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Wife looking for employment in WISCONSIN - SO I HAVE 2A QUESTIONS

TENmm

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Joined
Apr 17, 2013
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4
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Arizona
  1. IS WISCONSIN A SHALL ISSUE STATE?
  2. Is open carry allowed? If YES, is open carry limited to permit holders only?
  3. Carrying inside RESTAURANTS that have alcohol license, LEGAL?
  4. INSIDE CAR - Open carry legal? Concealed carry legal?
  5. Is WISCONSIN CCW a real WEAPON permit, OR STRICTLY HANDGUN?
  6. HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES - WHATS THE CURRENT LAWS THERE?
  7. SHORT BARREL RIFLES - CLASSS III - LEGAL?
  8. CCW HANDGUN - limit to calibers, or is any caliber legal?
  9. CCW CARRY - LIMITED TO ONE GUN?
  10. CLASS III, SILENCERS LEGAL?
  11. CARRYING INSIDE STORES WITH POSTED "NO GUNS" - LEGAL OR IS IT A CIVIL MATTER? (Civil matter in KY).
  12. CARRYING IN BANK, LEGAL? (it is LEGAL in New Mexico).
  13. WHATS THE WI STATE DPS NUMBER?
THIS WAS POSTED TO ASK ABOUT LAWS CURRENT TO APRIL 17 2013
 

Interceptor_Knight

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Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
  1. IS WISCONSIN A SHALL ISSUE STATE? Yes
  2. Is open carry allowed? Yes.. subject to restrictions such as GFSZ/Class B Liquor/Public Building unless you are a licenseeIf YES, is open carry limited to permit holders only?No
  3. Carrying inside RESTAURANTS that have alcohol license, LEGAL? Not without License...Wis. Stat. § 941.237.
  4. INSIDE CAR - Open carry legal? Concealed carry legal? Concealed with License only and you are still subject to GFSZ while driving
  5. Is WISCONSIN CCW a real WEAPON permit, OR STRICTLY HANDGUN? Pistols/Electric Weapons/(legal) Knives/Billy Clubs only..
  6. HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES - WHATS THE CURRENT LAWS THERE? No Laws
  7. SHORT BARREL RIFLES - CLASSS III - LEGAL? NFA according to Federal Law
  8. CCW HANDGUN - limit to calibers, or is any caliber legal? ANY Caliber
  9. CCW CARRY - LIMITED TO ONE GUN? Any number of handguns. No CCW of rifles allowed
  10. CLASS III, SILENCERS LEGAL? NFA according to Federal Law.. No CCW SBR/SBS. You are not prohibited from CCW with a supressor.
  11. CARRYING INSIDE STORES WITH POSTED "NO GUNS" - LEGAL OR IS IT A CIVIL MATTER? (Civil matter in KY). Legal (Trespassing)
  12. CARRYING IN BANK, LEGAL? (it is LEGAL in New Mexico). Not prohibited unless posted
  13. WHATS THE WI STATE DPS NUMBER? WI DOJ # is.. (608) 266-1221
THIS WAS POSTED TO ASK ABOUT LAWS CURRENT TO APRIL 17 2013
http://www.doj.state.wi.us/sites/default/files/dles/ccw/ccw-faq.pdf
 
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pkbites

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[*]Is open carry allowed? If YES, is open carry limited to permit holders only?
You can open carry without a permit, unless you are in a school zone. Then you need a CCL to open carry. Ridiculous, huh?

[*]INSIDE CAR - Open carry legal? Concealed carry legal?
Per the Wisconsin Attorney Generals Office open carry in a vehicle without a CCL is legal. But if you drive through a school zone you have to have a concealed carry license, even to OC.

You can be in a school zone if you have a CCL, you just can't go on the actual school property. This includes to pick up your kids, having a gun uncased in your car. Like I said, ridiculous!

Oh, and contrary to popular belief, the law does not exempt off duty cops. I always get funny looks from fellow officers when I tell them that if they're carrying off duty near a school and don't have a CCL they are committing a crime. It's true!
 
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Law abider

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You can open carry without a permit, unless you are in a school zone. Then you need a CCL to open carry. Ridiculous, huh?

