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Thread: Lakeside mall rent-a-cop tells me I can't OC on public road.

  1. #1
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    Lakeside mall rent-a-cop tells me I can't OC on public road.

    Been OCing almost everywhere I have went over the last few weeks. nothing major to report until Friday.

    My son and I were leaving the credit union behind Lakeside mall. We were on the public road the runs between Schoner and Hall raod. We witnessed a BWM plow into a young lady in a buick. The accident was bad enough I stopped to ensure everyone was OK. The lady in the Buick was banged up and frantic about her newborn baby in the back seat. I calmed her down, crawled into the back to make sure the baby was safe. He was fine, asleep and unaware of what just happened.

    Upon exiting the car a Lakeside mall wannabe cop had arrived on scene and upon seeing my sidearm started litterally screaming at me "Guns aren't allowed on Lakeside property. Get off our property NOW!!!!"

    When I explained it was a public road NOT lakeside property and he has absolutely no right nor power to ask me to leave a public place he started going ballistic, screaming and yelling I was going to jail. I said I stopped to ensure everyone was alright, if he didn't like it, too bad I wasn't leaving until I was sure every was OK. Since it was quite obvious he had no medical training telling everyone to get out of their car after the accident.

    I told the woman who was injured to remain in her car until paramedics arrived and could verify she had no neck/back injuries. This made him even madder he said "I told her to get out of the car. Who the hell are you to tell her to stay in there" my response was "I told her to remain in her car until paramedics arrive and make sure she has no injuries. It is quite apparent you are as ignorant about medical proceedures as you are gun laws."

    With that he went off to call in more mall cop backup, he was quite frustrated I was not yielding to his authority. About 5 minutes later cops and paramedics arrived. Paramedics said I did the right thing telling her to stay put. Clinton Township and Macpmb Sheriff had no problem with me OCing and I believe one of them went and tried to explaining the law to the guard who was seething at this point.

    A public road crossing private property is still a public road. Even if it is a service drive. if it has stop signs and speed limit signs and the county plows it in the winter it's public and he has absolutely no authority to ask anyone to leave.

    Once everyone was being taken care of by the paramedics, I figured it was time to go before the situation escalated beyond what had already happened. By this point another 6-7 mall cops arrived on scene.

    As I always say "No good deed goes unpunished." I stopped to be a nice guy and make sure everyone was OK after the accident, didn't expect to have a showdown with Barney Fife.

    Dealing with mall cops is like herding cats.
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Curious - was the Mall cop armed? Did he try and approach you?

    Glad it turned out OK. Good Samaritan on your part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Curious - was the Mall cop armed? Did he try and approach you?

    Glad it turned out OK. Good Samaritan on your part.
    No he wasn't armed, probably jealous I can carry and he can't.

    As soon as I exited the car after checking on the baby he was just there and as soon as he saw my sidearm that's when the yelling started. He must have drove up while I was in the car and not paying attention.
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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    If your mall cops are like the mall cops here, he was about three sandwiches shy of a picnic. The mall cops I've seen here are in two varieties; 1. Male, either hugely overweight or skeletally skinny, and trying to pick up whichever gender suits their orientation or 2. Female, same as male, and much more interested in gossiping with their acquaintances than anything else.

    What is really comical is watching one, of either gender, wearing an equipment belt loaded with more crap than most legitimate cops carry, trying to unobtrusively watch someone they suspect of shoplifting!!

    OP, you done good in acting as you did.
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    good job standing your ground Hevy
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 04-29-2013 at 09:57 AM.
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    You showed great composure --- --------- --- ---. You have earned a star today !

    I have removed people from cars after an accident - when the car was on fire; generally the only reason (immediate greater harm possible from staying) to move someone...although paramedic's expertise is limited, they can check for major major issues. Soon they'll have the tools to aide them better .. hard to do a MRI in a car~in 50yrs? They'll likely be able to do it, but then we may no longer have cars.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-02-2013 at 06:31 PM. Reason: Mod edited

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Lakeside mall rent-a-cop tells me I can't OC on public road.

    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    good job standing your ground Hevy
    +1! Now my question is what if the emergency responders took longer to arrive? Was the gang of mall cops going to rush you? Uhm unarmed or not, if a mob of people attempt to physically pin someone who is legally carrying they should expect lead poisoning....retards...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hevymetal View Post
    No he wasn't armed, probably jealous I can carry and he can't.

