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Thread: Open carry tools

  1. #1
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Open carry tools

    Anyone use Qik and have an opinion of it? Use something else you like better?
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  2. #2
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Anyone use Qik and have an opinion of it? Use something else you like better?
    My only concern with cell / smart phone based apps is battery life. In most encounters, there is little or no time to be fiddling with a cell phone to find the app, turn it on, lock the phone. Personally, I'd be hesitant to start making anything that could be considered 'furtive movements' in the presence of a LEO.

    I've got a little RCA VR5320R that runs on AAA batteries. A set of batteries lasts in excess of 12 hours. I can leave that running from the moment I leave the house, until I get home. Up to 200 hours record time, built in USB to download to a hard drive. Its about $30 on Amazon, including shipping.

    Just got Steel Magnolia a new one from one of the office supply stores, really snazzy; don't have make & model available, because she has it with her. But, it does leave me with an Olympus VN7000, which doesn't have USB interface, but otherwise is a nice little unit- 2GB memory (80+ hours HQ), 39 hours on a set of AAA batteries. It needs a home (hint, hint).
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Re: Open carry tools

    Smart recorder

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Open carry tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Anyone use Qik and have an opinion of it? Use something else you like better?
    The Poo ...errr the Q uses something similar I think? Just be aware if things go really bad & you are dealing with officer shady, the first thing that will happen is- said cell phone will be taken from you and end up destroyed or missing later. The really smart bad apples know these things stream video live, so they will be polite until they have it and can put it in a trunk etc while trying to stay off frame or turning it off / removing battery. Then the fun begins. So multiple stealth devices are suggested if possible to cover yours or your serviving family members @$$es. Odds of meeting Mr/Mrs shady cop, slim - but still better than getting hit by lightening while golfing so .... as the saying goes: an once of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Often police video goes "missing or cruiser video units malfunction" so it is up to us to provide proof of compliance and non violation of the law. Audio recorders are better than nothing. BUT they do not show the position of your hands in relation to your weapon or others actions around you. Food for thought.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 04-22-2013 at 01:20 AM.
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  5. #5
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    My only concern with cell / smart phone based apps is battery life. In most encounters, there is little or no time to be fiddling with a cell phone to find the app, turn it on, lock the phone. Personally, I'd be hesitant to start making anything that could be considered 'furtive movements' in the presence of a LEO.

    I've got a little RCA VR5320R that runs on AAA batteries. A set of batteries lasts in excess of 12 hours. I can leave that running from the moment I leave the house, until I get home. Up to 200 hours record time, built in USB to download to a hard drive. Its about $30 on Amazon, including shipping.

    Just got Steel Magnolia a new one from one of the office supply stores, really snazzy; don't have make & model available, because she has it with her. But, it does leave me with an Olympus VN7000, which doesn't have USB interface, but otherwise is a nice little unit- 2GB memory (80+ hours HQ), 39 hours on a set of AAA batteries. It needs a home (hint, hint).
    I might be interested in giving it a new home
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  6. #6
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Open carry tools

    I know I am most likely catching no one's attention here, but imagine you are out at the market. You notice a lady looking at you often and she is not smiling. You pay for your items and leave without incident. On the drive home you are pulled over by the police. You are stopped by police (felony prone stop) and arrested. Why? The lady at the market called 911 & said you waived your gun at her in the parking lot from your car as you drove away. Will your recorder help you? We as open carriers must take into account that unlike us law-abiding citizens, many kook's/anti's won't hesitate to lie to force their way on us. If it is your word (a 6' + male) against a 98lbs woman's /soccer mom's word? Who do you think the police & a jury will believe?
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    I know I am most likely catching no one's attention here, but imagine you are out at the market. You notice a lady looking at you often and she is not smiling. You pay for your items and leave without incident. On the drive home you are pulled over by the police. You are stopped by police (felony prone stop) and arrested. Why? The lady at the market called 911 & said you waived your gun at her in the parking lot from your car as you drove away. Will your recorder help you? We as open carriers must take into account that unlike us law-abiding citizens, many kook's/anti's won't hesitate to lie to force their way on us. If it is your word (a 6' + male) against a 98lbs woman's /soccer mom's word? Who do you think the police & a jury will believe?
    I would hope the jury would believe the video and audio recording that I had running covering the entire time the liar soccer mom said I committed a crime.

