker's Avatar
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    Grisham was booked for resisting arrest. He then made bond and retained an attorney.
    His charge was later reduced from resisting arrest to the class B misdemeanor of “interrupting, disrupting, impeding and interfering with a peace officer while performing a duty.”

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/12/po...#ixzz2QgXCmdey

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Step 1 in "We f***ed up" damage control is reducing the charges. You can't just drop them, because people might get the wrong idea.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member pawn99's Avatar
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    Anyone kno the outcome?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pawn99 View Post
    Anyone kno the outcome?
    Post #16 is the latest. Don't expect news any time soon... the same DA and PD took 8 months to drop charges against another soldier who was perfectly legally carrying in a hospital.

    This guy is using the same lawyer. I'd expect the same outcome.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    money is POURING in for this guys defense fund. it was at just about $23000 when i checked this morning and now it's over $24000. he was only asking for $11000
    http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/2n...l-defense-fund
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    Regular Member TRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkennelly View Post
    Can anyone post a link where we can view the entire video?
    Unfortunately it doesn't show the entire encounter.

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    Found it here all 13 mins of it, you will toss something at your screen
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv9O-NmBxCA

    The very second those officer stopped him from leaving of his own free will, that stop becomes illegal w/o probable cause. Am I not right?

    http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/m...ssue_id=122005


    Florida v. J.L., 529 U.S. 266, 120 S. Ct. 1375, 146 L.Ed.2d 254 (2000).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_v._J.L.
    The United States Supreme Court held in a unanimous opinion by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg that the search was unreasonable. That the tip accurately identified the defendant and that the allegation of the firearm ultimately proved to be accurate was insufficient to justify the seizure. For a completely anonymous tip to justify even a "stop and frisk" of a suspect pursuant to Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), it must be "suitably corroborated" with both the accurate prediction of future activity of the subject[1] and accurate in its assertion of potential criminal activity. The tip given in the J.L. case was only sufficient to identify the subject and nothing more, making the police reliance upon it unjustified.

    The Court further declined to create a standard "firearms exception" to the Terry doctrine, It was unlawful but the man was detained, as was recognized in some Federal circuits, stating, among other things, that "Such an exception would enable any person seeking to harass another to set in motion an intrusive, embarrassing police search of the targeted person simply by placing an anonymous call falsely reporting the target's unlawful carriage of a gun . . ."[2]
    Last edited by zack991; 04-17-2013 at 04:43 PM.
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    Regular Member Eeyore's Avatar
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    Story and video also available at http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...ree-cj-grisham
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    Found it here all 13 mins of it, you will toss something at your screen
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv9O-NmBxCA

    The very second those officer stopped him from leaving of his own free will, that stop becomes illegal w/o probable cause. Am I not right?
    The police only need RAS to detain someone, not probable cause.... And the problem with RAS is that it is ill defined and leaves a lot up to the officers judgement in the heat of the moment. Also another issue in these kinds of situations is that the victim doesn't initially know what information the police officer has and whether the police officer has valid RAS even though nothing illegal has taken place.

    For instance: Lets assume the victim was doing nothing wrong, just walking down the road with a rifle on his chest. He passes a house and from the window someone sees him walking with the rifle. That person calls the police and says he saw a man walking down the road with a rifle. The dispatcher asks what kind of rifle, the guy says he thinks it is an "assault weapon". The dispatcher asks what the victim was doing with the rifle and the witness says he had another young man with him and appeared to be forcing the young man to march ahead of him at gun point. The dispatcher reports all this to the responding officer, who then approaches as if it is an active crime is taking place. The officer technically has RAS already based on the witness report and therefore can legally approach and disarm while investigating further. Florida vs J.L. doesn't apply in this kind of situation because the witness reported what would definitely be a crime if his statement is accurate, not something that may or may not be.

    Of course in this case the officer effectively said all they had before the initial contact was MWAG, which is neither PC nor RAS. The proper response would be none at all, or worst case, to observe from a distance and determine if the individual has likely committed, is committing, or seems as if he is about to commit, a crime. The officers position is also entirely ruined by the fact that he walked right up to the victim and tried to disarm him without drawing his own firearm. He can't validly claim he felt a man with a rifle was a true threat if he was approaching alone and didn't draw his own firearm, at least not in my opinion, and it would be a very easy sell to a jury too.
    Last edited by arentol; 04-18-2013 at 04:42 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post

    The very second those officer stopped him from leaving of his own free will, that stop becomes illegal w/o probable cause.
    And what's worse, is what they did to his son.

    I caught an interview with C.J. Wednesday morning on Beck (I don't usually listen, but it happened to be on the radio). C.J. said that he told his son in front of both officers to not answer any questions without his mom present. At that point, one cop took C.J. to jail, and the other took his son home.

    But-- when he got him home, he told then son that he wouldn't let him out of the car until he answered his questions, without a parent or a lawyer.


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