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Virginia Beach's Beach Violence - Shootings, Stabbings and Robberies

JamesCanby

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,480
Location
Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
If it's carried concealed, you need to make sure you're not in violation of paragraph A.ii & A.v of 18.2-308

Roscoe

That 1st paragraph describes very specific knife types: "any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor." A common folding knife, even with 'assisted' opening (not a switchblade), does not fall within that definition. Even the catchall "like kind" statement has to reference back to the defined types.
 

roscoe13

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,134
Location
Catlett, Virginia, USA
That 1st paragraph describes very specific knife types: "any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor." A common folding knife, even with 'assisted' opening (not a switchblade), does not fall within that definition. Even the catchall "like kind" statement has to reference back to the defined types.

What's your point? Justine never specified whether her tactical knife was folding or not. Peter Nap said there's no blade length limit, which is true (at the state level), but that doesn't mean that one can carry any knife one wants if it's concealed.

Another important consideration is that there's no statewide preemption relating to knife laws, so it's entirely possible that VB or other localities could have valid laws on the books regarding blade length.

Roscoe
 
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Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Gotcha, I thought the blade had to be 3" or less, but that's good to know. :)
3" or less in K-12 schools, excepting (v) any person who possesses a knife or blade which he uses customarily in his trade
http://law.justia.com/codes/virginia/2006/toc1802000/18.2-308.1.html

Then there are local restrictions, some mentioned and discussed before in the following thread. There is no preemption on knife laws - we need that.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?96020-Not-open-carry-or-firearm-but-related!-Va-Knife-laws-vagueness

Amherst Co. VA 12-25 in any park to have in his possession any knife with a blade of more than three (3) inches
Is this their anti park barbequing ordinance?

Ashland, VA 12-12 hidden from common observation, clasp knife having a blade more than (3 1/4) inches in length,

Chesterfield, Co. VA 15-210 to operate a taxicab at any time with a knife with a blade longer than 3"
Taxi cab drivers are dangerous - ask to measure any blades before you ride.

Danville, VA 39-31. & 23-52. to operate a taxicab at any time with a knife with a blade longer than 3" / No Knife on buses and at bus stops
Riding or waiting for a bus can make you a criminal.

Farmville, VA 18-48 to have in his possession a clasp knife having a blade more than three and one-quarter (3 1/4) inches
Another 1/4" will get you in trouble.

Fauquier Co. VA 16-7 for any person to use, carry or have in his possession any knife with a blade of more than 3" in any park.
Again, no parky with your hamburger bun cutting knife.

Hanover Co. VA 22.1-47. operate and drive a for-hire car with a knife with a blade longer than three (3) inches in length in his possession, Anti armed cab driver ordinances

Henrico Co. VA 21-139. operate and drive a for-hire car with a knife with a blade longer than three (3) inches in length in his possession, Guess Henrico doesn't want them to "cut" their fares.

Norfolk, VA 47-6. on any public/private/parochial/elementary/middle/high school, including buildings & grounds, W/blade 3" or longer

Petersburg, VA 74-207. on any public/private/parochial/elementary/middle/high school, including buildings & grounds, W/blade 3" or longer

Pulaski, VA 70-132. Parades/Rallies/Noncommercial Gatherings No participant shall carry knives/edged weapons, either openly or concealed. Whenever 2 or more are gathered, leave your knives at home.

Richmond, VA 66-347. knife having a blade more than 3 1/4 inches in length./ drive a taxicab with a blade longer than three inches Cab drivers get shorted 1/4"

Oh and no "automatic openers unless you are LE or similar special person and too there are different style/type of knives that are no-no......you may Goggle it, I'm tired.:(
 
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roscoe13

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,134
Location
Catlett, Virginia, USA
Fauquier Co. VA 16-7 for any person to use, carry or have in his possession any knife with a blade of more than 3" in any park.
Again, no parky with your hamburger bun cutting knife.

Actually, Fauquier Co. has an exemption for knives necessary for the preparation of food, so you'd be OK with your bun cutting knife...

But yeah, knife preemption would be nice. Maybe we just need constitutional carry for all weapons.

Roscoe
 

ProShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
4,663
Location
www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
That brings up a good question that I've always wondered about. It seems that any demo vids that I've seen for those types of defensive items showed them being used against the assailant on a one-on-one basis. From your experience, how effective can pepper spray (what is available to consumers at least, vs. crowd control versions available for police, military, etc.) be when attacked by a mob such as many of the incidents identified were in this situation? Or is it more a case of something is better than nothing?

Very effective! http://www.newsplex.com/home/headlines/128703473.html

Sabre (the company whose class I teach) has small "multiple attacker" sized units that are very effective for crowds.

Justine - I don't know which brand you have been sprayed with, but I promise you that if you gave someone a juicing with Sabre, they'd be pretty much useless for 30 minutes and that would give you plenty of time to escape the situation. I've been sprayed 12 times and it sucked each and every time.
 

