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Thread: State Police OPEN CARRY Training Bulletin requested

  1. #1
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    State Police OPEN CARRY Training Bulletin requested

    To: All Connecticut residents who posses a valid Permit To Carry Pistols and Revolvers

    Information has been provided to www.ctgunright.com and www.ctcarry.com that the Department of Emergency Services and Public Protection issued and circulated a Training Bulletin regarding the topic of OPEN CARRY in CT.

    Information provided by a very reliable source leads me to believe that this Training Bulletin is approximately 3 pages in length and was circulated within the past several weeks.

    Based on the information provided to me regarding the content of this Training Bulletin, I believe that it will further document the postions taken by many individuals on this message boarrd that OPEN CARRY HAS BEEN AND IS legally permitted in CT.


    The following emailed FOI requestwas made late last night to obtain the Training Bulletin as soon as possible so that it may be shared with everyone on this message board.

    From: Edward Peruta [mailto:edperuta@amcable.tv]
    Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 10:32 PM
    To: 'reuben.bradford@ct.gov'; 'Alexandre, Henri'; 'terrence.oneill@ct.gov'
    Cc: 'Rachel Baird'; 'Rich Burgess'; BOFPE Susan Mazzoccoli
    Subject: Freedom of Information Request for Prompt Access to Public Records



    Commissioner Bradford,

    It has come to my attention today April 28th that your department has recently issued and circulated a TRAINING BULLETIN regarding OPEN CARRY of Pistols and Revolvers by those in possession of a Valid Permit to Carry.

    As you must be aware, this topic has been discussed and researched by countless individuals and members of law enforcement throughout the State of Connecticut.

    I have and do believe that every individual who possesses a Valid Permit to Carry should be informed of your agencies position of this topic.

    FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST FOR PROMPT ACCESS TO A PUBLIC RECORD.

    With this is mind, I request PROMPT ACCESS to ANY and ALL training bulletins or directives regarding the topic of individuals carrying pistols or revolvers while in possession of a Valid Permit to Carry.

    In the event that you or your legal staff have no knowledge of this reported training bulletin, I would like you to include the Commanding Officer of each of your barracks so that the reported document may be provided in a prompt manner.

    I am prepared to present myself to you or anyone you designate on Monday April 29th to review and possibly obtain the requested public record.

    I authorize the Office of Attorney Rachel M. Baird or Richard Burgess to act in my behalf in this matter.

    Please notify me at your earliest convenience so that I may make the appropriate plans to have someone at your headquarters.


    Respectfully,

    Edward A. Peruta
    American News and Information Services Inc.
    860-978-5455

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    State Police OPEN CARRY Training Bulletin requested

    That is one document I would like to see. Thank you Mr. Peruda.
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” —Samuel Adams

    "Here sir, the people govern." -- Alexander Hamilton (speech in the New York ratifying convention, 17 June 1788) Reference: The Debates of the Several State..., Elliot, vol. 2 (348)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." -- Thomas Jefferson

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    After reading the memo it looks to me like they are telling officers that its ok to ask for your permit and if you refuse to show it that they can arrest you for interfering with an investigation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeyburnout View Post
    After reading the memo it looks to me like they are telling officers that its ok to ask for your permit and if you refuse to show it that they can arrest you for interfering with an investigation.
    Sounds that way to me, too. Seems to make us a "must identify" state if we open carry, since carrying without your permit on your person is an infraction, similar to driving without your license on your person. The difference is that they can't stop you just to check your license, as a general rule, I believe (IANAL).

    Ed, thanks for getting this document. It does set a standard we can use.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Stop and identify is not the law in Connecticut, but this is simply the next stage of the fight. The line has moved forward. Lets take a moment and breath before we spend all our time worrying about the next step.
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    what was the purpose of getting and releasing this memo? When was this memo issued? Another great job of not DATING documents.

    A citizen should not put too much weight into this document. It will mean nothing in court and it was not intended for that purpose.

    This memo is obsolete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    what was the purpose of getting and releasing this memo? When was this memo issued? Another great job of not DATING documents.

    A citizen should not put too much weight into this document. It will mean nothing in court and it was not intended for that purpose.

    This memo is obsolete.
    I think I have to disagree with you. The document may not be dated but it is numbered #2013-01 I believe that makes it an official document which WOULD stand up in court and also would be traceable by that number.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Mitola View Post
    I think I have to disagree with you. The document may not be dated but it is numbered #2013-01 I believe that makes it an official document which WOULD stand up in court and also would be traceable by that number.
    Stand up in court for what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Mitola View Post
    I think I have to disagree with you. The document may not be dated but it is numbered #2013-01 I believe that makes it an official document which WOULD stand up in court and also would be traceable by that number.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Mitola View Post
    I think I have to disagree with you. The document may not be dated but it is numbered #2013-01 I believe that makes it an official document which WOULD stand up in court and also would be traceable by that number.
    Believe me ... this document is not your friend ..

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    I still think this is a document advocating the violation of 4th amendment rights. Sounds like 1step forward and 2 steps back.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeyburnout View Post
    I still think this is a document advocating the violation of 4th amendment rights. Sounds like 1step forward and 2 steps back.
    So the line used to be that people (and some cops) thought that BoP was totally fine to arrest people for. And they did on occassion.

    Now the line is that the most they will do is request your permit.

    Where is the step back?


