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Thread: I thought thermal imaging was prohibited by a federal judge years ago ...

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    I thought thermal imaging was prohibited by a federal judge years ago ...


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    I thought thermal imaging was prohibited by a federal judge years ago ...

    And it wasn't someone's home. It was after the occupant of the home reported to the police some info about a possible unauthorized intruder in their boat in the yard!


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    I thought thermal imaging was prohibited by a federal judge years ago ...

    Thermal imaging has good uses, and it wasn't "outlawed". Very likely, it is like many other tools, and you are not permitted to use it absent reasonable suspicion of a crime, possible without warrant or exigency circumstance. It's like searching someone... only in the right time and situation is it permissible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Thanks for the excellent link to the thermal images.

    ---------------------

    I didn't see the cite for that federal judge prohibition...

    but, when the homeowner sees his boat's white shrinkwrap cover torn open and the bloody body of a trespasser in the homeowners boat, that trespasser no longer has a right to privacy.

    The media headlines give the impresion that this "suspect" was FOUND by thermal imaging, but at best, his exact position, and his movement, and body heat (recently alive) were VERIFIED by the thermal imaging.
    Last edited by E6chevron; 04-21-2013 at 05:27 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Cops used thermal imaging to see if owner/occupant was running a marijuana grow operation. Court (much too lazy to look up the cite, you all need the practice, I just aint gonna do it) ruled that thermal imaging was a search under 4A and needed a warrant which the cops did not have.

    Guess what the cops do now when your local utility company informs them your power/water useage just went up a whole bunch?

    It's not rocket surgery if you pay attention.

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    My recollection is that police cannot fly or drive around with FLIR searching homes, attics, etc. warrantlessly. Or, rather, evidence gathered that way is inadmissable.
    Last edited by Citizen; 04-21-2013 at 07:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Court (much too lazy to look up the cite, you all need the practice, I just aint gonna do it.
    hardly lazy .. just don't remember which court ruled this way ...

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    I thought thermal imaging was prohibited by a federal judge years ago ...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    My recollection is that police cannot fly or drive around with FLIR searching homes, attics, etc. warrantlessly. Or, rather, evidence gathered that way is inadmissable.
    I remember many years ago wire tapping was illegal, but I got tips from the feds all the time on crimes that were about to be committed from information gained through wire taps. All I had to do was be in the right place at the right time to make a lawful arrest while the crime was in progress. I am sorry to say I did not see the damage that those antics have brought us today.

    Because they can't does not mean they don't.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 04-21-2013 at 09:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    thanks!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I remember many years ago wire tapping was illegal, but I got tips from the feds all the time on crimes that were about to be committed from information gained through illegal wire taps. All I had to do was be in the right place at the right time to make a unlawful arrest while the crime was in progress. I am sorry to say I did not see the damage that those antics have brought us today.

    Because they can't does not mean they don't.
    While your statement is true for good cause, the fact that they happened and nothing "negative" came of it does not make it right or legal. And consider your entire post for a second. Your arrest is unlawful. The fact that you would not have been "at the right place" sans illegal wire tap would make it so. As the entire situation started with an illegal act, the arrest is illegal as well. Regardless of what crime was taking place.

    I have amended your post to reflect what I believe to be a truer statement.
    Last edited by Tucker6900; 04-22-2013 at 05:22 PM.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Cops used thermal imaging to see if owner/occupant was running a marijuana grow operation. Court (much too lazy to look up the cite, you all need the practice, I just aint gonna do it) ruled that thermal imaging was a search under 4A and needed a warrant which the cops did not have.

    Guess what the cops do now when your local utility company informs them your power/water useage just went up a whole bunch?

    It's not rocket surgery if you pay attention.

    stay safe.
    Your bill is higher so you must be growing pot........such a gross injustice and a travesty to the limits government are supposed to have. Like the one where people are supposed to feel secure in their person and effects.

    Sigh.....and some say we don't have a tyrannical government.....

    This did make me want to find out what ever happened to the guy in Texas who entrapped the cops by growing legal plants in a house and video'd the raid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Your bill is higher so you must be growing pot........such a gross injustice and a travesty to the limits government are supposed to have. Like the one where people are supposed to feel secure in their person and effects.

    Sigh.....and some say we don't have a tyrannical government.....

    This did make me want to find out what ever happened to the guy in Texas who entrapped the cops by growing legal plants in a house and video'd the raid.
    It's worse than that. Just a short time ago a home was raided, with warrant in hand, because the couple bought hydroponics equipment. What the cops found was an indoor garden in their basement and apparently the whol place was thrashed pretty well in the search for contraband. Oh yeah, the couple were retired CIA agents with high end security clearances...maybe the beast was repaying them for any ills they had perpetrated upon others?


    As for other posters, and the use of thermal imaging.

    The use of the FLIR in this instance did not violate Supreme Court stare decisis. In Kyollo the court held that officers could not use technology not generally available to the public for purposes of determining what was going on within the HOME and the curtilage of the home without a warrant (of consent which always negates the need for a warrant). I think it would be insane to argue that the property owner in this instance did not give consent since he noticed the blood and called the police.

    Further, the helicopter being outfitted with the FLIR is not a violation in and of itself so long as the technology installed on the aircraft is not used to violate the sanctity of the home or its curtilage without a warrant or consent. FLIR is a great technology that gives a very clear image based on thermal differences. Its legitimate uses are many and the possibility of its misuse is insufficient to keep it from being installed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    <snip>I think it would be insane to argue that the property owner in this instance did not give consent since he noticed the blood and called the police. <snip>
    How did the home owner come to believe that it could have been the bombing perp? Why would the cops conclude that it could be the bombing perp? Or, was every 911 call to be treated as a possible bombing perp "sighting" on that day?
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    How did the home owner come to believe that it could have been the bombing perp? Why would the cops conclude that it could be the bombing perp? Or, was every 911 call to be treated as a possible bombing perp "sighting" on that day?
    Or, better yet, why such a response where another and similar report a week earlier would likely not elicit a similar LE response.

    The cops had "exigent circumstances" in their mind, likely ordered to act as if they did, and it will take a uppity citizen(s) to convince a judge that the cops did not in fact have exigent circumstances on 'X' private property.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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