People in the shadows

I've been asked to post a little about people who are directly related to these court cases and the issues that are likely to become cases.

They would like to post and tell the whole story but can't. It's extremely important for them to just watch for now and let their Attorney do his work.

There are multiple cases. The Attorney has to maintain ethical standards and his clients are well advised to keep quiet until it's time to speak.

Grapeshot and Skidmark will do their best to keep everyone up on what's happening and I'm looking into a lot of things, waiting for FOIA's to come in and doing a lot of research before I put anything out.

Thanks!

peter nap said:

I've been asked to post a little about people who are directly related to these court cases and the issues that are likely to become cases.

They would like to post and tell the whole story but can't. It's extremely important for them to just watch for now and let their Attorney do his work.

There are multiple cases. The Attorney has to maintain ethical standards and his clients are well advised to keep quiet until it's time to speak.

Grapeshot and Skidmark will do their best to keep everyone up on what's happening and I'm looking into a lot of things, waiting for FOIA's to come in and doing a lot of research before I put anything out.

Thanks!

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I've thought about posting this before and suppose that this thread is as good as any other....it's been mentioned that some things were filed yesterday. I think that it would be very helpful for those of us trying to follow the bouncing ball to be able to actually see the ball. Meaning, if something has been filed it is now on record (well, unless we're talking FOIA rather than legal filings) and so I think that it would be beneficial to provide a link if the document is available off the court sites, or otherwise the party(ies) names that actions are filed under along with which court so that we can then go look for them.

drdan01 said:

I've thought about posting this before and suppose that this thread is as good as any other....it's been mentioned that some things were filed yesterday. I think that it would be very helpful for those of us trying to follow the bouncing ball to be able to actually see the ball. Meaning, if something has been filed it is now on record (well, unless we're talking FOIA rather than legal filings) and so I think that it would be beneficial to provide a link if the document is available off the court sites, or otherwise the party(ies) names that actions are filed under along with which court so that we can then go look for them.

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Just curious, if you were one of the people injustly arrested and folks were working hard on your defense, would you want every little step of the way posted on a public forum?

drdan01 said:

I've thought about posting this before and suppose that this thread is as good as any other....it's been mentioned that some things were filed yesterday. I think that it would be very helpful for those of us trying to follow the bouncing ball to be able to actually see the ball. Meaning, if something has been filed it is now on record (well, unless we're talking FOIA rather than legal filings) and so I think that it would be beneficial to provide a link if the document is available off the court sites, or otherwise the party(ies) names that actions are filed under along with which court so that we can then go look for them.

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FOIA's Dan, and a bunch of them.

If I say something about filing, I'm either just the delivery boy for someone or filing FOIA's. I'll be picking up copies of filings from the courts in the next couple of days (Planned on doing it this morning but I need to go and listen to the Petersburg Clerk tell her story today).

I think I can tell some of what's in those papers, just nt some of the behind the scenes information.

Blk97F150 said:

Just curious, if you were one of the people injustly arrested and folks were working hard on your defense, would you want every little step of the way posted on a public forum?

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I think you misunderstood what I posted. Nobody said anything about "every little step of the way" as all that I'm asking about is to know what public information is available. One way to support those unjustly arrested is to shine light into the dark corners that those who did the arresting don't want us to see. They don't want to hear about their actions being made public, discussed openly. The more informed we are, the better able we are to provide support.

peter nap said:

FOIA's Dan, and a bunch of them.

If I say something about filing, I'm either just the delivery boy for someone or filing FOIA's. I'll be picking up copies of filings from the courts in the next couple of days (Planned on doing it this morning but I need to go and listen to the Petersburg Clerk tell her story today).

I think I can tell some of what's in those papers, just nt some of the behind the scenes information.

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Thought you might be referring to FOIAs in the other thread, and know that those of course probably can't be discussed.

Blk97F150 said:

Just curious, if you were one of the people injustly arrested and folks were working hard on your defense, would you want every little step of the way posted on a public forum?

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There need to be a balance between the privacy of the defendant, the need to keep certain things quiet until trial and the right to know what's happening BLK.

People here pull together, donate money even though they don't know the details and really do have a right to know as much as can be given out at the time.

