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Wife looking for employment in WISCONSIN - SO I HAVE 2A QUESTIONS

Interceptor_Knight

Interceptor_Knight

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Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
WalkingWolf said:
So a gun on the dash not seen by a police officer across town is concealed? ...
Click to expand...
Which alternate universe do you live in where across town is the immediate vicinity of the car? I am not aware of GFSZ worm holes here in WI.
WalkingWolf said:
... And again I ask how many people in WI have been arrested for GFSZA without supporting charges?
Click to expand...
There are no GFSZ weapons checkpoints in WI if that is what you are asking...
The typical person would be suspected of doing something else first and have their car searched...
 
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WalkingWolf

WalkingWolf

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Interceptor_Knight said:
Which alternate universe do you live in where across town is the immediate vicinity of the car? I am not aware of GFSZ worm holes here in WI.
There are no GFSZ weapons checkpoints in WI if that is what you are asking...
The typical person would be suspected of doing something else first and have their car searched...
Click to expand...

Does the bill allow me to place, possess, or transport a loaded, unencased
handgun in a vehicle?
As described above, the bill does allow the placement, possession, and transportation of handguns in a
number of different types of vehicles, regardless of whether a person is a licensee. However, if a person
is not a licensee, the handgun cannot be concealed in the vehicle and, as noted above, Wisconsin courts
have taken a broad view of what constitutes the concealment of a firearm in a vehicle.

This is from a State website. What you are claiming if a gun cannot be seen without looking in the vehicle it is concealed. I say that is BS because that could be the case if someone is a mile away. It is just dumb. Now I have no doubt that prosecutors may have been successful in some cases, and by the quote above not in others, also show by our own members arrest and aquital. I ask you again for the case numbers and names associated so I can tell if these cases form case law that must be followed by all courts. And I ask again that you made a claim of people arrested or possibility of arrest for GFSZA by a federal officer and have not shown even one such arrest in WI.
 
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WalkingWolf

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Nightmare said:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_c...4&q=190+Wis.+2d+65&hl=en&as_sdt=4,50&as_vis=1
Click to expand...

Well that is screwed up, I suggest that WI residents put a mount on the roof of their vehicle and carry in that manner, or maybe a suction cup holster on the window. As far as GFSZA the federal law, I have seen nothing to indicate that the feds are setting up roadblocks to search for weapons, or have I seen anything suggesting that arrests are being made other than tack on to other charges.
 
Interceptor_Knight

Interceptor_Knight

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WalkingWolf said:
Does the bill allow me to place, possess, or transport a loaded, unencased
handgun in a vehicle? .
Click to expand...

No, it does not. There are absolutely ZERO Wisconsin Statutes which "allow" you to do so. None.
WI Statute 167.23 Does NOT prohibit you from placing, possessing or transporting a loaded handgun or an unloaded long gun inside of the vehicle.
.
.
Unless you are a licensee, WI Statute 948.605 explicitly prohibits you from placing, possessing or transporting a handgun or long gun inside a vehicle or otherwise unless it is unloaded and encased if you are in a GFSZ.
.
.
.
Unless you are a licensee, WI Statute 941.23 explicitly prohibits you from concealing a dangerous weapon including a handgun or long gun inside a vehicle or otherwise. The opinion of our State Department of Justice including our State Attorney General and Assistant Attorney General is that if it is not observable by someone immediately outside of the vehicle, it is hidden and therefore, concealed..(generally above the door handle, etc)
 
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WalkingWolf

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Interceptor_Knight said:
No, it does not. There are absolutely ZERO Wisconsin Statutes which "allow" you to do so. None.
WI Statute 167.23 Does NOT prohibit you from placing, possessing or transporting a loaded handgun or an unloaded long gun inside of the vehicle.
.
.
Unless you are a licensee, WI Statute 948.605 explicitly prohibits you from placing, possessing or transporting a handgun or long gun inside a vehicle or otherwise unless it is unloaded and encased if you are in a GFSZ.
.
.
.
Unless you are a licensee, WI Statute 941.23 explicitly prohibits you from concealing a dangerous weapon including a handgun or long gun inside a vehicle or otherwise. The opinion of our State Department of Justice including our State Attorney General and Assistant Attorney General is that if it is not observable by someone immediately outside of the vehicle, it is hidden and therefore, concealed..(generally above the door handle, etc)
Click to expand...

