church carry denied

I once made a written request of my Virginia church congregation leadership for me to be allowed to CC during services, to protect my family or anyone else near me in case of an attack on the church property. I have had my permit for many years. They turned me down, telling me there are two other people who are allowed to carry, and that "they got it covered." I have no idea if they mean CC or OC, but I have never seen anyone carry yet. I know these supposed guards are not there every single week. Besides finding another church that allows members to not be sitting ducks, does anyone have any advice on how I might be able to better deal with this going forward? Don't really want to switch membership, but am really not satisfied at all with the situation as is. I'd like to hear from saved folks who have ideas how to look at this in a Christian way, that honors God. Macho bluster and bravado ain't it. Thanks.

Stop asking permission and CC anyway? If it's actually concealed worth a damn no one will be the wiser. Granted I don't know any of your state laws, nor if the building has a "no firearms sign". If it does and you live in a state where signs carry the weight of law then you might be better to go somewhere else. If there isn't a sign, or your state doesn't carry the weight of law. Carry anyway and don't ask for a permission slip.

Old Virginia Joe said:

I once made a written request of my Virginia church congregation leadership for me to be allowed to CC during services, to protect my family or anyone else near me in case of an attack on the church property. I have had my permit for many years. They turned me down, telling me there are two other people who are allowed to carry, and that "they got it covered." I have no idea if they mean CC or OC, but I have never seen anyone carry yet. I know these supposed guards are not there every single week. Besides finding another church that allows members to not be sitting ducks, does anyone have any advice on how I might be able to better deal with this going forward? Don't really want to switch membership, but am really not satisfied at all with the situation as is. I'd like to hear from saved folks who have ideas how to look at this in a Christian way, that honors God. Macho bluster and bravado ain't it. Thanks.

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If there is no sign, and you don't mind using the Ag's opinion on Cc, for a "good and significant reason", then just do it, if you change churches. I would get a print out of his opinion, and keep it on hand.

Few places I cc, I don't ask, IMHO, its the land owner/places of business job to post to there customers, the do's and dont's of the place. YMMV. Providing there is no sign of course.

Here is a copy of what's on wikipedia.

"Places of religious worship, without good and sufficient reason. The Attorney General has opined that personal protection constitutes a good and sufficient reason."

Western Branch is a nice church, on Old Myrtle Rd, here in Suffolk, that I don't think is to far from you. Just food for thought.

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ADobbs1989 said:

Stop asking permission and CC anyway? If it's actually concealed worth a damn no one will be the wiser. Granted I don't know any of your state laws, nor if the building has a "no firearms sign". If it does and you live in a state where signs carry the weight of law then you might be better to go somewhere else. If there isn't a sign, or your state doesn't carry the weight of law. Carry anyway and don't ask for a permission slip.

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This.

Or you can point out that by denying your right to self defense that they are violating part of the basis for the whole Christianity.

i wouldn't have asked in the first place. i have quit a church that is nation wide and popular, bec ause of their bigoted attitude and i send them a proof of the tithes i give every week

since Jesus told us to arm ourselves, then i think he wanted us to carry them to church



http://bible.cc/luke/22-36.htm

I refer you to Nike V Converse~~"Just do it!"

papa bear said:

i wouldn't have asked in the first place. i have quit a church that is nation wide and popular, bec ause of their bigoted attitude and i send them a proof of the tithes i give every week

since Jesus told us to arm ourselves, then i think he wanted us to carry them to church



http://bible.cc/luke/22-36.htm

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It is true that churches are a dime a dozen, but it is also true that a good, bold preachin church is a rare and precious thing to find anymore. Not something to be easily tossed aside. Then again, the safety of my family is no laughing matter to this head of my family. So, yes I could quit and move on, but to where? My Dad used to warn me about "cutting off my nose to spite my face." Wouldn't this be the same thing, if most all else is pretty good there?

I had no idea they would say no, so asking was not a big deal, (I thought). Now, looking back, I might recommend others "just do it." I thought I would be welcomed as part of the volunteer defense team, but apparently I'm not.

We were all created equal, but this "Church Leader" doesn't treat all his Patrons equal? Fishy!

Old Virginia Joe said:

It is true that churches are a dime a dozen, but it is also true that a good, bold preachin church is a rare and precious thing to find anymore. Not something to be easily tossed aside. Then again, the safety of my family is no laughing matter to this head of my family. So, yes I could quit and move on, but to where? My Dad used to warn me about "cutting off my nose to spite my face." Wouldn't this be the same thing, if most all else is pretty good there?

I had no idea they would say no, so asking was not a big deal, (I thought). Now, looking back, I might recommend others "just do it." I thought I would be welcomed as part of the volunteer defense team, but apparently I'm not.

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I don't care what your beliefs are, but personally I don't have time to associate with those who don't respect my rights. Just remember every week your going to be paying him to disrespect your rights as an American. I guess Christians might put their spiritual leaders on a higher pedestal than they would others, but since I'm not religious I can only see it through that viewpoint.

I agree that you should just carry. Ain't the point of CC is that no one knows your carrying? Plus they sure would be great-full if something happened and you had to use it. Plus I don't like putting my life, my family in other people's hands. Also don't like knowing people in the church carrying and not know how good of shot they are. Here in my church, we'll all get together and go shooting, and it is reassuring to know the shooters they are. So I say carry


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God will watch over you while you worship.