I'm a little too cryptic about it but since I don't have subpoena power....get some information in confidence and maybe bend a law or two getting some of it, I feel I need to be. Certainly not in the case of FOIA's though.

peter nap said:

People here pull together, donate money even though they don't know the details and really do have a right to know as much as can be given out at the time.

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I think that is a VERY important point and exactly spot on.

When we care about other folks here we do things that we might not otherwise do. You develop trust from knowing people, but more importantly you are more likely to care more about someone you know than a total stranger. And I think that's why people want to know as much as we do -- because we do want to pull together to support "one of us" (and in the back of our minds is certainly a bit of that "it could have been me" and you'd sure want someone to care about it). It's not about "rubbernecking" a traffic accident and is instead I believe more about wanting to know exactly what someone has done to someone that I care about. I'd much rather know exactly why I'm ticked off than have a general feeling about it. And I know that in my case things that I have done here are motivated by caring about those that I consider to be "us."

The voice of being experienced chiming in - with much that was learned and understood only after the facts and the case was over.

Defense attorneys and Commonwealth Attorneys jockey and joust via motions in order to establish position, pecking order, and to impress the judge with either the case law they think should apply or their rightous indignation at what the other side did/did not do. Dan Hawes does not, to my knowledge, try to merely harass the CA by filing useless petitions for the sake of fattening the file. He does, however, make every effort to position his client either for the win at trial or to preserve some otherwise mundane or often overlooked point that turns out to be crucial for an appeal if that becomes necessary.

I am a case law junky. (Yes, I know you are all shocked to learn that.) I have just a bit more knowledge and understanding of the law than to be outright dangerous, and over the years have learned how to follow and predict the outcome of cases based on what and when stuff is filed. Dan continues to astound, amaze, and best of all educate me.

Sometimes it is necessary to wait and see how a series of moves are played out before you can get a sense of the strategy - much like the way some of the Russian chess masters of the 1950's played.

Dan is good at building support. He will give the go-ahead to have stuff "released" from the court files when he thinks it will do no harm and may do some good. I have trusted him with my life once already, and would do so again. I also trust that he has at heart and in mind nothing but the best interest for Scouser - a verdict of "Not Guilty" in as short a time and with as little fuss as possible. It seems that often the "other side" wants to drag things out for reasons that have nothing to do with the case, the law, or court procedure. When that happens Dan does not need half the North American continent and all the ships at sea becoming outraged over one thing when it is another thing that is really the important issue. He will keep us updated - have no fear about that.

stay safe.

drdan01 said:

I think you misunderstood what I posted. Nobody said anything about "every little step of the way" as all that I'm asking about is to know what public information is available. One way to support those unjustly arrested is to shine light into the dark corners that those who did the arresting don't want us to see. They don't want to hear about their actions being made public, discussed openly. The more informed we are, the better able we are to provide support.

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Perhaps I did misunderstand. I would agree with the bolded part, but having witnessed the original Ferry Tale.... those involved do tend to release details as early as they can, so long as it doesn't jepordize the big picture. I would rather they take their time and do it that way.... then post something that could ultimately cost a man his freedom.

peter nap said:

There need to be a balance between the privacy of the defendant, the need to keep certain things quiet until trial and the right to know what's happening BLK.

People here pull together, donate money even though they don't know the details and really do have a right to know as much as can be given out at the time.

I'm a little too cryptic about it but since I don't have subpoena power....get some information in confidence and maybe bend a law or two getting some of it, I feel I need to be. Certainly not in the case of FOIA's though.

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I agree, and understand. And while I'm deeply interested in the nitty gritty details of this case (and the others that are close behind...), I will not press for 'more' info until its ready to be released. Too much is on the line.... for one man at least.

Blk97F150 said:

Perhaps I did misunderstand. I would agree with the bolded part, but having witnessed the original Ferry Tale.... those involved do tend to release details as early as they can, so long as it doesn't jepordize the big picture. I would rather they take their time and do it that way.... then post something that could ultimately cost a man his freedom.

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I hear what you're saying and don't disagree with that -- all I was really asking about though was to know if/when court filed documents are available so that we can see those. Post about that can't really have a negative impact as far as I know given that they are already public documents. Beyond that I'm happy to wait until user says it's okay for anything else to be posted and I wouldn't ask for it to be any other way.