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911 Calls - Don't Dispatch If No Crime

WalkingWolf

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And let's not forget endangering citizens lives while officers are responding to call where there is no emergency and there is no crime. In THIS case the dispatcher should be held liable to the full extent of the law, if innocent citizens are hurt.
 

eye95

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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
More on qualified immunity: Read St. John v. McColley. Qualified immunity can be pierced, and the individual officers can be held liable for cash damages.

This case was an OCer who was unlawfully seized. The case was cited by the 4th Circuit in Black just a few weeks ago, so it has punch outside of New Mexico.
 

JediSkipdogg

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Sep 10, 2012
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139
Location
Batavia
Don't they give dispatchers tests in your area to see if they are competent enough to do the job? God forbid somebody is playing a flute and some citizen calls the police and you send the po po to see if a crime is being committed.

Yes they do give tests. And they also have policies and procedures that have been developed nationwide. If a citizen calls the police, send the police. FYI...my department policy is if someone calls to want to shake a police officer's hand, we dispatch the officer if one is available.


Sounds like you know the laws pretty well for a dispatcher who isn't trained in them.

What everyone is trying to say is that while that officer is tied up responding to a man eating lunch with a holstered firearm he is not available to respond to the 3 men who are robbing the local bank.

If your smart enough to be able to prioritize calls then your smart enough to know when no response is needed.

I know the law because I study it. I also work for a smaller department and do alot more than just dispatch. I also deal with the courts quite a bit for our department. So I see alot more than other dispatchers do in many other departments.

I understand what everyone is saying. I'm just saying the majority of dispatchers don't know what is or is not a crime. I've done the job for 8 years. Until about 5 years ago, besides underage alcohol (I previously worked campus security for 3 years) I had no clue about many laws. But you expect someone on the end of a phone to determine what a caller means. Why not hold the caller accountable? I actually see many cases of arrests all the way through. You'd be amazed at the number of suspect descriptions that look nothing like the suspect we arrest besides their clothing. Therefore, without seeing what is going on, it's hard to know how accurate the caller is.

I took a call today for a vehicle into the center wall of I-71, pretty hard hit. Checked on the cameras on I-71, nothing showing. Should I disregard or send an officer? Send an officer, cars gone. Should we charge the caller for a false report?

Package on your front porch delivered by UPS when you didn't order anything. What's the crime? Send the police and possible bomb squad? Or totally disregard?

Backpack next to a garbage can at a football game. What's the crime? Send the police or totally disregard? No crime, so disregarding.

Elementary school calls of a MWAG walking into their lobby in a business suit I'll disregard. No crime right? After all, most likely a police officer since he's in a suit so until I prove it's not a police officer, I have to hold off dispatching. Right?

There's alot I'd love to not dispatch. There's alot that I've dispatched and seen it turn out totally different than what I thought it was. Without someone with experience and expertise having their eyes on the reason of the call, we will never know the outcome. And the first time the outcome is wrong and the tapes are played to find out 911 was called, well, that'll be the end of that person's job and the department.

So, if someone is willing to pay my salary the rest of my life and my pension after I could retire, I'll gladly never dispatch a MWAG call or a suspicious package call or a man standing on the road taking pictures of the bank, etc. Whatever you want me to disregard, I'll gladly not dispatch. Just sign the paper accepting full liability for me. I'll have it drafted up tomorrow.
 
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joanie

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..
So, if someone is willing to pay my salary the rest of my life and my pension after I could retire, I'll gladly never dispatch a MWAG call or a suspicious package call or a man standing on the road taking pictures of the bank, etc. Whatever you want me to disregard, I'll gladly not dispatch. Just sign the paper accepting full liability for me. I'll have it drafted up tomorrow.

I gather your a dispatcher on 911 calls. Let me ask you a question. If someone calls (from their home) on a sunday morning, in extreeme pain, and asks for an ambulance to take them to the hospital, would you instesd of sending an ambulance, send police? lets say these cops without consent came into the house, into the lady's bedroom, twisted her off the bed and stood on her back. Would the dispatcher be responsable for that? What if the police later denyed ever being there, would there be a record that they were? How would I request this record?
 

JediSkipdogg

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Sep 10, 2012
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139
Location
Batavia
So, if someone is willing to pay my salary the rest of my life and my pension after I could retire, I'll gladly never dispatch a MWAG call or a suspicious package call or a man standing on the road taking pictures of the bank, etc. Whatever you want me to disregard, I'll gladly not dispatch. Just sign the paper accepting full liability for me. I'll have it drafted up tomorrow.

I gather your a dispatcher on 911 calls. Let me ask you a question. If someone calls (from their home) on a sunday morning, in extreeme pain, and asks for an ambulance to take them to the hospital, would you instesd of sending an ambulance, send police? lets say these cops without consent came into the house, into the lady's bedroom, twisted her off the bed and stood on her back. Would the dispatcher be responsable for that? What if the police later denyed ever being there, would there be a record that they were? How would I request this record?