    As soon as I exited the car after checking on the baby he was just there and as soon as he saw my sidearm that's when the yelling started. He must have drove up while I was in the car and not paying attention.
    It's their only means of defense and to intimidate folks in an attempt to prove how authoritative, 10-foot-tall and bullet-proof they are. As a volunteer reserve for nearly 25 years combined now, for two agencies, I can tell you out of all the "Professionals" who work in uniform, there's NOTHING worse, for the most part, than dealing or working with mall ninjas, armed or unarmed. And yes, unfortunately, I work armed security for a tiny paycheck that, a few times per year, pays the monthly bills.

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    Mall Ninjas

    It’s funny to read how much everyone hates mall cops. I’m one of those “mall ninjas”. We are not all dumb and trying to so how big and tuff we all. Most of us are just trying to do a job get paid and go home. i mean yes there are some dumb ones sure. i work with a few. but some are good people too.

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    Re: Lakeside mall rent-a-cop tells me I can't OC on public road.

    Bad apples populate every job type... Of course not all security guards are idiots.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeepen View Post
    It’s funny to read how much everyone hates mall cops. I’m one of those “mall ninjas”. We are not all dumb and trying to so how big and tuff we all. Most of us are just trying to do a job get paid and go home. i mean yes there are some dumb ones sure. i work with a few. but some are good people too.
    It's only the a**hats that are hated. Some people use "mall cop" or "mall ninja" just in reference to the a**hats. Bottom line: it's the a**hats we're talking about. The rest of you professional guys are "security".

    There's a difference between professional security and mall cop/mall ninja. You know it when you see (or hear) it. Internally, don't you guys make fun of/criticize/dislike those co-workers? Do you try to peer pressure them with friendly advice or at least ridicule to get them back to reality?
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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeepen View Post
    I’m one of those “mall ninjas”.
    Gecko45, is that you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    Gecko45, is that you?
    Couldn't be. No duct tape was mentioned.

    To the OP - kudos for what you did. Not sure I would not have reported the mall ninja to his boss for trying to force the female driver to get out of the car. Gee, I wonder how the mall and the security company they contracted with would look at the liability minefield he just created? ::whistling, scuffing toe in dirt - just dreaming::

    It just struck me - most folks employed as private security are required (state regs or company policy) to be ceretified in at least basic Red Cross First Aid. Moving of accident victims is covered in basic Red Cross First Aid - they say to leave things alone unless there is a greater danger by doing so. Michigan does not give him protection under the Good Samaritan Law (Liability of Certain Persons for Emergency Care, MCL Act 17 of 1963) so his decision to move the lady would most likely be seen by any personal injury lawyer as the unlicensed practice of medicine - http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(ucr...light=medicine

    PUBLIC HEALTH CODE (EXCERPT) Act 368 of 1978
    Section 333.17011
    333.17011 License or authorization required; granting license to individuals meeting certain requirements; prohibition; conditions for granting license; use of words, titles, or letters.
    Sec. 17011.

    (1) An individual shall not engage in the practice of medicine or practice as a physician's assistant unless licensed or otherwise authorized by this article. An individual shall not engage in teaching or research that requires the practice of medicine unless the individual is licensed or otherwise authorized by this article.
    I'd nail the SOB just because he was/is an @$$hat. But then I'm known to be calm, kind, and understanding.

    stay safe.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Good job OP - sorry you got trash talked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Couldn't be. No duct tape was mentioned.

    To the OP - kudos for what you did. Not sure I would not have reported the mall ninja to his boss for trying to force the female driver to get out of the car. Gee, I wonder how the mall and the security company they contracted with would look at the liability minefield he just created? ::whistling, scuffing toe in dirt - just dreaming::

    It just struck me - most folks employed as private security are required (state regs or company policy) to be ceretified in at least basic Red Cross First Aid. Moving of accident victims is covered in basic Red Cross First Aid - they say to leave things alone unless there is a greater danger by doing so. Michigan does not give him protection under the Good Samaritan Law (Liability of Certain Persons for Emergency Care, MCL Act 17 of 1963) so his decision to move the lady would most likely be seen by any personal injury lawyer as the unlicensed practice of medicine - http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(ucr...light=medicine

    I'd nail the SOB just because he was/is an @$$hat. But then I'm known to be calm, kind, and understanding.

    stay safe.

    I had been trained as a first responder many years ago when I was on the fire department. First responder and Firefighting I training taught us as the first thing DON"T move the victim unless, as you said there was a greater danger of leaving them there (fire, etc.)

    There was no way in hell I was gonna let that poor woman get out and potentially hurt herself more because some untrained idiot thought he knew better. No matter how much he threatened or tried to intimidate me it wasn't gonna work. I stopped for her benefit, not his.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeepen View Post
    It’s funny to read how much everyone hates mall cops. I’m one of those “mall ninjas”. We are not all dumb and trying to so how big and tuff we all. Most of us are just trying to do a job get paid and go home. i mean yes there are some dumb ones sure. i work with a few. but some are good people too.
    I don't hate security guards.

