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The Tale of Henrico - Chapter 2 in a Ferry Tale - Arrested for following the law

USNA69

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
375
Location
Norfolk, Virginia, USA
May we assume that none of the parents of the children, who were passengers on the bus, has brought suit against the school and/or the bus driver for placing their children's safety in grave danger by the driver's continuing to follow Scouser's vehicle EVEN AFTER Scouser allegedly had reasonably induced fear in the mind of the driver of being shot or injured as a result of the handling of Scouser's firearm?

If I were one of those parents, I might feel like the school or the driver had some serious 'splainin' to do.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
I am, probably, still in denial. This could not possibly have happened. Please let us know when the collection starts again.

Still collecting.

Another appeal bond to post and appeal costs to pay.

Thanks for the help jwaldo!!!
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Active routing for donations

Paper and electronic checks payable to:
Virginia Legal Defense
P.O. Box 100
Broad Run, VA 20137

Phone: (540) 347-2430
Note: For Account of Graham C.

or

 

77zach

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2,913
Location
Marion County, FL
I am, probably, still in denial. This could not possibly have happened. Please let us know when the collection starts again.

Sadly, I'm not the least bit surprised. That so many are expressing their consternation over this is surprising to me. The game is rigged, and truth and justice are no defense. "Jury of my peers" are frightening words to me. My peers are some of the most immoral, uncouth, uneducated, ignorant, scumbags the world has ever known. This is the average American. And in the Old Dominion, they are about to elect one of their own to the governor's mansion. Have fun with Terry.

Please let us know if that big donor dished out this weekend. If not, I'll throw in another $25.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Sadly, I'm not the least bit surprised. That so many are expressing their consternation over this is surprising to me. The game is rigged, and truth and justice are no defense. "Jury of my peers" are frightening words to me. My peers are some of the most immoral, uncouth, uneducated, ignorant, scumbags the world has ever known. This is the average American. And in the Old Dominion, they are about to elect one of their own to the governor's mansion. Have fun with Terry.

Please let us know if that big donor dished out this weekend. If not, I'll throw in another $25.
No one donor is anticipated that will cover all of the needs. Part of my initial delay was to make sure that all connections/links were active and operating correctly - they are.

In a parallel effort, we will be looking at both the Brandishing law itself and at the way jury instructions are given in such cases. The test should not be whether anyone felt threatened, but whether there was any intent to threaten - big difference between the two.

The accounts are open and active:

Paper and electronic checks payable to:
Virginia Legal Defense
P.O. Box 100
Broad Run, VA 20137

Phone: (540) 347-2430
Note: For Account of Graham C.

or

 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Louisiana Kicking in...
Speedy - every time I look, there you are near the front of the line promoting and defending. Thanks for all that you do.

Was through Louisiana a little over a week ago to and from the GRPC in Houston - wish we had time to stop for a spell.
 

speed41ae

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
281
Location
Richmond, VA
May we assume that none of the parents of the children, who were passengers on the bus, has brought suit against the school and/or the bus driver for placing their children's safety in grave danger by the driver's continuing to follow Scouser's vehicle EVEN AFTER Scouser allegedly had reasonably induced fear in the mind of the driver of being shot or injured as a result of the handling of Scouser's firearm?

If I were one of those parents, I might feel like the school or the driver had some serious 'splainin' to do.

I have been to both of the court appearances and have not seen any evidence that there were any students that were on the bus. They keep using the OMG there was a gun near children tactic, but a request for a list of students on the bus has been ignored.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
In a case such as this I wonder if a bench trial would have been preferred. Again this comes down to the individual judge on the bench and whether or not they are activist judges or follow the law. I think that problem with juries is that they tend to be full of women and college students. College students tend to be liberal and women will perhaps be too emotional about the protection of school children to actually look at the facts of the case. In the end it is one civilians word against that of another. In this case the complaining civilian is be given preference as if he is a LEO by both the trial judge and the appellate court jury.

Most likely it would have been worse. Judges are reluctant to mess with the decisions of a lower court - especially when we are talking about the county level as opposed to the state system vs the federal appellate system. These guys pass each other in the halls every day and unless there was really good reason to overturn a decision it's going to be a source of friction - regardless of how much a decision needed reversal or not. In this case there is little to suggest the judge would not have reached the same verdict - just a lot faster.

Scouser was looking at not coming home for a long time. Losing everything he did lose still beats not being able to be home.