    Now we need to fight the permit request issue. That is the new line. We all know it is not reasonable per Terry, Hiibel and others, but that is what the fight is about.
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    I see it as a step back when you have to give up one right to excersize another. I understand that its good that they are acknowledging that it is lawful to OC in Connecticut but are basicly giving their officers a way to backdoor that acknowledgment by forcing people to give up their rights. After all, what change has been made if at the end of the day they drempt up a different reason to arrest you for the same act just under a different charge?

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    State Police OPEN CARRY Training Bulletin requested

    Quote Originally Posted by smokeyburnout View Post
    I see it as a step back when you have to give up one right to excersize another. I understand that its good that they are acknowledging that it is lawful to OC in Connecticut but are basicly giving their officers a way to backdoor that acknowledgment by forcing people to give up their rights. After all, what change has been made if at the end of the day they drempt up a different reason to arrest you for the same act just under a different charge?
    That doesn't make sense. You would have been arrested, permit or not before. Now you can choose to preset your permit or fight it.

    I don't think you have thought this through at all. How can they just arrest you for the same act but for a different charge now? You can just supply your permit if you don't want to challenge it.

    And further, at the end of the day, you can still just not OC. Just like before.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeyburnout View Post
    I still think this is a document advocating the violation of 4th amendment rights. Sounds like 1step forward and 2 steps back.
    It is exactly that .... and would be used to thwart 1983 claims ... unfortunately, we likely cannot see draft records that ended up with this being the final one ... our FOIA act exempts "drafts" but if the final one is meant to violate our rights maybe we can get the drafts ...

    I'll shoot off a follow-up FOI if nobody else wants to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    That doesn't make sense. You would have been arrested, permit or not before. Now you can choose to preset your permit or fight it.

    I don't think you have thought this through at all. How can they just arrest you for the same act but for a different charge now? You can just supply your permit if you don't want to challenge it.

    And further, at the end of the day, you can still just not OC. Just like before.
    It's not that you would have been arrested before its that you could have. The same as now. Just under a different pretense. I was stopped before this memo came out and wasnt arrested. I suppose we will just have to see how it plays out. In reading the memo i just see another reason for a cop to arrest you even if its illegal

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    State Police OPEN CARRY Training Bulletin requested

    Quote Originally Posted by smokeyburnout View Post
    It's not that you would have been arrested before its that you could have. The same as now. Just under a different pretense.
    Again. Nonsense.

    The only way under the memo to be arrested is if you refuse to show a permit or ID yourself.
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    Which would make it another reason to hassle you for OC and force you to give up a right to excersize another.
    Would you feel better if they put out a memo saying its not against the law to speak your mind in public but if you refuse to id yourself you could be arrested? How is this any different?
    They realize that OC is legal but in the same breath say its fine to demand your permit. To me that's wrong and if you don't see how that's wrong then im sorry. And to say all you have to do is cc on a website titled opencarry.org is nonsence.

  20. #20
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    State Police OPEN CARRY Training Bulletin requested

    Quote Originally Posted by smokeyburnout View Post
    Which would make it another reason to hassle you for OC and force you to give up a right to excersize another.
    Would you feel better if they put out a memo saying its not against the law to speak your mind in public but if you refuse to id yourself you could be arrested? How is this any different?
    They realize that OC is legal but in the same breath say its fine to demand your permit. To me that's wrong and if you don't see how that's wrong then im sorry. And to say all you have to do is cc on a website titled opencarry.org is nonsence.
    Well ok then. Clearly you are right. Going from being arrested straight off to simply being IDed and let go is going backwards.

    I guess this is the twilight zone and I didn't realize it.

    Good luck out there.
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    Ummm before this memo came out i was stopped by state police for OC and wasn't arrested. Saying that as soon as you were seen by police you would be arrested is just false. Would some police do that? Im sure they did.
    Im not completely disagreeing with you. I agree that its good that they realize its lawful to open carry but i do not approve of a memo that acknowledges 1 right while trampling another

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeyburnout View Post
    Ummm before this memo came out i was stopped by state police for OC and wasn't arrested. Saying that as soon as you were seen by police you would be arrested is just false. Would some police do that? Im sure they did.
    Im not completely disagreeing with you. I agree that its good that they realize its lawful to open carry but i do not approve of a memo that acknowledges 1 right while trampling another
    I agree with this.
    previously, people were getting arrested for simply OC'ing.
    now, they know and acknowledge that OC is legal, and can't/won't arrest for it, but they are now pretty much being told to stop and demand to see a permit from anyone and everyone they see OC'ing, and arrest them if they don't provide a permit for whatever reason.

    granted anyone carrying should have their permit, and displaying it to the officer should theoretically allow them to immediately leave without hassle. but to demand ID from anyone seen OC'ing is still illegal as most people know. guess we'll just see how this pans out over time. I'll be OC'ing a lot more now that it's warmer out, I'll report back on whatever I discover in my daily routines
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    State Police OPEN CARRY Training Bulletin requested

    The ID demand is simply the next step in the process. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Saying it is a step backwards or that it made things worse is ridiculous. Keep perspective.
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    Let's hope the Identification demand doesn't also develop into mandatory magazine checks when stopped (to insure compliance with the 10-round limit).

    I could see it happening along the lines of what was going on before in California with the unloaded open-carry checks; stopped, disarmed, mag ejected and checked. That sort of thing.

    Hope it doesn't happen in Connecticut, but I could see it as a way "they" could make OC more of an inconvenience versus CC (the stop never occurring in the first place).
    Let a man never stir on his road a step without his weapons of war; for unsure is the knowing when need shall arise of a spear on the way without. -Hávamál 38

  25. #25
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    State Police OPEN CARRY Training Bulletin requested

    Where is the 'e' check in our statutes?
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