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Thread: Cops enter home W/O Warrant; seize guns -- conviction REVERSED

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Cops enter home W/O Warrant; seize guns -- conviction REVERSED

    This seems pretty significant. Now, it's from the Court of Appeals; SCOVA could reverse. Still, pretty good:

    Defendant's refusal to submit to entry for a court-ordered home study did not support entry by police on any ground
    A home study had been ordered of defendant’s house. A social worker arrived to do it with two officers watching from a car. Defendant refused to permit the social worker to enter, and, from the officers’ perspective, he was getting agitated talking about it and would not let her enter. The police entry could not be justified on any exigency or community caretaking function.

    ...

    A jury convicted Parker Chad Ross of unlawfully possessing firearms after having been convicted of a felony. Ross argues on appeal that the trial court should have suppressed the evidence of his guilt because the police discovered the firearms in his residence without a warrant. We agree and reverse his conviction.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Outstanding, another ruling that protects citizens from unreasonable searches even when the citizen is a felon.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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  3. #3
    Fenix
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    Well you have to think about this.
    IMO, for a forum that wants to share with open minded people their right to carry a weapon OC or CC, this is not good press for guns period. Everyone involved is in the wrong. I know im going to get really bad flak for this but I rather his conviction be reversed and his guns be taken then letting him keep them. A felony is a serious criminal offense. I don't specifically root for this guy, obviously, but we're supposed to be the good guys with guns; even if the other good guys with guns severely mess up, we shouldn't cheer for the opposing team.
    Last edited by Fenix; 04-17-2013 at 10:40 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix View Post
    Well you have to think about this.
    For a forum that wants to share with open minded people their right to carry a weapon OC or CC, this is not good press for guns period. Everyone involved is in the wrong. I know im going to get really bad flak for this but I rather his conviction be reversed and his guns be taken then letting him keep them. A felony is a serious criminal offense. I don't specifically root for this guy, obviously, but we're supposed to be the good guys with guns; even if the other good guys with guns severely mess up, we shouldn't cheer for the opposing team.
    Where do you see he got his guns back? And because he is a felon who served his time does not make him a bad guy. Committing crime is what makes a bad person, since IMO the laws denying rights of a free person are unconstitutional he committed no crimes.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix View Post
    Well you have to think about this.
    For a forum that wants to share with open minded people their right to carry a weapon OC or CC, this is not good press for guns period. Everyone involved is in the wrong. I know im going to get really bad flak for this but I rather his conviction be reversed and his guns be taken then letting him keep them. A felony is a serious criminal offense. I don't specifically root for this guy, obviously, but we're supposed to be the good guys with guns; even if the other good guys with guns severely mess up, we shouldn't cheer for the opposing team.
    The 4th amendment is hardly the opposing team.

    But this should have been in another sub-forum ...

  6. #6
    Fenix
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Where do you see he got his guns back? And because he is a felon who served his time does not make him a bad guy. Committing crime is what makes a bad person, since IMO the laws denying rights of a free person are unconstitutional he committed no crimes.
    ^ What?
    I take back the part of him receiving the guns back.
    So the part of the law which says no felon should own a firearm, you don't agree with?
    Last edited by Fenix; 04-17-2013 at 09:05 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix View Post
    ^ What?
    I take back the part of him receiving the guns back.
    So the part of the law which says no felon should own a firearm, you don't agree with?
    You Do? Where is that written in the second amendment?
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
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    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
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  8. #8
    Fenix
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    I'm going by the Virginia code. (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-308.2)

    § 18.2-308.2. Possession or transportation of firearms, firearms ammunition, stun weapons, explosives or concealed weapons by convicted felons; penalties; petition for permit; when issued.


    I mean I'm assuming that's what you were talking about when you said "...the laws denying rights of a free person are unconstitutional he committed no crimes."

    I mean even if at this point he is a "free person" he is still a felon.
    Last edited by Fenix; 04-17-2013 at 09:17 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I am going by the US constitution, 2nd amendment "shall not be infringed" no where does it mention except for felons.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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  10. #10
    Fenix
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    Either way,
    Virginia law still matters.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix View Post
    Either way,
    Virginia law still matters.
    Not more than the US constitution.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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  12. #12
    Fenix
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Not more than the US constitution.
    You can say that all you want, but it still matters. Say it happened in Illinois (Which is drafting a CC permit system atm), No concealed and no open carry (except on private property). If you were to break that law you'd be arrested. Go through the motions of getting a lawyer, overturned or not, it's still against the law in that state.

    Either Way WalkingWolf,
    Me, you, and the rest of the people on here are on the same team.
    Last edited by Fenix; 04-17-2013 at 09:57 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix View Post
    You can say that all you want, but it still matters. Say it happened in Illinois (Which is drafting a CC permit system atm), No concealed and no open carry (except on private property). If you were to break that law you'd be arrested. Go through the motions of getting a lawyer, overturned or not, it's still against the law in that state.