Yes it is ridiculous but the federal law has a loophole so that allows the states can override that requirement. So if a federal agent does stop me and says that I am OCing in a GFSZ, I can show him the WI CCL license.
 

MKEgal

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Carrying inside RESTAURANTS that have alcohol license, LEGAL?
Here's 941.237 Carrying handgun where alcohol beverages may be sold and consumed
http://docs.legis.wi.gov/statutes/statutes/941/III/237
In general it's a crime. Exceptions applicable to regular citizens:
(cx) A licensee... or an out-of-state licensee... if the licensee or out-of-state licensee is not consuming alcohol on the premises.

(f) The possession or use of a handgun at a public or private gun or sportsmen's range or club.

(g) The possession or use of a handgun on the premises if authorized for a specific event of limited duration by the owner or manager of the premises
All of this assumes that the business isn't posted "keep out, evil gun-owner".
With permission from the owner or manager, you're allowed to carry openly even without a carry license.
With a carry license, you're allowed to carry openly or concealed, but may not drink alcohol.

No matter where you are, it's illegal to be "materially impaired" or "under the influence" while in possession of a firearm.
See 939.22(42) for the definition of UtI:
"Under the influence of an intoxicant" means that the actor's ability to operate a vehicle or handle a firearm or airgun is materially impaired...
The only hard & fast definition of "materially impaired" I've been able to find is 0.08% BAC, same as DUI. That's not to say that someone couldn't be arrested or even convicted at a lower BAC.

INSIDE CAR - Open carry legal? Concealed carry legal?
Concealed is legal with a license. According to what the law says, open is legal with or without a license, but there are some people who still treat OC as cc if it's in a car.

Here's 167.31 Safe use and transportation of firearms and bows
http://docs.legis.wi.gov/statutes/statutes/167/31
Applicable parts:
(b) Except as provided in sub. (4), no person may place, possess, or transport a firearm, bow, or crossbow in or on a vehicle, unless one of the following applies:
167.31(2)(b)1.1. The firearm is unloaded or is a handgun.
167.31(2)(c)
(c) Except as provided in sub. (4), no person may load a firearm, other than a handgun, in a vehicle
Problems occur because there is old case law (from 1994 - before our cc law, and before RKBA was part of the WI Constitution) saying that any firearm in the passenger area of a car is automatically concealed just because it's in the car.
Cases which have occurred since our cc law was put into effect have contradicted this old ruling, and the ruling was stupid to begin with (see Walls below).

Also see 941.23 Carrying concealed weapon
http://docs.legis.wi.gov/statutes/statutes/941/III/23
From the notes:
The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant's person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon's presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
State v. Keith (1993)

A handgun on the seat of a car that was indiscernible from ordinary observation by a person outside, and within the immediate vicinity, of the vehicle was hidden from view for purposes of determining whether the gun was a concealed weapon under this section.
State v. Walls (1994)

Here's where you can search the WI statutes:
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/RSB/STATS.HTML
 

WalkingWolf

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Yes it is ridiculous but the federal law has a loophole so that allows the states can override that requirement. So if a federal agent does stop me and says that I am OCing in a GFSZ, I can show him the WI CCL license.
Any cases of the above happening? And if you are only talking Federal GFSZA antique firearms are exempt, even without a permit.
 

MKEgal

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pkbites said:
Per the Wisconsin Attorney Generals Office open carry in a vehicle without a CCL is legal.
Is this in the DOJ FAQ now? When was that opinion issued? It would have helped me a bleep of a lot!

But if you drive through a school zone you have to have a concealed carry license, even to OC.
+1 Or it can be unloaded & encased.

You can be in a school zone if you have a CCL, you just can't go on the actual school property. This includes to pick up your kids, having a gun uncased in your car.
But if it's unloaded & encased, it's legal to be on school grounds. (Going by what the law says.)

Law abider said:
the federal law has a loophole so that allows the states can override that requirement.
Federal and state law both provide for a licensee being armed in the magical 1000' bubble.
Federal law allows a licensee being armed on the grounds or in the school. WI doesn't.