I'm going to spill a bit of personal information about Scouser and his family - and I'm not even going to ask for permission beforehand. Scouser is a major provider of therapy that his son needs. Being away for the time he was looking at would most likely put his son back several years from the progress he has made to date. (And his kid is only 3!) And to add to that the emotional trauma of not understanding why daddy will not come home and play with him, or take him to the zoo, could mean a complete trainwreck for his son. (I'm not saying much about his wife, but it goes as well for her except she does not need therapy - at least not the kind her son gets.)

In the end it is one civilians word against that of another. In this case the complaining civilian is be given preference as if he is a LEO by both the trial judge and the appellate court jury

I don't think "preference" is the appropriate word. I think it hinges more on being able to understand, both from a personal emotional level, and from a legal level, just what the crime of brandishing is. Given that the law outlawing brandishing does not even know what it is, it does not surprise me that the jury did not know either.

Think malum in se as opposed to mens rea and malum prohibitum. Everybody says there are two elements to the crime of brandishing a firearm, but a structural analysis of the stature would provide a disagreement, saying there are in fact three elements. That the case law does not recognize this is one of the two causes of confusiuon in understanding exactly what constitutes the crime.

Compare
§ 18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. ....

with the only other brandishing statute
§ 18.2-282.1. Brandishing a machete or other bladed weapon with intent to intimidate; penalty.

It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold, or brandish a machete or any weapon, with an exposed blade 12 inches or longer, with the intent of intimidating any person or group of persons and in a manner that reasonably demonstrates that intent. This section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. ....

18.2-282.1 clearly spells out the three elements of the crime. The person brandishing the machete may have the intent to intimidate another, but if that other does not in fact perceive the intent there is no crime committed. It needs further cleaning up, but it's a bit better than 18.2-282.

stay safe.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Does VA have a "void for vagueness" doctrine?

Does not need one. SCOTUS has already addressed the issue as it relates to both federal and state statutes.

I'm not sure a vaguness challenge would survive - mostly because of the body of case law explaining the statute.

stay safe.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Does VA have a "void for vagueness" doctrine?

Doctrine = statute? Words have meanings by legal definition and common useage. Believe that any court/judge could so rule, but don't think a "vagueness" statute exists.

I have been to both of the court appearances and have not seen any evidence that there were any students that were on the bus. They keep using the OMG there was a gun near children tactic, but a request for a list of students on the bus has been ignored.

The children were included for the emotional appeal IMO, though no evidence of their actually being threatened, BUT they could have been. Guilty for what could have happened if the intent had been there.

There was no intent to assault, therefore no brandashing - why is that concept so difficult?
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
It seems to me that if the list of children allegedly present was requested in discovery, and not provided, that there exists the possibility that witnesses were withheld that could have contradicted testimony of the driver. A driver who, if the description of him within this thread is accurate (not properly licensed, didn't complain until the next day, followed the man he alleges frightened him so much), is apparently not very reliable nor responsible.

If the list was indeed requested in discovery and not provided, that alone should be grounds for appeal on the fact that the defendant could not get a fair trial because the state denied him the ability to question potential witnesses who were present at the scene. WHAT ARE THEY HIDING ?
 

frank4570

Regular Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
17
Location
culpeper
Is there anyway to find out why the jury convicted?

They may have felt they were forced to vote a certain way because of legal mumbo jumbo.

Or they may have felt he threatened the bus driver on purpose.

It's a big difference.
 

JamesCanby

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,480
Location
Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
No one donor is anticipated that will cover all of the needs. Part of my initial delay was to make sure that all connections/links were active and operating correctly - they are.

In a parallel effort, we will be looking at both the Brandishing law itself and at the way jury instructions are given in such cases. The test should not be whether anyone felt threatened, but whether there was any intent to threaten - big difference between the two.

The accounts are open and active:

Paper and electronic checks payable to:
Virginia Legal Defense
P.O. Box 100
Broad Run, VA 20137

Phone: (540) 347-2430
Note: For Account of Graham C.

or


Donation made via PayPal.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Is there anyway to find out why the jury convicted?

They may have felt they were forced to vote a certain way because of legal mumbo jumbo.

Or they may have felt he threatened the bus driver on purpose.

It's a big difference.

I'm going to try to interview some of the jurors next week. I don't know when yet...depends on the hunting.
 
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