Justine

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2012
Messages
233
Location
Cheyenne, WY
Justine - I don't know which brand you have been sprayed with, but I promise you that if you gave someone a juicing with Sabre, they'd be pretty much useless for 30 minutes and that would give you plenty of time to escape the situation. I've been sprayed 12 times and it sucked each and every time.

It was whatever OC spray the military uses when we trained for anti-terrorism/security forces. Got sprayed twice. It sucks, but it's not that bad. You just suck it up, run your obstacle course, and it's over. If you don't panic, it's not that bad... it stings, and I wouldn't recommend taking a hot shower or rubbing at it, but overall, it's completely endurable.
 
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Glockster

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2010
Messages
786
Location
Houston
Sometimes I think Skidmark and myself are the only ones tha clank when we walk.

I carry a gun which is the very last resort.
I carry a Taser that is really only good for close range one on one.
I carry Bear Spray with a Halon Carrier because it has better range, is more effective and good for crowds.

I also carry a knife and Justine....there is no legal blade length for a knife except in certain places like schools.

I carry an ASP in my camera gear. Options are always good.

Wouldn't have thought about Bear Spray -- is that also a type of pepper spray or some other type of stuff? I'm assuming that whatever it is would be extremely effective in disabling given a strong desire to not simply tick a bear off.

Sorry, guess that I have to ask -- what is an ASP?
 

Glockster

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2010
Messages
786
Location
Houston
Sabre, they'd be pretty much useless for 30 minutes and that would give you plenty of time to escape the situation. I've been sprayed 12 times and it sucked each and every time.

Interesting "hobby." [Assume you have to as some part of the license agreement or such to sell it, train folks with it?]
 

Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
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35,317
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Valhalla

Justine

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2012
Messages
233
Location
Cheyenne, WY
Some people use standard OC spray like hot sauce on their eggs.....seriously.

I use a cream variation of it on my injured knee to relieve pain. It's amazing that way, but again, don't take any hot showers cuz then you're in for a little more than anticipated. LOL
 

Glockster

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2010
Messages
786
Location
Houston
ASP is one of the better known batons - almost generic like Band-Aid or Kool-Aid.
Armament Systems and Procedures, Inc. (ASP, Inc.)
https://www.asp-usa.com/store/batons.html

Ah, baton is definitely a term that I recognize as I've spent a little bit of time playing with those in classes over the years. I've not seriously considered carry one...knew a martial arts instructor who used to demo using his belt or even a tie as a way to disarm one...he would ask anyone who thought they were an expert at using a baton to see if they could even touch him with it. I never once saw that succeed (touching him I mean!). But can see the practical side of having one. Peter's must be smaller if it fits in his camera bag.

The only other toy that I do carry is a Benchmade pen series....that was a gift from some special friends.
 

Glockster

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2010
Messages
786
Location
Houston
I had one, but preferred my old PR-24.

Yeah, lots of practical applications of a good old PR-24. However....I have heard discussion of how that could possibly fall under "blackjack" under §18.2-308. But I suppose if the mood is right, a LEO could try to claim that a baton is also a blackjack. That's one of those frustrating things - §18.2-308 includes blackjacks, but I myself have never seen a VA definition of what that is, and I think that a simple Wikipedia search includes PR-24 and batons under the same category as "also called" blackjacks.
 

wrearick

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
650
Location
Virginia Beach, Va.
The tough one with the concealed knife regulation is the Bowie Knife. According to Wikipedia:

A Bowie knife (pronounced pron.: /ˈbuːiː/ BOO-ee[1][2][3] or pron.: /ˈboʊ.iː/ BOH-ee[3]) is a pattern of fixed-blade fighting knife first popularized by Colonel James "Jim" Bowie in the early 19th Century. Since the first incarnation was created by James Black, the Bowie knife has come to incorporate several recognizable and characteristic design features, although its common use refers to any large sheath knife with a crossguard and a clip point.[4]

Most knives that have a sheath have a crossguard. Had to look up what a clip point was.....from further down in the same wiki entry....

One characteristic of Bowie knives is the clip point at the top of the blade, which brings the tip of the blade lower than the spine for better control. As the goal is to produce a sharp, stabbing point, most Bowie knives have a bevel ground along the clip, typically 1/4 of the way, but sometimes much further running the entire top-edge. This is referred to as a false edge as from a distance it looks sharpened, although it may or may not be. Regardless of whether or not the false edge is sharp, it serves to take metal away from the point, streamlining the tip and thus enhancing the penetration capability of the blade during a stab.

Dang if that don't cover most of the knives in my collection that I would carry for self protection....:(
 

sparkman2

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
132
Location
Hampton Roads, Virginia
Several things were prominently not said about the troublemakers. What was mentioned that while there was no "official" sponsor of the events, they were all arranged via social media. Maybe I ought to stick a toe into the 21st Century and learn how that Twatter thing works? I hear that MyBook is circling the drain, so I'll only need to figure out FaceSpace. Is that right?

For those who are still not getting it, situational awareness no longer just means keeping your head on a swivel and the wax out of your ears. Having some notion of where things are going to "happen" helps avoid going stupid places where stupid people are going to be doing stupid things.

stay safe.

:lol: He said "Twatter"
 
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