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Thread: To Limit Federal Agencies’ Ammunition Purchases

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    To Limit Federal Agencies’ Ammunition Purchases

    Republican Senator Jim Inhofe (OK) and Rep. Frank Lucas (OK) have introduced a bill, Ammunition Management for More Obtainability (AMMO) Act of 2013, in their respective chambers, that would prohibit every federal agency, except the military, from purchasing more ammunition each month, than the monthly average it purchased from 2001 to 2009. This comes as questions surround the large number of solicitations by federal agencies for ammunition and weapons purchases and the apparent stockpiling of ammunition by the Department of Homeland Security.

    Read more: http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/04/bi...#ixzz2Rvrf3N6h

    Tell your Senator and Representative to get on board with this! Spread the word far and wide.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 04-30-2013 at 04:19 AM.
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    I doubt it will pass. The benefit, though, is that it is bringing the government hoarding of ammo into the mainstream media and public discussion. Right now, the mainstream media is ignoring this story and public discussions are limited to folks like us who watch this stuff.

    I have to wonder how effective the government's actions are. I, like many others, have more ammo (and more guns) than ever before. This stuff may not be on the shelves, but it is in the hands of the People!

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    All this hoarding is infringing on my right to fill up my 30 round mags (I don't care who is doing it).
    Last edited by beebobby; 04-30-2013 at 09:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    All this hoarding is infringing on my right to fill up my 30 round mags (I don't care who is doing it).
    You filling up your 30 round mags is infringing upon my right to hoard.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    --snip--The benefit...is that it is bringing the government hoarding of ammo into the mainstream media and public discussion. Right now, the mainstream media is ignoring this story and public discussions are limited to folks like us who watch this stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    All this hoarding is infringing on my right to fill up my 30 round mags (I don't care who is doing it).
    Of course the goal is the renewed normal availability of ammunition to the legal, general population. To do that we must shine a very bright light on the causes and reasons for this contrived shortage. Manufacturers are producing ammo at record levels, yet an insufficient amount reaches the open market.

    Identifying the who and why of this from the top down is a beginning to achieving parity. Correcting flow, the law of supply and demand will work to stabilize the market value/price of this commodity.

    Meanwhile, some people can't pay too much as there isn't any realistic amount of ammo to be had.....at any price.

    Let's fix this. Let's get it done!
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    You filling up your 30 round mags is infringing upon my right to hoard.
    Hoarding has no constitutional protection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    All this hoarding is infringing on my right to fill up my 30 round mags (I don't care who is doing it).
    And my 100 rd mags .... gobble gobble gobble ...

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    To Limit Federal Agencies’ Ammunition Purchases

    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    All this hoarding is infringing on my right to fill up my 30 round mags (I don't care who is doing it).
    im offended at the word hoarder. my 14,000 rds of ammo isnt hoarding... its not enough

    lol (sarc)
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Anybody have any thoughts/reaction on topic rather than how much ammunition you have or claim to have?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Anybody have any thoughts/reaction on topic rather than how much ammunition you have or claim to have?
    No

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    No
    I'm disappointed then.

    Would have thought that the availability of ammunition and the cost of same would have been a legitimate concern for those interested in staying proficient in the various aspects of our RKBA.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    To Limit Federal Agencies’ Ammunition Purchases

    I believe federal government law enforcement agencies should be capped to a year's worth of ammo for training and duty loads. Having so much ammo on hand for domestic use is the equivalent of the founders' concerns of a standing army, in my opinion.

    Why a year? I say a year because it should be a fiscal budget item and purchased or ordered on that interval. The Feds would be hard pressed to show an argument that would justify more than that. Even if a SHTF moment would not expend a year's worth of ammo unless we are invaded by another country. Such an occasion would be handled militarily and not by gold badges that say "special agent."

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    A law (even if it had a chance of passing) is not the solution to the problem.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    ^^^THIS^^^

    How about a private sector solution; ammo manufacturers do not sell to the fedgov more than a years worth of ammo. Congress critters could reduce the DHS's budget by the amount they have spent on ammo in next years budget. Better yet, defund the DHS.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    What with the US having the most expensive, powerful standing miltary force in the history of the world, the concerns of the founding fathers on that concept are moot. We aren't going to turn that back. This whole ammo shortage is frustrating to several of my friends who want to take the CCW class, but can't find the ammo to take it. Even .22lr.
    Last edited by beebobby; 05-01-2013 at 09:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    A law (even if it had a chance of passing) is not the solution to the problem.
    Yes it is, though the law mentioned in the OP would be just a start. After passing an Ammunition Management bill, we should move to begin passing a Federal Government Management bill. That would set a schedule for the ultimate dismantling of the DHS, the BATF etc. If the agencies are shrunken and then eliminated, there will be no budget to buy ammo.

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    Re: To Limit Federal Agencies’ Ammunition Purchases

    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ^^^THIS^^^

    How about a private sector solution; ammo manufacturers do not sell to the fedgov more than a years worth of ammo. Congress critters could reduce the DHS's budget by the amount they have spent on ammo in next years budget. Better yet, defund the DHS.
    Dhs is the biggest waste of money and man power. If people want to do bad things to others, dhs isn't going to stop them.