That was not my question, that question came from the state website, with the answer. Remember laws are not made to make actions or things legal, they are made to make things illegal. If there is no law that does or does not allow you to do so then it is legal. Soooo please stop with that carp.
 
Interceptor_Knight

Interceptor_Knight

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WalkingWolf said:
That was not my question, that question came from the state website, with the answer. Remember laws are not made to make actions or things legal, they are made to make things illegal. If there is no law that does or does not allow you to do so then it is legal. Soooo please stop with that carp.
Click to expand...

Beware of poorly written FAQs.... They are typically dumbed down for those too lazy to read the Bills/Statutes. You should know better.... The bill eliminated a prohibition which was in place before it.

Although they are the exception, some laws grant you explicit authority to do things and preempt other laws being passed to the contrary.

My statements regarding which specific statute prohibits you from carrying a handgun in a vehicle if it is hidden from ordinary view is factual.

Does the bill allow me to place, possess, or transport a loaded, unencased handgun in a vehicle?
As described above, the bill does allow the placement, possession, and transportation of handguns in a number of different types of vehicles, regardless of whether a person is a licensee. However, if a person is not a licensee, the handgun cannot be concealed in the vehicle and, as noted above, Wisconsin courts have taken a broad view of what constitutes the concealment of a firearm in a vehicle.
Click to expand...

4 Wisconsin courts have interpreted the term “concealed” broadly with respect to firearms in vehicles, holding that a firearm in a vehicle is concealed if it is indiscernible from the ordinary observation of a person located outside and within the immediate vicinity of the vehicle.
Click to expand...
 
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WalkingWolf

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Interceptor_Knight said:
Beware of poorly written FAQs.... They are typically dumbed down for those too lazy to read the Bills/Statutes. You should know better.... The bill eliminated a prohibition which was in place before it.

Although they are the exception, some laws grant you explicit authority to do things and preempt other laws being passed to the contrary.

My statements regarding which specific statute prohibits you from carrying a handgun in a vehicle if it is hidden from ordinary view is factual.
Click to expand...

That says cannot be concealed, NOTHING about NOT concealed. Duhhhhhh!

Again what is not illegal IS legal. Unless you can show us the laws in WI for farting, or breathing, or sleeping.
 
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Interceptor_Knight

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For instance, in State v. Walls, 190 Wis. 2d 65 (Ct. App. 1994), the Court of Appeals recognized that the placement, possession, or transportation of unloaded and encased firearms in vehicles as permitted by § 167.31 (2) (b), Stats., does not constitute going armed with a concealed weapon. .
Click to expand...

Another poorly written answer. 167.31(2)(b) does not permit you to do anything, it simply does not prohibit you from doing it.
 
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Interceptor_Knight

Interceptor_Knight

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WalkingWolf said:
That says cannot be concealed, NOTHING about NOT concealed. Duhhhhhh!

Again what is not illegal IS legal. Unless you can show us the laws in WI for farting, or breathing, or sleeping.
Click to expand...

Correct. It is legal to have a loaded handgun in a vehicle without a license if it is NOT concealed because there is nothing prohibiting it. The fact remains that it is generally considered concealed if it is below the window line.
 
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Interceptor_Knight

Interceptor_Knight

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Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
WalkingWolf said:
... Unless you can show us the laws in WI for farting....
Click to expand...