McLintock said:

I agree that you should just carry. Ain't the point of CC is that no one knows your carrying? Plus they sure would be great-full if something happened and you had to use it. Plus I don't like putting my life, my family in other people's hands. Also don't like knowing people in the church carrying and not know how good of shot they are. Here in my church, we'll all get together and go shooting, and it is reassuring to know the shooters they are. So I say carry


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I agree with just carry, but if it bothers him, he should change churches first. A written statement of denial has been given to him. If he shows on accident, and it's seen, that's a kettle of fish he doesn't want.

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McLintock said:

I agree that you should just carry. Ain't the point of CC is that no one knows your carrying? Plus they sure would be great-full if something happened and you had to use it. Plus I don't like putting my life, my family in other people's hands. Also don't like knowing people in the church carrying and not know how good of shot they are. Here in my church, we'll all get together and go shooting, and it is reassuring to know the shooters they are. So I say carry


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Do that in Ohio, get discovered in a church that has not specifically given you permission to carry, and you are a criminal.

The point of CC is not to carry in a way that hides lawlessness. The point is to lawfully carry where such would not be prohibited while most don't know that you are carrying.

nonameisgood said:

God will watch over you while you worship.

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What? If you mean keep us safe, that's not true. Plenty of Christians have been martyred while worshipping and otherwise being faithful. He does NOT promise to keep us from harm.

"Dear Pastor _____________,

Thank you for considering my request to be armed defense of myself and loved ones during worship.

You seem willing for me to meet God prematurely should the opportunity arise. I cannot square your desire to expose my blood with your seeming concern for my soul. Nor, can I reconcile your mission to bring inner peace and ease the travails of life for your congregation with your refusal.

Even Christ told his disciples to sell their cloak and buy a sword. There was a time in this commonwealth when parishoners were required to bring arms to church. Apparently their pastors thought it worthwhile to protect their bodies while bringing them the Gospel.

Your ideas are misaligned. I will now seek spiritual sustenance from a pastor who has spent time comparing and ordering his own thoughts before trying to hold himself up as a spiritual leader for others.

Formerly yours,

John Doe"

I would ask to meet with the leaders (or submit a letter) and honestly and candidly express your grievance and the conviction you feel to be prepared to defend your family and your fellow parishiners should the need arise. You believe this conviction comes from the lord, yet you also wish to respect the elders of the church and would not wish to appear disrespectful in any way. In fact, even though the laws in the commonwealth allow you to carry in church (Open or concealed - with good reason) you sought the approval of your leadership before beginning to CC during services. Part of it is that the sight of an openly carried weapon could upset some of the folks and you wanted to let the leadership know that you were a resource that they could call upon in a time of need. Right now you are conflicted between the voice you hear inside telling you to be alert against the thief that comes in the dark and wanting to be obident to the desires of the leadership. Ask them to help you understand their reasons for not wanting to have all of the protection possible for the congregation so that you may understand their point of view and help you try and find a resolution to your problem that does not involve finding another church. They may not understand how strongly you feel about this issue and may reflect upon it and alter their answer.

Yes I know, most here would not take such a "timid" approach but if I understand your view on the issue the above sort of approach may be one you are comfortable in taking.

eye95 said:

Do that in Ohio, get discovered in a church that has not specifically given you permission to carry, and you are a criminal.

The point of CC is not to carry in a way that hides lawlessness. The point is to lawfully carry where such would not be prohibited while most don't know that you are carrying.

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Don't need permission in VA, at least the way the law is written pastor wise.

§ 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.
If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

Please, if I'm mistaken point me in the direction. With that info, this is why I personally would change churches first. He's already been told no, if he gets busted, that could bring up trespassing correct?

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When I still had my CHP I carried in church, I never felt compelled to tell anyone. I no longer go to church, and I no longer conceal. When I was a uniformed officer I did carry open in church in street clothes and nothing was said, but most people knew that I was a LEO though. But then the only time I went to church was when my mother came to visit. My opinion is if you are going to conceal, do it, and keep your mouth shut whether you have permission or not.

My advise is to pray on and let your prayers and concience be your guide. While true that laws for carrying in church, in VA, are with the CC'r, you have been told not to. Possible to be tresspassed? IANAL..Questions between you and your prayers.

Boots and ankle hosters are great things sometimes...

Old Virginia Joe said:

It is true that churches are a dime a dozen, but it is also true that a good, bold preachin church is a rare and precious thing to find anymore. Not something to be easily tossed aside. Then again, the safety of my family is no laughing matter to this head of my family. So, yes I could quit and move on, but to where? My Dad used to warn me about "cutting off my nose to spite my face." Wouldn't this be the same thing, if most all else is pretty good there?

I had no idea they would say no, so asking was not a big deal, (I thought). Now, looking back, I might recommend others "just do it." I thought I would be welcomed as part of the volunteer defense team, but apparently I'm not.

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OLD JOE, i think you are Christian, so i will go ahead and say that if a church is not following the teachings of Jesus then they are not in the body to start with. you might believe you must stay with them to try and bring them back. my suggestion is to shake the dust off you shoes, there are lots of churches that are in the blood

nonameisgood said:

God will watch over you while you worship.

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a Ghandi said i am not so egotistical to think that God didn't give me the smarts to run