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    I'm wondereing about the shortage of .22lr. Does anyone know whether or not the feds are buying up the .22s or is the shortage due to private sector hoarding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    I'm wondereing about the shortage of .22lr. Does anyone know whether or not the feds are buying up the .22s or is the shortage due to private sector hoarding?
    Goggle "why shortage of .22 ammo" and read to your heart's content.
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    To Limit Federal Agencies’ Ammunition Purchases

    The same brass is used to make .22 ammo as to make larger ammo.

    The same lead is used to make .22 ammo as to make larger ammo.

    The same powder is used to make .22 ammo as to make larger ammo.

    The same manpower is used to make .22 ammo as to make larger ammo.

    The same facilities are used to make .22 ammo as to make larger ammo.

    When the resources get scarce, which ammo do you think they will use the fewest limited resources on? I'd say .22 (which we sell for 4 to 7 cents a round). They will produce the larger rounds that have a higher profit margin. Resources are limited for two main factors (both the result of government actions). One, the threat to pass anti-gun legislation after Sandy Hook prompted gun owners to stockpile firearms and ammo. Two, DHS's huge ammo buy also increased demand. Demand way outstripped supply, which ironically caused further concern in the market, prompting more stockpiling.

    For example, I now have more ammo than I have ever had in my life, yet I will buy more when I get the chance because I don't know if it will be available when I need it.

    Things should shake out pretty soon. Gun demand has already dropped to pre-Sandy Hook levels. Ammo demand still remains high due to lack of availability. Once supply catches up with demand, a glut will actually develop as folks shoot through a lot of their stockpile without replacing all of it.


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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I'm disappointed then.

    Would have thought that the availability of ammunition and the cost of same would have been a legitimate concern for those interested in staying proficient in the various aspects of our RKBA.
    Nah. All the hoarders are busy feeling smug for thinking they predicted something that nobody else did (when in fact everybody else did). Everybody else has already expressed their annoyance.

    Frankly, I think DHS agents should be supplied with ammo in accordance with the poverty line.

    No, strike that. I think DHS agents should be disarmed, right before being summarily fired.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: if newbies can't buy .22, and to a lesser extent .223 and 9mm, then the 2nd amendment is on the slow road to irrelevance. It's just that simple. Keep that in mind next time you buy more than you need. Keep that in mind when faced with supporting or opposing government ammunition purchasing.
    Last edited by marshaul; 05-01-2013 at 03:13 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ^^^THIS^^^

    How about a private sector solution; ammo manufacturers do not sell to the fedgov more than a years worth of ammo. Congress critters could reduce the DHS's budget by the amount they have spent on ammo in next years budget. Better yet, defund the DHS.
    As a practical matter, defunding the DHS would require (wait for it)... A LAW.

    Laws are the best thing since sliced bread when they limit government. Imagine how great the world would be if every law prohibiting some trivial and irrelevant personal action was traded for a law preventing some or other government action.

    Kind of making me drool just thinking about it.

    Waiting for "private sector solutions" in a distorted market, where government creates artificial and anti-productive incentives, is like waiting for hell to freeze over.

    Otherwise, the parasitic and anti-productive military industrial complex would have shriveled to a decent, sustainable size decades ago.
    Last edited by marshaul; 05-01-2013 at 03:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    As a practical matter, defunding the DHS would require (wait for it)... A LAW.

    Laws are the best thing since sliced bread when they limit government. Imagine how great the world would be if every law prohibiting some trivial and irrelevant personal action was traded for a law preventing some or other government action.

    Kind of making me drool just thinking about it.

    Waiting for "private sector solutions" in a distorted market, where government creates artificial and anti-productive incentives, is like waiting for hell to freeze over.

    Otherwise, the parasitic and anti-productive military industrial complex would have shriveled to a decent, sustainable size decades ago.
    Obviously it takes a law the (wait for it)... FEDERAL BUDGET, also (wait for it)... NOT a NEW law. Funny how government works.

    I like your trading laws scheme.

    I will obey a law to not pick my nose in public, even when kids are not around, if the GFSZ Act is stricken from the books....fair trade it seems to me.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Obviously it takes a law the (wait for it)... FEDERAL BUDGET, also (wait for it)... NOT a NEW law. Funny how government works.

    I like your trading laws scheme.

    I will obey a law to not pick my nose in public, even when kids are not around, if the GFSZ Act is stricken from the books....fair trade it seems to me.
    With all due respect, you're delusional if you think we've had a president since Bush I who would even consider submitting a budget with anything but increased "defense" spending.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    With all due respect, you're delusional if you think we've had a president since Bush I who would even consider submitting a budget with anything but increased "defense" spending.
    Calling me delusional if I think 'X' is not being respectful. Anyway...

    I do not disagree with your assessment of how the fedgov really works. I merely pointed to the fact that a new (a law that did did not exist before, the "budget law" is technically a "new" law every year) law is not required to be passed to accomplish a great many good things that limit the fedgov.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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