Well, for us, police are sent with every amulance run. Actually, you want an ambulance, you get...1 fire truck, 1 ambulance, 1 police car. If the police are busy that day, they may log and not respond. That however is an officer and supervisor call.

Is there a record? I can't say for every department, but for us, there is the record of the call received (recorded), record of the computer entry in dispatch x2 (one dispatch for fire and one dispatch for police.) If the fire is dispatched, at least if one of our ambulances responds (staffing levels are being cut in fire big time and mutual aid more heavily used lately) then the ambulance also has recording on it at all times. Some departments are going that way to 1) analzye response/ready times and 2) solve liability issues since there is a huge increase in medical/fire vehicle accidents. Since all departments are suppose to have updated software (cell phone GPS technology won't work on outdated systems), they should all have who was dispatched, time of arrival, disposition, etc.

As for the dispatcher being liable, don't see why they would assuming they are following department guidelines. If their guidelines say send a police car if the person solely is requesting a ride to the hospital and not an immediate medical need, then sure. A city about 5 miles from ours does that. The police officers on the road are also the firefighters and EMTs. Depending on the call, an officer may respond back to the station to pick up the ambulance to respond to the scene while a second officer responds directly to the scene. If the ambulance isn't obviously needed from the call, they may transport in the back of a police car.

How do you get the record? You have to find the information for the 911 center that took the call. Find their non-emergency number and find out their policy for requesting information. That's the easiest way to start.
 

papa bear

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Jul 25, 2010
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mayberry, nc
Carrying a handgun in a holster openly displayed IS legal in this state. If it is not a crime, it is not a crime. In my county discharging a firearm is not a crime, it is that simple. How did porky pig say it? "Th-Th-That's all folks!"

Actually in my state holding a handgun in hand in Krogers would be GATTOP. Where were we talking about brandishing?

actually WOLF, it is just the opposite. in VA it is brandishing if you are holding the gun in your hand (displaying). there is a case where someone that pointed his finger at someone, while armed, is brandishing (he was acquitted). in NC you must meet the four conditions for GTTTOTP for it to apply. of course they can still arrest you for it

like i said i have no problem with them sending a LEO, just as long as he don't take it to himself to harass the carrier, that is not breaking the law.
now, lets say though that someone calls a man with a gun and they are heading in to rob a place. of course the dispatcher should find out if there are problems with the person. there is a difference between a man just eating his lunch and some BG doing bad
 

Chris 45LC

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Aug 25, 2012
Messages
41
Location
Ohio
We learned this week that there is a big difference between seeing an unattended backpack and a person wearing a gun in a holster. Police should be called for the backpack...There is no question about that. However, a citizen just carrying a gun in a holster, going about normal business is not against the law in Ohio. One simple question from from the 911 operator should be enough to determine if there is a threat and an officer should be called. If the answer is anything other than just carrying a gun in a holster, then yes, officers should be dispatched. But if the person is just going about their normal business with a firearm on their hip, officers should not be dispatched. Pulling a gun from a holster and holding it in a public place such as Kroger is brandishing and LEO should be called...no matter what the law is. All of this is just a matter of common sense. Yes, I agree that many Ohioans would not know that open carry is legal and that the public does need to know this in order to cut down on 911 MWAG calls.
 

JediSkipdogg

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Sep 10, 2012
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Location
Batavia
Most ridicules claim I have ever heard!:shocker:


Decision made between the Hamilton County Fire Chief's Association and the Hamilton County Police Association. Cincinnati doesn't do it, but I believe the other 42 departments in Hamilton County all do.

And yes, I agree. Just like not sure why on a simple lift assist run a squad and truck is sent. It's all standards decided on the higher ups and dispatch just automatically does it because our computers tell us too.
 
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eye95

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eye this is still an open forum and if you don't like what we talk about i think you should apply for the moderator's job

This is just a suggestion. I am not a moderator, just a regular in the Ohio forums because I now live here.

I can tell you that you won't find me in the NC forums, trying to convert discussions into being about Ohio law. I am merely asking you for the same courtesy when visiting the forum of a State other than yours. Thank you.
 

WalkingWolf

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North Carolina
This is just a suggestion. I am not a moderator, just a regular in the Ohio forums because I now live here.

I can tell you that you won't find me in the NC forums, trying to convert discussions into being about Ohio law. I am merely asking you for the same courtesy when visiting the forum of a State other than yours. Thank you.

Excuse me? YOU have been in the NC forums as well as other state forums. Buzz off!

From the Illinois forum;

I would love to see the combination of those who hate carry with those who love Liberty defeating every proposal so that, on June 9, there is no law against carry in IL!