    I do hate ignorant, arrogant morons who try and flaunt their non-existant authority and won't admit that they may be wrong about something. Even when their error is explained to them in a calm, rational and concise manner. They refuse to believe "THEY" could be wrong.
    "God created man, Sam Colt made them equal."

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    Re: Lakeside mall rent-a-cop tells me I can't OC on public road.

    As has been stated, there are Security Guards, and there are Mall Ninjas.

    Nobody gets along with MNs, with the exception of other MNs. Their tirades can usually be thwarted by asking them if they got the email blast from (insert big name police supply, I default to Galls) about a sale on tac vests/pepper spray/badge wallets/body armor/etc. They will typically think you're cool, you know what you're doing (you must, because you think like them!), and will either back off or offer assistance.

    I know nobody likes MNs, but, in my experiences with them, I have found this tactic to work the best for most situations.

    OP, kudos on doing the right thing for the accident victims as well as not pummeling the MN just for General Principles.
    Last edited by b0neZ; 05-03-2013 at 10:50 AM.

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    B0neZ must be a mall ninja master ... he is wise

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    Re: Lakeside mall rent-a-cop tells me I can't OC on public road.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    he is wise
    Some would argue that assessment.

    I used to work in that field as a supervisor (no malls, thankfully). I had to learn how to communicate efficiently with all kinds of people.

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    Re: Mall Cop

    Okay, first of all I would like to say I am one of the Lakeside Mall cops and I don't appreciate you slamming the entire dept over an incident you're butt hurt over. Save your sob story in regards to that. Also, I don't know who you delt with or who the officer was that you came in contact with, but the officers here are professional and either current or retired military and current or retired LEO's (That's Law Enforcement Officer...keep up junior) or going into the Law Enforcement field.

    Secondly, there is no road that connects Schoenherr and Hall. There are 'finger roads' that are public through-ways that you can turn onto off of Hayes, Schoenherr, and Hall, but they all lead to Lakeside Circle, which is mall owned property. If you're on the outskirts of Lakeside Circle, have a ball. Show off your fancy gun and what-not. Once you step onto Lakeside Circle, it's considered private property and you're under our direction. Just wanted to clarify that with you.

    As far as MCSO, they won't show up here unless there is a serious accident. Again, because it's private property, us "mall ninjas" have to deal with it. We have a hard enough time getting sterling here on an accident. But, we are medically trained, as well as able to write parking citations and accident reports for the police department.

    I'm all for the 2nd amendment. I'm about as pro gun as it gets. But rules are rules and laws are laws. It's life. Deal with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgillette89 View Post
    Okay, first of all I would like to say I am one of the Lakeside Mall cops and I don't appreciate you slamming the entire dept over an incident you're butt hurt over. Save your sob story in regards to that. Also, I don't know who you delt with or who the officer was that you came in contact with, but the officers here are professional and either current or retired military and current or retired LEO's (That's Law Enforcement Officer...keep up junior) or going into the Law Enforcement field.

    I'm all for the 2nd amendment. I'm about as pro gun as it gets. But rules are rules and laws are laws. It's life. Deal with it.
    That would explain why he was trying to bark orders at OP.

    By the way, OP didn't say anything bad about the department, or the other security officers that showed up. (he simply said they came when he called for back up) He was only talking about that specific individual, judging by how strongly you feel about this, one might think it was you he dealt with.

    Also, LEO, is an acronym we use here allot, and allot of other acronyms, but I'm not going to school you on them or call you Junior and tell you to keep up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgillette89 View Post

    I'm all for the 2nd amendment. I'm about as pro gun as it gets. But rules are rules and laws are laws. It's life. Deal with it.
    Hey, if you are going to quote Obamalama, I would appreciate a reference to it.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgillette89 View Post
    Okay, first of all I would like to say I am one of the Lakeside Mall cops and I don't appreciate you slamming the entire dept over an incident you're butt hurt over. Save your sob story in regards to that. Also, I don't know who you delt with or who the officer was that you came in contact with, but the officers here are professional and either current or retired military and current or retired LEO's (That's Law Enforcement Officer...keep up junior) or going into the Law Enforcement field.

    Secondly, there is no road that connects Schoenherr and Hall. There are 'finger roads' that are public through-ways that you can turn onto off of Hayes, Schoenherr, and Hall, but they all lead to Lakeside Circle, which is mall owned property. If you're on the outskirts of Lakeside Circle, have a ball. Show off your fancy gun and what-not. Once you step onto Lakeside Circle, it's considered private property and you're under our direction. Just wanted to clarify that with you.