    Either Way WalkingWolf,
    Me, you, and the rest of the people on here are on the same team.
    NO clearly we are not!
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  14. #14
    Fenix
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    NO clearly we are not!
    I can't tell if you're serious or not.
    Last edited by Fenix; 04-17-2013 at 10:30 PM.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    I do agree with WW, just because you are a felon you should have the same rights as any other citizen, if you have done your time

    but i am a bit confused, what crime did he commit? the court ruled in his favor.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix View Post
    I can't tell if you're serious or not.
    Yes I am serious, I support ALL of the constitution, and ALL citizens rights, not just what would be convenient for me. I am not a progressive.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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  17. #17
    Fenix
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    I do agree with WW, just because you are a felon you should have the same rights as any other citizen, if you have done your time

    but i am a bit confused, what crime did he commit? the court ruled in his favor.


    He was in possession of firearms, that was the whole problem; They entered without a warrant, Found the guns, then he was arrested. Hence the overturn of his original conviction.

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Yes I am serious, I support ALL of the constitution, and ALL citizens rights, not just what would be convenient for me. I am not a progressive.

    I wasn't trying to create a hostile debate I just assumed most people are open to hearing others opinions, But apparently this isn't the case for you. I also tried to be friendly. But anyways we all have the right to freedom of speech and I was just sharing my opinion.
    Last edited by Fenix; 04-17-2013 at 10:41 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix View Post
    He was in possession of firearms, that was the whole problem; They entered without a warrant, Found the guns, then he was arrested. Hence the overturn of his original conviction.




    I wasn't trying to create a hostile debate I just assumed most people are open to hearing others opinions, But apparently this isn't the case for you. I also tried to be friendly. But anyways we all have the right to freedom of speech and I was just sharing my opinion.
    I am giving you my opinion, I am not hostile, just honest. So anytime someone does not bow down and agree you assume they are hostile?
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  19. #19
    Fenix
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I am giving you my opinion, I am not hostile, just honest. So anytime someone does not bow down and agree you assume they are hostile?
    That's not what I was saying at all. But I try to avoid situations of calling people out, i'm done with this thread.

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    Regular Member ron73440's Avatar
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    I don't understand the problem, if a felon has done his time, there is no reason to keep him from owning weapons unless he is dangerous.

    If he is dangerous, why is he out of jail?

    The easier we accept the govt restricting rights, the easier it is for them to restrict our rights.

    IMO you can't defend only the rights that you like, you have to defend all of them if you are a true champion of liberty.
    What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron73440 View Post
    I don't understand the problem, if a felon has done his time, there is no reason to keep him from owning weapons unless .....
    Gun control has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with control.

    1 - make it so felons lose RKBA
    2 - make more and more crimes a felony
    3 - people who care about RKBA spend time/energy avoiding becoming felons instead of living/promoting RKBA
    4 - PROFIT!

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron73440 View Post
    I don't understand the problem, if a felon has done his time, there is no reason to keep him from owning weapons unless he is dangerous.

    If he is dangerous, why is he out of jail?

    The easier we accept the govt restricting rights, the easier it is for them to restrict our rights.

    IMO you can't defend only the rights that you like, you have to defend all of them if you are a true champion of liberty.
    Exactly!

    If a person is too dangerous to be walking around with a gun, then he is too dangerous to be walking around WITHOUT a gun!

    Short. Simple. True.

    The liberals are all over restoration of voting rights, I submit that an undeserved vote is FAR more dangerous than undeserved possession of a gun.

    TFred

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    FENIX i would suggest you thicken up your skin. we do debate things on here. just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean you should take your ball and go home

    back to OT. i would assume that even though his conviction of posstion of firearms by a felon was over turned, they would not have given his guns back. i wonder if he could have turned them over to a person able to own them , or did the state destroy them
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    FENIX i would suggest you thicken up your skin. we do debate things on here. just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean you should take your ball and go home

    back to OT. i would assume that even though his conviction of posstion of firearms by a felon was over turned, they would not have given his guns back. i wonder if he could have turned them over to a person able to own them , or did the state destroy them
    I would imagine they will destroy them, I wonder if they were by chance antique firearms in which case they were legal and should be returned to him.

    We have a case here where a man accident buried his daughter and niece with a backhoe. For some reason the police thought this was PC to confiscate his firearms in a illegal search of his home. They also found a pot plant, big deal. While it is awful what happened and if he is negligent he should be charged, but so far he has not been convicted of a crime and his rights were abridged.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 04-18-2013 at 12:38 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    I do agree with WW, just because you are a felon you should have the same rights as any other citizen, if you have done your time

    but i am a bit confused, what crime did he commit? the court ruled in his favor.
    The problem is not that he is an EX! felon, the problem is that he is a father who wanted some more 'face time' with his daughter.

    This required permission from the government for enhanced visitation privileges. Pursuant to their authority, Social Services precipitated this incident with a unannounced visit of the home for a so-called "home study" analysis:

    The JDR district court ordered the Lynchburg Department of Social Services (DSS) to conduct a “home study” of Ross and to report its findings to the court. See App. at 42. The order authorized an unannounced visit, but did not authorize the DSS social worker to enter Ross’s residence against his will.
    But wait, there's more:
    Prior to conducting the home study, the DSS social worker determined that Ross was a “convicted felon,”1 id. at 19, and suspected him of distributing marijuana. The social worker also obtained from an undisclosed source a photo of Ross holding what appeared to be an SKS rifle. Another photo showed Ross and one of his children together holding the same rifle.
    That right there probably prejudiced social services. As we have seen recently elsewhere (like NJ) God help you if you share your weapons with your own children.

    Social Services can often be a problem where your natural rights are concerned.

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