947.01 Disorderly conduct. (1) Whoever, in a public or
private place, engages in violent, abusive, indecent, profane, boisterous,
unreasonably loud or otherwise disorderly conduct under
circumstances in which the conduct tends to cause or provoke a
disturbance is guilty of a Class B misdemeanor.
Click to expand...
......
 
Interceptor_Knight

Interceptor_Knight

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WalkingWolf said:
So then don't have it below the window line. Duhhhhhh!
Click to expand...

That is what we have been talking about....

WalkingWolf said:
....Not only that if a firearm, IMO, can be seen it clearly is not concealed, and if concealed and there is no RAS a officer cannot do a search. ..
Click to expand...

If he sees it while he is poking his head inside of the vehicle while speaking to you about your speeding, tail light, etc, you may be cited for CCW.
 
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WalkingWolf

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Interceptor_Knight said:
If the firearm is a handgun, it isn't, so what is your point?
Click to expand...

My point is you keep going on about concealed and making the claim a handgun cannot be carried loaded in a vehicle. When in fact it can, and not only that a handgun that has not been in interstate commerce or a antique handgun can be carried in a vehicle loaded in a GFSZ. You blew a gasket with red font. You also went on about federal agents making stops and I asked you to document this, you did not. I asked you to document any arrests for a firearm not in interstate commerce you did not. You are clearly trying to imply that the op will get arrested the moment he gets in his vehicle with a loaded gun without a permit he will carried off to GITMO. Which is not the case. Forgot you also implicated that for actions to be legal they have have laws making them legal. That just is not true.

He has to make decisions for himself but they should not be made on bovine excrement. I take it you are a current LEO and are getting your panties in a bunch. Too bad! I will give on the gun on seat, I think it is silly, but apparently you do not, that is where I believe you are a current LEO.

ARE YOU?
 
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WalkingWolf

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Interceptor_Knight said:
There is no WI law which says you can Open Carry in a car without a license. It is legal to have an unloaded long gun or a loaded pistol in your vehicle because there is no law prohibiting it. It is illegal to have a long gun or a pistol if it is not unloaded and encased if you are in a GFSZ unless you are a licensee. It is illegal to have a concealed long gun in your vehicle. It is illegal to have a concealed pistol in your vehicle without a license. Case law still stands which states concealed as being hidden from ordinary view. If your handgun is on your hip and you are sitting in your car, it is hidden from the view of an officer approaching you on the driver side and may be hidden from the view of an officer approaching from the passenger side. If it is on your left hip and you are sitting down in the car, no officer is going to be able to see it from any vantage point. Just because 167 does not prohibit you from having an uncased and loaded handgun in your car does not mean that you may carry it in a manner which hides it from ordinary view. You can not make a broad statement that Open Carry is legal if your definition includes in a holster on your belt while you are sitting in your car if the view is obstructed for an officer approaching and looking into your car.
Click to expand...
The bolded above is where you messed up, you said nothing about above the window, you claimed it was illegal because there was no law making it legal. As a LEO you should know better.
 
Interceptor_Knight

Interceptor_Knight

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WalkingWolf said:
The bolded above is where you messed up, you said nothing about above the window, .
Click to expand...
I did not mess up. I stated the same thing you did. Read the text which you just quoted. It is legal to open carry in a vehicle without a license so long as you are not in a school zone because it is not prohibited. There is no law which states that Open Carry is legal. It is legal because there is no law stating that it is illegal.

WalkingWolf said:
My point is you keep going on about concealed and making the claim a handgun cannot be carried loaded in a vehicle. ... You are clearly trying to imply that the op will get arrested the moment he gets in his vehicle with a loaded gun without a permit he will carried off to GITMO.
Click to expand...

I am not implying anything. You are the one giving him odds of being caught instead of just sticking to the law. You bring up RAS, etc etc.
He asked a question and I gave him direct answers. The "safe" thing to do is to open carry above the window line and only outside of a GFSZ unless you are a licensee or an out of state licensee as defined in WI Statute chapter 175.
 
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