    As far as MCSO, they won't show up here unless there is a serious accident. Again, because it's private property, us "mall ninjas" have to deal with it. We have a hard enough time getting sterling here on an accident. But, we are medically trained, as well as able to write parking citations and accident reports for the police department.

    I'm all for the 2nd amendment. I'm about as pro gun as it gets. But rules are rules and laws are laws. It's life. Deal with it.
    talk about a sob story...
    i definitely see a HUGE case of gun envy here.

    "I'm about as pro gun as it gets."
    AND
    "Show off your fancy gun and what-not."

    sorry mall ninja, those two statements are mutually exclusive. care to rephrase? anyone who is TRULY "about as pro gun as it gets" does not throw around insults about guns being for show off. if you are a former LEO or military (as i am) you need to get over yourself. cops are not the only people cool enough to "show off your fancy gun."
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgillette89 View Post
    Okay, first of all I would like to say I am one of the Lakeside Mall cops and I don't appreciate you slamming the entire dept over an incident you're butt hurt over. Save your sob story in regards to that. Also, I don't know who you delt with or who the officer was that you came in contact with, but the officers here are professional and either current or retired military and current or retired LEO's (That's Law Enforcement Officer...keep up junior) or going into the Law Enforcement field.

    Secondly, there is no road that connects Schoenherr and Hall. There are 'finger roads' that are public through-ways that you can turn onto off of Hayes, Schoenherr, and Hall, but they all lead to Lakeside Circle, which is mall owned property. If you're on the outskirts of Lakeside Circle, have a ball. Show off your fancy gun and what-not. Once you step onto Lakeside Circle, it's considered private property and you're under our direction. Just wanted to clarify that with you.

    As far as MCSO, they won't show up here unless there is a serious accident. Again, because it's private property, us "mall ninjas" have to deal with it. We have a hard enough time getting sterling here on an accident. But, we are medically trained, as well as able to write parking citations and accident reports for the police department.

    I'm all for the 2nd amendment. I'm about as pro gun as it gets. But rules are rules and laws are laws. It's life. Deal with it.

    Speaking of butt hurt

  24. #24
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgillette89 View Post
    Okay, first of all I would like to say I am one of the Lakeside Mall cops and I don't appreciate you slamming the entire dept over an incident you're butt hurt over. Save your sob story in regards to that. Also, I don't know who you delt with or who the officer was that you came in contact with, but the officers here are professional and either current or retired military and current or retired LEO's (That's Law Enforcement Officer...keep up junior) or going into the Law Enforcement field.

    Secondly, there is no road that connects Schoenherr and Hall. There are 'finger roads' that are public through-ways that you can turn onto off of Hayes, Schoenherr, and Hall, but they all lead to Lakeside Circle, which is mall owned property. If you're on the outskirts of Lakeside Circle, have a ball. Show off your fancy gun and what-not. Once you step onto Lakeside Circle, it's considered private property and you're under our direction. Just wanted to clarify that with you.

    As far as MCSO, they won't show up here unless there is a serious accident. Again, because it's private property, us "mall ninjas" have to deal with it. We have a hard enough time getting sterling here on an accident. But, we are medically trained, as well as able to write parking citations and accident reports for the police department.

    I'm all for the 2nd amendment. I'm about as pro gun as it gets. But rules are rules and laws are laws. It's life. Deal with it.
    What kind of medical training do you receive? I am not Marcus Welby MD but even I know you don't move an injured person from an accident unless there is a greater imminent threat... Also it seems you are also glorified meter maids, well done!
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    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=skidmark;1933017]

    Michigan does not give him protection under the Good Samaritan Law (Liability of Certain Persons for Emergency Care, MCL Act 17 of 1963) so his decision to move the lady would most likely be seen by any personal injury lawyer as the unlicensed practice of medicine - http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(ucr...light=medicine




    Yes, Michigan does has a Good Samaritan Law. I have been certified in AED and CPR since high school and we were informed of this in class.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(pht...e=mcl-691-1504

    As a matter of fact, Michigan is one of the 17 states that has the best Good Samaritan laws.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2239336/

    While I am not a lawyer, I believe the MCL you posted is about having to have a license to practice medicine. (Not helping someone in need, when they otherwise could not do it themselves.)
    Last edited by OneForAll; 07-30-2013 at 12:57 PM. Reason: Added information
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    Some random person, "I will not give up safety because of a few misplaced concerns of the uneducated." end quote...

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