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Thread: Here's the problem w/this boston vid - guy does nothing to stop them

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    Here's the problem w/this boston vid - guy does nothing to stop them

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A5vf...ature=youtu.be

    He could have gone out and said "hey, get outta here" ... and then he is crying about it because he did not

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    The whole (over?)reaction from law enforcement to this has me very concerned. The fact that there isn't more outrage over this is disturbing. Clearly shows what the masses think of their rights. I understand that I wasn't there. I didn't have a group of militants knocking on my door asking to look around. I'm sure it was intimidating. And then they get an "impromptu parade" for their heavy handed tactics.

    I hope others were filming as well and there can be a serious national discussion of the extent to which the police may go to track down and capture a fugitive under the protections of our 4th amendment. Was martial law declared there? Do they even have the right to make people prisoners in their own homes?

    There was a picture on MSN of a heavily armored and armed vehicle with a whole military type squad hanging off it that had "Boston Police" painted on the front. The fact that ANY civilian PD has this kind of equipment scares me. That should be left for the National Guard; or don't give me a hard time when I want to acquire the same equipment!

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    This imposition of martial law without a formal declaration is troubling. It establishes a precent for future undeclared warfare within our communities.

    One thing always leads to another. Remember the Aurora, CO martial law executed within a block or two of a bank robbery about a year ago ? Citizens stopped in vehicles at gun-point because they happened to be " there".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendon .45 View Post
    The whole (over?)reaction from law enforcement to this has me very concerned. The fact that there isn't more outrage over this is disturbing. Clearly shows what the masses think of their rights.
    Bingo ... they don't care ... I've booted cops off my land during an "ongoing investigation" they cry about it but they leave

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    As I understand it the German people cheered the Nazis as they took their rights with jack booted thugs. IMO the gov clearly used this event as a training exercise for both the people and the police. Nauseating!
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Would someone please note for me where the 4th Amendment was violated?

    I could not tell if they went inside the garage or not, but there was no indication of the door being forced open.

    SCOTUS ruled many years ago that trash in cans on the street is fair game.

    Now, I probably would have said something to loudspeaker-guy, but that's me.

    For the record I agree that much of what took place was over-reaction and security theater, but I am trying real hard to find repeated egregious constitutional rights violations and keep coming up empty.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Would someone please note for me where the 4th Amendment was violated?

    I could not tell if they went inside the garage or not, but there was no indication of the door being forced open.

    SCOTUS ruled many years ago that trash in cans on the street is fair game.

    Now, I probably would have said something to loudspeaker-guy, but that's me.

    For the record I agree that much of what took place was over-reaction and security theater, but I am trying real hard to find repeated egregious constitutional rights violations and keep coming up empty.

    stay safe.
    I guess they were looking for bloody clothes in the trash cans, hopefully it wasn't the time of the month for anyone. Unless they actually thought he was in one of the trash cans.

    I also thought considering pressure cooker bombs were used how incredibly stupid it was of them to be flipping lids on trash cans. FBI intelligence standards must be slipping...
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 04-22-2013 at 12:18 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Maybe the residents didnt stop the police because they didnt want a murderous muslim terrorist roaming their neighboorhood with an assault rifle and pipe bombs ?

    Maybe the residents enjoy going to family sporting events like marathons without having their 8 yr old children blown to pieces by muslim terrorists ?

    Maybe the residents wanted the police to go catch these muslim terrorists and make the streets safer for peaceful people ?
    Sooo people let them go into their homes where they knew the guy was not? Oh yesum masta .. you may enter my house for a reason other then what you said.

    if people wanted to go to sporting events like a marathon w/o their kids from being blown up then they should fight for their 2nd amendment rights --- hoping the gov't can protect u worked out well this time ... the gov't does not care & they probably loved the opportunity to swarm a whole town

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    sooo people let them go into their homes where they knew the guy was not? Oh yesum masta .. You may enter my house for a reason other then what you said.