WI "GF"SZ law http://docs.legis.wi.gov/statutes/statutes/948/605/2
(b) Paragraph (a) [crime to have a gun on the grounds or within 1000' of a school] does not apply to the possession of a firearm by any of the following:948.605(2)(b)1m.1m. A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii).
948.605(2)(b)1r.1r. Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).
948.605(2)(b)2m....
948.605(2)(b)3.3. That is not loaded and is:
948.605(2)(b)3.a.a. Encased; or
948.605(2)(b)3.b.b. In a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle
Federal "GF"SZ law http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922
The parts which WI adopted:
(i) on private property not part of school grounds
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract
(vi) LEO
(vii) crossing school grounds to access hunting, if OK'd by school
 

pkbites

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Citation please.

Here is the published case law. (https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/document/statutes/ch. 941)



Your cite is old and since November 1, 2011, mostly obsolete.

My cite is that Assistant Attorney General Dave Perlman stated, in a training workshop that was put on around the state after Act 35 was signed in to law, that non-licensed open carry in a vehicle was legal. It was then discussed as to what constituted open carry in a vehicle (above the door handle, observable by someone immediately outside the car).

I know a video of a few of these workshops is floating around the internet somewhere. I've been trying to find it.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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There is no WI law which says you can Open Carry in a car without a license. It is legal to have an unloaded long gun or a loaded pistol in your vehicle because there is no law prohibiting it. It is illegal to have a long gun or a pistol if it is not unloaded and encased if you are in a GFSZ unless you are a licensee. It is illegal to have a concealed long gun in your vehicle. It is illegal to have a concealed pistol in your vehicle without a license. Case law still stands which states concealed as being hidden from ordinary view. If your handgun is on your hip and you are sitting in your car, it is hidden from the view of an officer approaching you on the driver side and may be hidden from the view of an officer approaching from the passenger side. If it is on your left hip and you are sitting down in the car, no officer is going to be able to see it from any vantage point. Just because 167 does not prohibit you from having an uncased and loaded handgun in your car does not mean that you may carry it in a manner which hides it from ordinary view. You can not make a broad statement that Open Carry is legal if your definition includes in a holster on your belt while you are sitting in your car if the view is obstructed for an officer approaching and looking into your car.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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Your cite is old and since November 1, 2011, mostly obsolete.

My cite is that Assistant Attorney General Dave Perlman stated, in a training workshop that was put on around the state after Act 35 was signed in to law, that non-licensed open carry in a vehicle was legal. It was then discussed as to what constituted open carry in a vehicle (above the door handle, observable by someone immediately outside the car).

I know a video of a few of these workshops is floating around the internet somewhere. I've been trying to find it.

There is nothing you just posted which contradicts this case law. Why are you objecting to it if it agrees with what the Assistant AG stated?
 

WalkingWolf

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There is no WI law which says you can Open Carry in a car without a license. It is legal to have an unloaded long gun or a loaded pistol in your vehicle because there is no law prohibiting it. It is illegal to have a long gun or a pistol if it is not unloaded and encased if you are in a GFSZ unless you are a licensee. It is illegal to have a concealed long gun in your vehicle. It is illegal to have a concealed pistol in your vehicle without a license. Case law still stands which states concealed as being hidden from ordinary view. If your handgun is on your hip and you are sitting in your car, it is hidden from the view of an officer approaching you on the driver side and may be hidden from the view of an officer approaching from the passenger side. If it is on your left hip and you are sitting down in the car, no officer is going to be able to see it from any vantage point. Just because 167 does not prohibit you from having an uncased and loaded handgun in your car does not mean that you may carry it in a manner which hides it from ordinary view. You can not make a broad statement that Open Carry is legal if your definition includes in a holster on your belt while you are sitting in your car if the view is obstructed for an officer approaching and looking into your car.

ONLY if it is a firearm that has been in interstate commerce, and then only a firearm, it does not include antique firearms. I don't live in WI but in most states what is not against the law, is legal. Not only that if a firearm, IMO, can be seen it clearly is not concealed, and if concealed and there is no RAS a officer cannot do a search. Wasn't there a member who was charged with concealed and exonerated, BECAUSE the officer could SEE the gun?
 

