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Thread: Mustang Library

  1. #1
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    Mustang Library

    My brother is new to OC and lives in Scottsdale. He went to the Mustang Library in Scottsdale today and noticed a new no weapons or firearms sign posted. Is public property pre-empted in Arizona?

    13-3108 F 3. is questionable in that regard.
    Last edited by carracer; 04-20-2013 at 09:14 PM.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Mustang Library

    All municipal buildings currently are allowed to post no carry of weapons signs. Thank Governor Jan Brewer for vetoing a AZCDL supported bill that would have stopped this nonsense a while back. This "not in our buildings" mindset of AZ public officials is plain bizarre to me, but currently it is the law in AZ??? Help AZCDL change this and join up.
    http://www.azcdl.org/html/membership.html



    Sadly even MI has better laws when it comes to carrying in public buildings. This is a picture of a large group I was in last year on our way to a a city commission meeting (30+) strong. To protest an illegal arrest of an open carrier. ETA the young man pictured in blue T-shirt above was found not guilty by a jury of all charges.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 04-21-2013 at 06:06 PM. Reason: ETA
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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Here's the link to the section of law the OP was speaking of if anyone cares to read it.

    http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/03108.htm
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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Arizona Revised Statutes (ARS)

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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    Depends if they provided safe secure storage that is Immediately accessible after exiting the location then they can ban weapons, if they do not provide storage then the sign is invalid

    13-3102.01. Storage of deadly weapons; definitions
    A. If an operator of a public establishment or a sponsor of a public event requests that a person carrying a deadly weapon remove the weapon, the operator or sponsor shall provide temporary and secure storage. The storage shall be readily accessible on entry into the establishment or event and allow for the immediate retrieval of the weapon on exit from the establishment or event.
    B. This section does not apply to the licensed premises of any public establishment or public event with a license issued pursuant to title 4.
    C. The operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event or the employee of the operator or sponsor or the agent of the sponsor, including a public entity or public employee, is not liable for acts or omissions pursuant to this section unless the operator, sponsor, employee or agent intended to cause injury or was grossly negligent.
    D. For the purposes of this section, "public establishment" and "public event" have the same meanings prescribed in section 13-3102.


    13-3102. Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions
    2. "Public establishment" means a structure, vehicle or craft that is owned, leased or operated by this state or a political subdivision of this state.

    3. "Public event" means a specifically named or sponsored event of limited duration that is either conducted by a public entity or conducted by a private entity with a permit or license granted by a public entity. Public event does not include an unsponsored gathering of people in a public place.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Mustang Library

    Good point David. However the Public library I go to is posted no weapons & has no storage, and the City hall has none, nor does the marshall's office or the sheriff's office....so they are getting away with it.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

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    So, what can be done at this point?

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Mustang Library

    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post
    So, what can be done at this point?

    Great question! I would suggest several things, but first let me explain a political point. AZCDL supported a bill that would have stopped this, the Governor vetoed it! Why, only she knows? Now to over-turn her veto - it takes a 2/3rds yea vote buy both state houses (senate/house of reps.). Which after the last election is not going to happen. What it really is in my humble opinion is a $$$ issue. Local / state -municipal building don't want to pay for the lockers the law says they must have. In reallity there is no penallty if they don't - so they don't. We need to:

    Support AZCDL http://www.azcdl.org/
    Write state reps & senators about this BS.
    Write our sometimes RINO Governor & let her know our issues with this.
    Take part in demonstrations like the one coming up on Saturday on the capitol lawn - so they know we mean what we say and do it. http://www.tactrain.net/
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 04-25-2013 at 04:15 PM.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post
    So, what can be done at this point?
    Show up at the County Supervisors or equivalent meeting. Write to the City attorneys office and get their position on it. Sue the library. Ignore the sign as it has no force of law. OC in the library with a friend with a camera.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

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    An update to the library. My brother stopped in a couple of days ago. "Went to the library today - told the guy at the desk that I frequently carry and if they had a lockbox or such to put a weapon in. He said he frequently OCs himself and YES they do indeed have a lock box. He was very nice and jovial about it and showed me where it was and how to go about asking to use it. All in all a very positive experience. So that's that I guess. I still need to dig up my recorder though.

    And, today was my first OC instead of CC. Got a few looks (at the gun, not me) but no big deal.

    U.S.A."

  11. #11
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix David View Post
    Depends if they provided safe secure storage that is Immediately accessible after exiting the location then they can ban weapons, if they do not provide storage then the sign is invalid
    Unfortunately, there is nothing in the statue that says the no firearms sign is invalid if the operator of the public building does not comply.

    If they don't have the lockers and ignore the law, you are still violating the law if you enter and can still be prosecuted. In court you can try and convince the judge (another State or County employee) that you are not guilty because the building operator did not comply with the law.

    One of the AzCDL-requested bills this year added language making the law invalid if the operator did not comply, but it did not survive the session.

    Fred

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