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Thread: Aldie/South Riding

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    Aldie/South Riding

    Hey i have been lurking for awhile and I was wondering if anybody had anything to say about the south riding Aldie area when it comes to OC. and i can only OC since i am 18.

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    Welcome to OCDO!

    Regarding South Riding/Aldie, that's Loudoun County, and things should be fine.

    However, you can always run into a cop who didn't get the message that OC is legal and not suspicious, or just doesn't like OC. So, always carry your voice-recorder and know both the law on where you can and can't carry, and your rights--4A (Fourth Amendment/search and seizure), 5A (Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination).

    I understand the Sheriff of Loudoun County is on pretty good terms with Ed Levine, one of our moderators, so I'm thinking the area should be pretty tame from a law-enforcement angle, but there is always that one chance you'll meet a deputy who didn't get the message or wants to screw around. Northern VA cops weren't naturally tolerant of OCers--we had to remind them. Part of that was the threat and actuality of carry voice-recorders, knowing the law better than the police, and being willing to fight back with formal written complaints, and showing up at in large numbers at City Council and Board of Supervisor meetings.

    So, don't get all relaxed. Stay on your toes a little bit.

    Did I mention always carrying a voice-recorder? I can say with great confidence that not one OCer has ever had a police encounter and later said, "Boy, I'm glad I left my voice-recorder at home."
    Last edited by Citizen; 04-14-2013 at 10:41 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Age

    Im not too terrible concerned with the whole OC but i have a good feeling if they found out I was 18 it may turn into a LEO convention

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_James View Post
    Im not too terrible concerned with the whole OC but i have a good feeling if they found out I was 18 it may turn into a LEO convention
    If they find out you're 18, that should be the closing ceremony of the convention.

    The problem might arise that they first seize you temporarily for investigation because they suspect, from your appearance, that you are too young to carry a handgun. Once they see your ID document and your age, they should be letting you go. I'm not saying it is legal to seize you in the first place; I'm merely elaborating that once they find out you are 18 and legal to carry a handgun, that should be the end of the seizure.

    We've discussed the legal angles of seizing a young-looking man a few times. I don't recall that we were ever able to arrive at a clear answer. Certainly, I can't think of any court opinions that make it illegal for a cop to do it.

    Your best defense is to know your rights cold and exercise them. To start, check out the FlexYourRights videos at the link below. And, always carry a voice-recorder. Especially if you look like you're only 14 or 15.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ources-Here!!&
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_James View Post
    Im not too terrible concerned with the whole OC but i have a good feeling if they found out I was 18 it may turn into a LEO convention
    Kep calm. Keep recording till they violate the law by assaultng you, committing an illegal battery and steal your property - or they just leave your recorder alone. Disagree politely with things they say you know to be wrong. Do not get into a yelling match with them, and if they wish to persue what you believe is illegal activity do not argue/resist - that's what courts and attorneys are for. There's no need to add resisting arrest to the situation.

    As for things turning into a convention - if that were going to happen it would most likely start well before they discerned your age.

    Give thought to attending somwe of the OC meet-ups in your area. Ed usually has an OC breakfast on Sundays and an OC dinner about once a month. Meeting other OCers is good. Getting to know how they have handled any encounters in the past is helpful. Getting practice OCing helps make it part of your everyday life, just like walking around in shoes. (Hey, Ed - where are the stickies about breakfasts and dinners?)

    Breathe in. Breathe out. Relax.

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    If they find out you're 18, that should be the closing ceremony of the convention.

    Your best defense is to know your rights cold and exercise them. To start, check out the FlexYourRights videos at the link below. And, always carry a voice-recorder. Especially if you look like you're only 14 or 15.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ources-Here!!&
    Well atleast i do not look younger than 18. And I am defiantly going to try and make as many as I can so that I can finally meet some like minded people. And i have seen that video many, many times
    Last edited by Mike_James; 04-15-2013 at 12:35 AM.

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    I OC around South Riding all the time when its hot.