    If people wanted to go to sporting events like a marathon w/o their kids from being blown up then they should fight for their 2nd amendment rights --- hoping the gov't can protect u worked out well this time ... the gov't does not care & they probably loved the opportunity to swarm a whole town
    qft!
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member MatieA's Avatar
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    I'm thinking that if there had been more than a few people openly carrying sidearms at this event these guys would have been extremely nervous about hanging around, and there's even a chance that they would not have gone through with it. I don't allow cops to search my bags, or car, so why in the world would I allow them to search my home? If you know he's not there how does it make anyone safer to allow the cops to search?
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Would someone please note for me where the 4th Amendment was violated?

    I could not tell if they went inside the garage or not, but there was no indication of the door being forced open.

    SCOTUS ruled many years ago that trash in cans on the street is fair game.

    Now, I probably would have said something to loudspeaker-guy, but that's me.

    For the record I agree that much of what took place was over-reaction and security theater, but I am trying real hard to find repeated egregious constitutional rights violations and keep coming up empty.

    stay safe.
    Half a dozen armed guys banging on a door, supported by more on the street, including some armored vehicles would make anything think that any "request" by the armed men was an order being made under the color of law.

    It is absolutely analogous to being approached by numerous armed cops on the street. Without saying a word, the cops in that situation would be seen by the courts as seizing you. Cops don't have to demand anything for them to be exercising the authority of the State illegally. The level of force that they show is sufficient to turn the politest of requests into demands.

    This incident was the violation of the rights of every person in the area. And what galls me is that they just took it. The Whimper Heard 'round the World!

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Amazingly, I was pointed to this http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=219969 from a blog I check right after checking OCDO.

    Look! A list of very specific acts that were, in and of themselves, both egregious and violated the Constitutional rights of the citizens involved.

    Wish that sort of list had been here.

    stay safe.
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    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Re: Here's the problem w/this boston vid - guy does nothing to stop them

    Do we know for fact if any turned them away?

    I saw some footage on the news that looked as if people were being forced out of their homes during the search. I wondered if they had any warrant or if it was being done through some public safety.

    I would have told them to pound sand or get a warrant, but that's me.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Amazingly, I was pointed to this http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=219969 from a blog I check right after checking OCDO.

    Look! A list of very specific acts that were, in and of themselves, both egregious and violated the Constitutional rights of the citizens involved.

    Wish that sort of list had been here.

    stay safe.
    Thanks for the link to that blog, I am glad I am not the only one who feels as he does. The whole fiasco was huge blunder, not a victory. The terrorist won this one clearly. They successfully terrorized a whole city with simple pressure cookers.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Thanks for the link to that blog, I am glad I am not the only one who feels as he does. The whole fiasco was huge blunder, not a victory. The terrorist won this one clearly. They successfully terrorized a whole city with simple pressure cookers.
    Blog does summarize it very well ... he should make a FAIL vid on youtube ... people love watching that kinda stuff...

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LrbsUVSVl8

    A half-dozen men dressed in body armor, pointing fully automatic weapons in the general directions of innocent citizens and pounding (not pressing the door bell, not knocking, POUNDING) on a door and saying, "Please come out, please raise your hands over your head" cannot afterwards claim that the actions of the citizen were ""voluntary and not in any way coerced."
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 04-22-2013 at 01:57 PM.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    This country has been sliding into tyranny for a long time. Over the weekend I had a discussion with a close friend about this, and he made a very disturbing point.

    Boston: From the beginning, a key city in the fight for freedom in this country. It has turned into a state with some of the most liberty hating laws in the country, i.e. 2nd Amendment, 1st Amendment (http://www.rcfp.org/reporters-record.../massachusetts), and so on. And now, for all considerations, is the first major city to deploy troops, albeit FBI, state police, DHS, local police, and shut it down. It started there, and will end there.

    Some alternative media outlets are reporting over 200 homes were unlawfully entered and searched. Most of the law abiding were forced at gunpoint to leave their homes. There are reports of legally owned firearms being seized, and so on, and so on.

    This, in my gravest opinion, was a travesty put on by our own government, as a test for the real deal. The president may not have pushed the button, and there may have been two terrorists who did this, but our .gov allowed this to happen. Which makes them as guilty as the bombers themselves.