Today just drips with irony!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

From the Virginia forum;

The only "limit" on a right is when it interferes with the rights of another. And, in that case, it is not a right, because there is no right to infringe on the rights of another.

Oft cited is the shouting of "Fire!" in a crowded theater as a limit on the 1A. It is not a limit on the 1A to say that one may not do so. To make such a shout has the reasonably expected effect of causing a panic in which some will be injured, violating their rights.

The only limits on the right to carry would be limits on behavior that would interfere with the rights of others, such as randomly shooting the damned thing off or pointing it at folks for no good reason. Then again, that is not a limitation on the right. Prohibiting such would be limiting the ability to violate the rights of others.

Warner's position that some limitations on the right are justified is moronic. No limitations on the right can be justified, only limitations on behaviors that would violate the rights of others.

Warner is one of these folks who claim to support the 2A without whom we could well do.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

From the California forum;

How many places are you going to post this?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 
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eye95

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And in how many of those did I turn the discussion into one about Ohio law?

Reading is fundamental.

I said nothing about not visiting other State forums. Let me refresh folks on what I did say:

eye95 said:
I can tell you that you won't find me in the NC forums, trying to convert discussions into being about Ohio law.

Moving on. Rational people will consider my request, complying or not as is their right. I don't wish to argue further with irrational and dishonest posts.
 
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WalkingWolf

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North Carolina
And in how many of those did I turn the discussion into one about Ohio law?

Reading is fundamental.

I said nothing about not visiting other State forums. Let me refresh folks on what I did say:



Moving on. Rational people will consider my request, complying or not as is their right. I don't wish to argue further with irrational and dishonest posts.

COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Cite or don't paraphrase other poster's comments.
 
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eye95

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I scoured this entire thread and cannot find any statement remotely close to supporting your claim. Unless you can quote eye95 verbatim I suggest you offer an apology.

Thank you. However, I have decided that a gentlemanly relationship with that poster is impossible. Even if he apologized, I am done with him. I shall deal with him only as I would deal with a troll.

The simple fact of the matter is that he lied about me. You have documented that lie. It is in the admin's hands--as will be all future violations on his part. They will decide the appropriate course of action.

Again, thanks. It's good to know that others see what he did.

On edit: I note with gratitude that John (one of the site owners) read the subject post and found that it did not fully and correctly represent what I said.
 
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Brian D.

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Cincy area, Ohio, USA
Decision made between the Hamilton County Fire Chief's Association and the Hamilton County Police Association. Cincinnati doesn't do it, but I believe the other 42 departments in Hamilton County all do.

That isn't the way it happens in the town I work for, and at least one or two others across Hamilton County I'm a little familiar with. Maybe according to a piece of paper the chiefs signed that's the way it's supposed to work, but not so much out in the field.

Not taking you to task for making the statement by the way.
 

JediSkipdogg

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Sep 10, 2012
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Location
Batavia
That isn't the way it happens in the town I work for, and at least one or two others across Hamilton County I'm a little familiar with. Maybe according to a piece of paper the chiefs signed that's the way it's supposed to work, but not so much out in the field.

Not taking you to task for making the statement by the way.

Well, there are a few other dedicated fire emergency dispatch centers in Hamilton County (forgot about those)....

Hamilton County Communications Center
Cincinnati PD Communications Center
Amberly Valley Dispatch (now also serving Silverton and Deer Park Fire)
Northeast Communications Center (Loveland/Symmes)
Norwood Communications Center

Some reason I keep wanting to think there's another one with Reading, but not fully sure. I know Hamilton County and NECC (which cover the most) both dispatch a police with an EMS unit. It's the policy for those two dispatch centers. No, police can disregard. I would say we do "have fire advise" about 25% of the time and show up after the squad leaves another 25% of the time. We don't rush to squad runs unless absolutely needed.

Just wanted to throw that correction out there.
 

bellyfat

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May 28, 2012
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69
Location
north carolina
called myself

I also have heard of dispatchers fired, and every case was for a real emergency, not the case of a non crime. Harnett County does not, unless things have changed over the years, dispatch for MWAG, or even shots fired. It is legal to shoot a firearm in the County, and they will tell callers exactly that on the phone. I have had people come up to me and complain that Harnett dispatchers dissed them when they made these calls. They will take any information that is given them, if they have time, but it ends there. Had a guy from PA a few months back complain to me that Harnett would not send a deputy or animal control out for a loose dog, it is legal in the county for dogs to run loose.

hi wolf.
i made a shots fired call in lincoln county, nc and the sherrif deputy came out and investigated.
it was at night and very close to my house. and sounded like a high powered rifle.
yes it is illeagle to hunt deer at night, but nobody knows why the person fired a gun that night. it was only assumed it was a deer poacher.
 
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