    I would hope the police would use that same video and audio recording as evidence to arrest the arrogant POS who thought she could push her anti gun agenda by lying that I had committed a crime.

    And..

    I would hope that same video and audio recording could be used as evidence in court as I sued that lying POS until I owned her car, her house, and her future earnings for the next several years.

    Yeah... I know... more than likely a lawsuit wouldn't result in me owning her house bit I'd sure as hell try!!!!

    Yet... without the video and audio recording I'd have.................... nothing substantial to prove my innocence.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 04-22-2013 at 06:29 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    I would hope the jury would believe the video and audio recording that I had running covering the entire time the liar soccer mom said I committed a crime.

    I would hope the police would use that same video and audio recording as evidence to arrest the arrogant POS who thought she could push her anti gun agenda by lying that I had committed a crime.

    And..

    I would hope that same video and audio recording could be used as evidence in court as I sued that lying POS until I owned her car, her house, and her future earnings for the next several years.

    Yeah... I know... more than likely a lawsuit wouldn't result in me owning her house bit I'd sure as hell try!!!!

    Yet... without the video and audio recording I'd have.................... nothing substantial to prove my innocence.
    So, what do we have for recommendations for an audio & video recorder with 12+ hours of continuous recording capability, that is easily concealable and reasonable priced?
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    I carry an audio recorder as my primary recording device. I use rechargeable aaa batteries. When the memory gets full after 40 hours or so, I simply delete it and start over.

    I have used qik and think it has its place as a useful recording device, however here are some shortcomings:

    It only records while your phone is unlocked. It does not record in the background. If your phone is confiscated while it is recording, both the video file on your phone and the uploaded video file can be deleted from the app by the person who confiscated your device. This person can also look at all of your other data since your phone is unlocked. Text messages, photos, web browsing history, recent calls, phone book, etc.

    I am surprised that there is not an iPhone app even for jailbroken phones that allows recording/streaming in the background.
    Last edited by lapeer20m; 04-22-2013 at 09:03 PM.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

  10. #10
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    I use my iPhone as a voice recorder more often then I use qik. It records great audio even while the phine is locked for long periods of time and no Internet connection required. Disadvantage is that if you receive a phone call while recording the recording gets interrupted. So in my opi ion, this is most useful as a backup recorder and not primary. Although using your phone in airplane mode would solve the issue.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

  11. #11
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Open carry tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    So, what do we have for recommendations for an audio & video recorder with 12+ hours of continuous recording capability, that is easily concealable and reasonable priced?
    Ok - think for a second, should we post what we would use to save our @$$es so officer shady & Koo koo anti's 'r us can be wise to them? Probably not the best idea.... No dig meant. I suspect our resident covert A/V expert - Bikenut would send you some suggestions in a PM if you are serious about covering your backside. Let me ask you this? How much is your pistol & holster worth? Usually between $500 to $3,000 for most OCers. We spend the money to protect our lives, right? How much is your freedom worth then? Only $29 bucks -
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 04-22-2013 at 09:53 PM.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  12. #12
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    So, what do we have for recommendations for an audio & video recorder with 12+ hours of continuous recording capability, that is easily concealable and reasonable priced?
    To my knowledge there aren't any concealable video & audio devices that offer 12+ hours of continuous recording... but there is the option of multiple devices.

    Are multiple devices too much of a hassle? That would be up to the individual to decide. Me? I WANT to have a recording as proof of my innocence/the other guy's guilt so I generally carry enough devices to have the ability to record 5.5 to 7 hours of video and audio.... and, aside from paying attention to how much time has elapsed for a device and switching to another, I'm not burdened down with stuff hanging off me either simply because I chose which combination of devices would offer the most recording time while being easily integrated into how I dress....