Interceptor_Knight

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Concealed is legal with a license. According to what the law says, open is legal with or without a license, but there are some people who still treat OC as cc if it's in a car.

Here's 167.31 Safe use and transportation of firearms and bows
http://docs.legis.wi.gov/statutes/statutes/167/31
Applicable parts:
Problems occur because there is old case law (from 1994 - before our cc law, and before RKBA was part of the WI Constitution) saying that any firearm in the passenger area of a car is automatically concealed just because it's in the car.
Cases which have occurred since our cc law was put into effect have contradicted this old ruling, and the ruling was stupid to begin with (see Walls below).

No old case law states that "any firearm in the passenger area is automatically concealed.".. What you have stated before is that "above the window line" case law is outdated and not relevent. Apparently, the Assistant AG does not share your opinion.
My cite is that Assistant Attorney General Dave Perlman stated, in a training workshop that was put on around the state after Act 35 was signed in to law, that non-licensed open carry in a vehicle was legal. It was then discussed as to what constituted open carry in a vehicle (above the door handle, observable by someone immediately outside the car).

I know a video of a few of these workshops is floating around the internet somewhere. I've been trying to find it.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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ONLY if it is a firearm that has been in interstate commerce, and then only a firearm, it does not include antique firearms. I don't live in WI but in most states what is not against the law, is legal. Not only that if a firearm, IMO, can be seen it clearly is not concealed, and if concealed and there is no RAS a officer cannot do a search. Wasn't there a member who was charged with concealed and exonerated, BECAUSE the officer could SEE the gun?

Good luck carrying a firearm which has not been in interstate commerce (including the individual parts). Even so, you may beat the rap (if you are lucky after spending considerable $$) but you will not beat the ride. Your opinion on what "can be seen" is irrelevant. Case law states that it must not be hidden from ordinary view by someone outside of the vehicle in the immediate vicinity.
Regarding MKEgal, that court on that day did not convict her. That is all we know. This has zero influence on any future cases.
 

protias

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No old case law states that "any firearm in the passenger area is automatically concealed.".. What you have stated before is that "above the window line" case law is outdated and not relevent. Apparently, the Assistant AG does not share your opinion.

And yet drugs on the seat are in plain sight. :banghead:
 

WalkingWolf

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Good luck carrying a firearm which has not been in interstate commerce (including the individual parts). Even so, you may beat the rap (if you are lucky after spending considerable $$) but you will not beat the ride. Your opinion on what "can be seen" is irrelevant. Case law states that it must not be hidden from ordinary view by someone outside of the vehicle in the immediate vicinity.
Regarding MKEgal, that court on that day did not convict her. That is all we know. This has zero influence on any future cases.

AGAIN I ask, how many arrests and prosecutions in WI has there been for GFSZA, and how many times has there been a defense of a gun not being in interstate commerce been defeated?

Her case has more bearing then your assumptions without the least bit of proof.

Concealed weapon is a weapon that is concealed, meaning if you can see it(not just printing) it is not concealed. Otherwise MKEgal might not have prevailed.
 
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Interceptor_Knight

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Concealed weapon is a weapon that is concealed, meaning if you can see it(not just printing) it is not concealed.
....
The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant's person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon's presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
the weapon was concealed, or hidden from ordinary view, meaning it was indiscernible from the ordinary observation of a person located outside and within the immediate vicinity of the vehicle.
After both reviewing briefs submitted by the parties and upon hearing arguments on the issue, the trial court concluded that the handgun was concealed within the meaning of the statute. The court determined that regardless of whether the police could see the black handgun lying on the red front seat upon inspecting the vehicle, the handgun was concealed to "ordinary observation" . Thus, the trial court found Walls guilty because the handgun was concealed and violative of § 941.23, STATS.
"If the weapon is hidden from ordinary observation it is concealed. Absolute invisibility to other persons is not indispensable to concealment. The test is, was it carried so as not to be discernible by ordinary observation.
 
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Law abider

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