    Maybe you've seen me on my motorcycle or at the McDonalds!

    I'm only 21 but I look young. No one has hassled me yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyeo098 View Post
    I OC around South Riding all the time when its hot.

    Maybe you've seen me on my motorcycle or at the McDonalds!

    I'm only 21 but I look young. No one has hassled me yet.
    I actually have not seen anyone open carry at that McDonald's. Maybe one day this summer i may happen to run into you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_James View Post
    Well atleast i do not look younger than 18. And I am defiantly going to try and make as many as I can so that I can finally meet some like minded people. And i have seen that video many, many times
    Oh, we take all kinds. Defiant, timid, jolly, submissive, you name it.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Oh, we take all kinds. Defiant, timid, jolly, submissive, you name it.
    Ok, Awesome I have a friend how is on the border of buying a handgun to OC. Another question is what type of clothes to you folks usually wear when you OC? I have heard to always wear business clothes while i know people that do not care what they were when they OC. Any thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_James View Post
    Ok, Awesome I have a friend how is on the border of buying a handgun to OC. Another question is what type of clothes to you folks usually wear when you OC? I have heard to always wear business clothes while i know people that do not care what they were when they OC. Any thoughts?
    Yes. Definitely wear clothes.

    Speedos with cowboy boots is out. So is tacti-cool stuff. Otherwise, wear whatever.

    But, don't mix and match. For example, no french cuffs and sandals.

    Oh, and if you like leather holsters, you need two. One brown, one black. A gentleman never wears brown leather after 6:00pm.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_James View Post
    Ok, Awesome I have a friend how is on the border of buying a handgun to OC. Another question is what type of clothes to you folks usually wear when you OC? I have heard to always wear business clothes while i know people that do not care what they were when they OC. Any thoughts?
    Since we promote OCing as one goes about their normal everyday business, it would stand to reason that whatever one wears normally should be acceptable. The members/users here are representative of all walks of life: blue collar, professional, college students, military, retirees, male & female - a very diverse group of individuals.

    While clothes do not make the man (or woman), we try as a rule to keep our act cleaned up - it is a public reaction/impression thing. Whether we conscientiously intend to or not, we are all representative of how the public perceives us.

    Someone recently suggested tongue in cheek that another OCer should cover his legs (he wear shorts almost year round) - the man in question has the metabolism that allows that and is most frequently seen with his young children when out and about - that alone raises his positive public imagine several notches. He takes his responsibilities very seriously, yet is has non-aggressive demeanor.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Since we promote OCing as one goes about their normal everyday business, it would stand to reason that whatever one wears normally should be acceptable. The members/users here are representative of all walks of life: blue collar, professional, college students, military, retirees, male & female - a very diverse group of individuals.

    While clothes do not make the man (or woman), we try as a rule to keep our act cleaned up - it is a public reaction/impression thing. Whether we conscientiously intend to or not, we are all representative of how the public perceives us.
    So, it would be bad to were political shirts and such?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_James View Post
    So, it would be bad to were political shirts and such?
    Well, I wouldn't go around wearing a Million Mom March t-shirt while OCing; but otherwise I can't see the harm in wearing a political t-shirt.

    The neater you dress, the better the impression, but really there is no requirement for neatness or politeness in the Bill of Rights. It kinda depends on why you are OCing. If you're trying to draw converts to self-defense rights, that's one thing. If you're just OCing because its your right, that's a little different.
    Last edited by Citizen; 04-16-2013 at 03:12 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_James View Post
    So, it would be bad to were political shirts and such?
    No not necessarily bad at all. I'd avoid T-shirts with bad language, but have seen many with pro 2A messages, pro self-defense, founding father quotes, and in support of party affiliation/candidates.