    I'm sure some would say I'm a bit paranoid but I save those recordings for quite a while just in case the cops come knocking two weeks later because some dillweed told a lie. Some obviously important recordings of actual confrontations with police or citizens are kept for............. years.

    And NO! I will NOT! post anything about those devices on the open forum.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  13. #13
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Open carry tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    To my knowledge there aren't any concealable video & audio devices that offer 12+ hours of continuous recording... but there is the option of multiple devices.

    Are multiple devices too much of a hassle? That would be up to the individual to decide. Me? I WANT to have a recording as proof of my innocence/the other guy's guilt so I generally carry enough devices to have the ability to record 5.5 to 7 hours of video and audio.... and, aside from paying attention to how much time has elapsed for a device and switching to another, I'm not burdened down with stuff hanging off me either simply because I chose which combination of devices would offer the most recording time while being easily integrated into how I dress....

    I'm sure some would say I'm a bit paranoid but I save those recordings for quite a while just in case the cops come knocking two weeks later because some dillweed told a lie. Some obviously important recordings of actual confrontations with police or citizens are kept for............. years.

    And NO! I will NOT! post anything about those devices on the open forum.
    And this thread will die a slow death, because people would rather live in denial of just how easy it is for their freedom to be taken from them. Sadly, we must be willing to prove our innocence or risk imprisonment. Jim Makowski (or any other lawyer worth anything) can tell you without video it is very easy for a prosecutor to "paint a picture" of your alleged crime for a jury, that even the best lawyers cannot undo.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  14. #14
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Open carry tools

    Bet this guy wishes he had video of his non crime. You are not paranoid Bikenut. This guy got arrested days after he supposedly brandished a pistol...
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...d.php?t=113853
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    I know I am most likely catching no one's attention here, but imagine you are out at the market. You notice a lady looking at you often and she is not smiling. You pay for your items and leave without incident. On the drive home you are pulled over by the police. You are stopped by police (felony prone stop) and arrested. Why? The lady at the market called 911 & said you waived your gun at her in the parking lot from your car as you drove away. Will your recorder help you? We as open carriers must take into account that unlike us law-abiding citizens, many kook's/anti's won't hesitate to lie to force their way on us. If it is your word (a 6' + male) against a 98lbs woman's /soccer mom's word? Who do you think the police & a jury will believe?
    I can't say the thought has never occurred.. but unless you have 360° coverage the alleged brandishing could be argued to have taken outside the view of the camera (like your hand on it while holstered). Could your video setup prove you never touched your gun at all? The big stores tend to also have parking lot surveillance, but let's hope said lady isn't that bright.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfmi View Post
    I can't say the thought has never occurred.. but unless you have 360° coverage the alleged brandishing could be argued to have taken outside the view of the camera (like your hand on it while holstered). Could your video setup prove you never touched your gun at all? The big stores tend to also have parking lot surveillance, but let's hope said lady isn't that bright.
    Hmmm..... even though a video recording isn't 360° it, along with the audio (and the date and time stamp), can show the totality of the circumstances.

    But... having the recording to show said totality of the circumstances is better than relying on "he said/she said". And relying on other camera's... parking lot cameras and police dash cams... is scary since entirely too often those recordings are not there when the innocent person needs them... you know... equipment malfunctions and the like.

    Folks have the freedom to decide to carry a gun to protect themselves (as best they can) from bad people who would attack them physically ... and folks have the freedom to decide whether they will take that extra step to protect themselves (as best they can) from lying people who would attack their freedom.

    And I'll give my personal opinion worth exactly what was paid for it......

    When it comes to recording devices I think many folks have the idea that "if I haven't done anything wrong I don't have to have a recording to prove I have nothing to fear".... and I think that attitude of denial that there really are people out there who would lie, some in uniform and some not, is foolish.

    And those who think everyone carrying a recorder means they are out looking to start a confrontation to be a utube star need to realize that if that attitude were true then if someone carries a gun it must mean they are looking to start a gun fight to be a hero.... right?