    If we do not do something soon, this will end badly for the United States and its citizens. You all saw the video, and you all know the outcome. The police did not enact martial law to hunt for an alleged terrorist. They did it to train us. To let us know who they believe is in control. This is of course my opinion, and does not reflect the common thought of any other member here at OCDO. Good luck to you all.
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Would someone please note for me where the 4th Amendment was violated?

    I could not tell if they went inside the garage or not, but there was no indication of the door being forced open.

    SCOTUS ruled many years ago that trash in cans on the street is fair game.

    Now, I probably would have said something to loudspeaker-guy, but that's me.

    For the record I agree that much of what took place was over-reaction and security theater, but I am trying real hard to find repeated egregious constitutional rights violations and keep coming up empty.

    stay safe.
    Well let's see......

    Federal agents in military garb and large numbers approach the home. That's within constitutional contraints.

    The MOMENT they entered the curtilage of the home without either a WARRANT or CONSENT (voluntary consent which is not able to be given facing such a massive show of force leaving us with only WARRANT as an option) they violated the constitution.

    The Supreme Court has consistently held the home to be THE MOST protected place under the fourth amendment. Unless the police are in "hot pursuit" and a couple of other "exceptions" (none of which fit this situation) they MUST obtain a warrant or consent. The Court has further been consistent in its findings and holdings that when the government uses massive shows of force to obtain acquiesence, it does not equal consent.

    Are you aware that if you have a warrant to arrest Joe, and you know Joe is in my home, you must obtain a warrant (or my consent) to enter my home and get Joe? Yep. Only if you were in hot pursuit at the time Joe entered can you enter my home to arrest him without my consent.

    As for loudspeaker guy.....He'd have gotten the response "under what authority" and I would NOT have opened my door without a warrant specifically naming the place to be searched and the items to be seized. If they kicked in my door without a warrant? Well I'm not saying but it would probably be very ugly.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LrbsUVSVl8

    A half-dozen men dressed in body armor, pointing fully automatic weapons in the general directions of innocent citizens and pounding (not pressing the door bell, not knocking, POUNDING) on a door and saying, "Please come out, please raise your hands over your head" cannot afterwards claim that the actions of the citizen were ""voluntary and not in any way coerced."
    +1 they did not say "pretty please".

    I wonder: has anyone filed a notice of trespass with their state and local governments yet? If not, victim status assured.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    <snip> Are you aware that if you have a warrant to arrest Joe, and you know Joe is in my home, you must obtain a warrant (or my consent) to enter my home and get Joe? Yep. Only if you were in hot pursuit at the time Joe entered can you enter my home to arrest him without my consent. <snip>
    I would not bet a doughnut on this scenario. I would, if "you" (the cops I presume) did not know Joe was in your home.

    If Joe is in your home, and you know it, and the cops know it, and you then shout GET A WARRANT!!! I'll betcha a doughnut that; down goes your door, and you get arrested for harboring a "fugitive" or some such nonsense.

    I know, the suspected perp was not a fugitive, but he sure as heck was being pursued as if he were a fugitive.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I would not bet a doughnut on this scenario. I would, if "you" (the cops I presume) did not know Joe was in your home.

    If Joe is in your home, and you know it, and the cops know it, and you then shout GET A WARRANT!!! I'll betcha a doughnut that; down goes your door, and you get arrested for harboring a "fugitive" or some such nonsense.

    I know, the suspected perp was not a fugitive, but he sure as heck was being pursued as if he were a fugitive.
    I'm not saying they definitely wouldn't kick in the door but that if they did, they would be inviolation of the law. The person for whom they had the arrest warrant would find no legal relief but the homeowner would. Anything they might find would be excluded and civil action would almost certainly be sucessful. That's the "beauty" of our system....they can get away with bloody murder (sometimes litterally) and the citizen is hamstrung by a corrupt system that strips them of thousands of dollars while they are opposed by government agents using their own tax dollars against them.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
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