    Since I OC virtually 24/7 wherever I can, my style of dress will vary greatly in accordance with what I am doing - from dirty jeans and a ragged out t-shirt when working in the yard, to polo shirt and khaki pants on a special night out. Almost never where a coat & tie any more except at funerals and weddings...then I CC out of deference to the principals - it is not the time for politicking, not my party.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    My impression is that the people who live in that area tend to be addle-brained touchy-feely types who think they're "liberals", but are actually fascists. An unfair generalization and prejudice on my part, obviously. But I think you're much more likely to have "man with a gun doing nothing in particular" calls in that part of the county. But then, I'm in Fauquier (where the billboard at the border with Pr. Wm. on Rt 29 says, "We jus' a buncha farmers, but we like bidniss.", or something like that).
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    My impression is that the people who live in that area tend to be addle-brained touchy-feely types who think they're "liberals", but are actually fascists. An unfair generalization and prejudice on my part, obviously. But I think you're much more likely to have "man with a gun doing nothing in particular" calls in that part of the county. But then, I'm in Fauquier (where the billboard at the border with Pr. Wm. on Rt 29 says, "We jus' a buncha farmers, but we like bidniss.", or something like that).
    Well thank you for letting me know. I will let you folks know how my first encounter with someone goes. I'm a bit nervous and excited at the same time.

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    I'm in Woodbridge, Prince William county but I have friends in South Riding. My impression is that it is more of a Liberal area but I could be wrong. First time out OCing can be a little nevus but I assure you that after a couple times that will go away. I will say that I have yet to confront a LEO so I have not been around the block like others here. If you need a partner for an outing, let me know, I can zip up there...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnM15A View Post
    I'm in Woodbridge, Prince William county but I have friends in South Riding. My impression is that it is more of a Liberal area but I could be wrong. First time out OCing can be a little nevus but I assure you that after a couple times that will go away. I will say that I have yet to confront a LEO so I have not been around the block like others here. If you need a partner for an outing, let me know, I can zip up there...
    Ya that sounds good. I also take college classes in manassas. Maybe one day we could meet up around there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_James View Post
    Ya that sounds good. I also take college classes in manassas. Maybe one day we could meet up around there.
    Mike, the wife and I frequent the Longhorn restaurant on Liberia, that would be a great place but we can meet up anywhere... I'm retired so I am fairly free most times with heads up.

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    South riding GFSZ

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyeo098 View Post
    I OC around South Riding all the time when its hot.
    How do you go about the whole GFSZ situation because there are some schools to get to and from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_James View Post
    How do you go about the whole GFSZ situation because there are some schools to get to and from.
    That's a federal law, someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the US Supreme Court rule in Mack & Printz vs US in 1997 that "The majority arrives at the conclusion that allowing the Federal government to draft the police officers of the 50 states into its service would increase its powers far beyond what the Constitution intends".

    In other words you're going to need a federal LEO to enforce a federal gun free zone, it's out of the jurisdiction of local & state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    That's a federal law, someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the US Supreme Court rule in Mack & Printz vs US in 1997 that "The majority arrives at the conclusion that allowing the Federal government to draft the police officers of the 50 states into its service would increase its powers far beyond what the Constitution intends".

    In other words you're going to need a federal LEO to enforce a federal gun free zone, it's out of the jurisdiction of local & state.
    If you could give a cute that would be awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_James View Post
    If you could give a cute(sic) that would be awesome.
    Actually he did by citing the relevant case = Mack & Printz vs US

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/95-1478.ZO.html
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_James View Post
    If you could give a cute that would be awesome.
    That would be "cite" and he did. The CFSZ is one of the most odious, repugnant, and confusing laws that is out there trying to affect what people who choose to carry have to think about. Search around on this or any other gun website and you're going to find a lot of discussion on this mess of a statute. It is one of the two best reasons to acquire a CHP so that you can avoid any pretense, or otherwise, of running afoul of this bastardization of a law.

    Best thing to do is not to worry about it, make sure you don't break any other laws or cause a commotion, and just go about your business as usual. Perhaps someone else can chime in on this, but I don't recall having ever seen or heard of anyone in Virginia being charged with violating this federal law.

    And by the way, we're glad you choose to "come out of the closet" and join us. Good to have you here.
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