    Y'all do what you want... but if the police come to my door 3 weeks from now... or 3 years from now... to arrest me for some crap they say I did I'll have a recording to take to court. What will YOU have?
    Last edited by Bikenut; 04-24-2013 at 08:24 AM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Bet this guy wishes he had video of his non crime. You are not paranoid Bikenut. This guy got arrested days after he supposedly brandished a pistol...
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...d.php?t=113853
    Yikes, I do that twice daily. :/

  18. #18
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Open carry tools

    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    Yikes, I do that twice daily. :/
    I hear you! Most who OC/CC & have a CPL do. It is much more comfortable & far easier to get the pistol out in a emergency. This is one of the primary reasons most LEO's do not like wearing seatbelts.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 04-29-2013 at 12:28 AM.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Bet this guy wishes he had video of his non crime. You are not paranoid Bikenut. This guy got arrested days after he supposedly brandished a pistol...
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...d.php?t=113853
    Case in point - those that haven't read that thread should. He had a good recorder and a dash cam.

    He also could use more help - Virginia statutes and attorney Dan Hawes should carry the day in his favor, but there are expenses.
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  20. #20
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Open carry tools

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Case in point - those that haven't read that thread should. He had a good recorder and a dash cam.

    He also could use more help - Virginia statutes and attorney Dan Hawes should carry the day in his favor, but there are expenses.
    Well unless dashcam was looking inward (or mounted on rear dashboard looking forward) it is useless in court along with audio of road noise. The whole point of mine and bikenuts posts here seem to be lost on most here. They are: video of your perspective / view is gold when it comes to false accusations of your alleged actions. Without it you end up in a their word (bus driver "he waived the thing right at me, I wet myself I was so scared" against OCer "just moved it to a secure spot in vehicle".) With juries today - God only knows what they will buy into?
    ETA- post not directed at you grapeshot. At others that can't believe that this could happen to them also VERY easily - it just takes one phone call / conversation with a LEO apparently.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 04-29-2013 at 08:22 PM.
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    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    --snipped--
    ETA- post not directed at you grapeshot. At others that can't believe that this could happen to them also VERY easily - it just takes one phone call / conversation with a LEO apparently.
    Not a problem - no misdirection presumed.

    BTW - these entry level dash cams w/audio are now under $21.00
    http://www.dhgate.com/cart/newcart.do?act=pageload

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    Last edited by Grapeshot; 04-29-2013 at 08:58 PM. Reason: Added
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    So, what kind of a cam is recommended for out of the car? I was thinking of a small one that can be clipped on the shirt neck or pocket or pants pocket/belt w/ removable SD Cards, or one for each and keeping spare SD Cards and charger for extended trips.

    Sure I have Qik, but it is a battery hog and the screen can't be off when recording.

  23. #23
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Open carry tools

    Quote Originally Posted by jfmi View Post
    So, what kind of a cam is recommended for out of the car? I was thinking of a small one that can be clipped on the shirt neck or pocket or pants pocket/belt w/ removable SD Cards, or one for each and keeping spare SD Cards and charger for extended trips.

    Sure I have Qik, but it is a battery hog and the screen can't be off when recording.
    Ok - OVERT cameras ok to talk about on web open forum - here's an example some police even use this type. It is a place or something similar. http://www.amazon.com/Veho-Muvi-Pro-.../dp/B0037P5CAI some of this type can be recharged on the fly using usb cable / car charger / laptop etc...

    No STEALTH / COVERT cameras should ever be openly shown/posted/linked. (Use PMs) Why? Well they are your last line of defense against a looney citizen (liar) or officer shady pants should your smart phone be made retarded due to trauma or your clip cam / handy cam / super 8 cam ..be taken etc. Let's not make it easy for them, ok?
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  24. #24
    Regular Member DetroitBiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfmi View Post
    So, what kind of a cam is recommended for out of the car? I was thinking of a small one that can be clipped on the shirt neck or pocket or pants pocket/belt w/ removable SD Cards, or one for each and keeping spare SD Cards and charger for extended trips.

    Sure I have Qik, but it is a battery hog and the screen can't be off when recording.
    PM sent.. the first one is small and cheap ,
    second is bigger.. alot more expensive..But Very High Quality

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