Tagging people has begun - start in UK and beginning with the weak

davidmcbeth · Apr 30, 2013

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10029205/GPS-tags-for-dementia-patients.html

Dementia patients are to be fitted with GPS tracking devices for the first time to save police money searching for those who regularly go missing.

What they gonna say, no?

beebobby · May 1, 2013

I wish my friends grandfather had been tagged. He suffered from Alzheimer's and walked away from his residence and despite a large search effort, died from exposure before he could be located. Everything is not always a govt. conspiracy, no matter how much some folks want it to be.

Steeler-gal · May 1, 2013

The tracking device can be worn around a patient’s neck, clipped to a belt or attached to a set of house keys. It features a button which enables the wearer to speak directly to an operator in a 24-hour call centre.

I have no problem wit a device being used by hospitals or nursing facilities to keep track of patients. They had ankle "bracelets" with GPS in them at the home where we had my father before he died. The problem is that I don't believe an Alzheimer's patient (who is far gone mentally) would have any idea how to use one of these devices.

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self preservation · May 1, 2013

We have been using these tracking devices at work (Fire/EMS) for several years now. We have been able to locate more than 1 strayed off Alzheimer/dementia patient. A great tool to have.

self preservation · May 1, 2013

Steeler-gal said:
I have no problem wit a device being used by hospitals or nursing facilities to keep track of patients. They had ankle "bracelets" with GPS in them at the home where we had my father before he died. The problem is that I don't believe an Alzheimer's patient (who is far gone mentally) would have any idea how to use one of these devices.

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They don't have to use/do anything. They are tracked by the bracelet that they are wearing. No intervention from the patient is needed. Kind of like the dog tracking system used by coon hunters.

Baked on Grease · May 1, 2013

I have no problem with the idea... On a voluntary basis. The issue arrises when it's the gov't that is mandating their use instead of private organizations offering a service. First it's dementia/alzhiemers... Then felons/sex criminals... The drunk drivers... Then... Then... Then...

"First they came for the jews..."

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2

skidmark · May 1, 2013

Just another of the OP's tempests in a teapot.

Nobody is being forced to wear one. Nobody is being threatened with "dire consequences" if they do not put one on grandpa/granny. I don't even see where anybody is being told they will have to pay for a replacement if grandpa/granny loses/ditches the thing. (But how can it be lost if all you need to do is turn on the tracking mechanism and see where to go to retrieve it?)

If there is a complaint to be made, it would be that the police are paying for this, which means the taxpayers are paying. But, as the cops said, they spend more in an old fashioned manhunt than they do for the annual cost for all the devices. So the taxpayers are getting a (theoretical) reduction in costs. Sort of kills that complaint, doesn't it?

The do-gooders are whining that it is inhumane and "brands" the wearer. Besides the fact that the thing can be worn on a ribbon/lanyard around the neck where it would not be visible, it sounds like the do-gooders are the heartless ones who would rather someone who wanders off spend hours until they are found IF they ever do get found. How ironic.

stay safe.

77zach · May 1, 2013

All people are already tagged in Malaysia like dogs. First, everyone was required to carry their national id card. Now they're putting the chips in them. Not surprisingly, gun ownership gets you the death penalty there. No body loves tyranny like Asians. Well, except maybe people in New Jersey.

davidmcbeth · May 1, 2013

77zach said:
Well, except maybe people in New Jersey.

BS all we want is to put in some dunes ..... hahaha that fatass is comical

To all others who think tagging is OK ... its NOT

You tag dogs, not people.

And I doubt its "voluntary" in the UK ... they may say it is, but its not .... like when Obamalama tells you he supports gun control

Steeler-gal · May 1, 2013

self preservation said:
They don't have to use/do anything. They are tracked by the bracelet that they are wearing. No intervention from the patient is needed. Kind of like the dog tracking system used by coon hunters.

The article says there's a button for communication.

The tracking device can be worn around a patient’s neck, clipped to a belt or attached to a set of house keys. It features a button which enables the wearer to speak directly to an operator in a 24-hour call centre.

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ADobbs1989 · May 1, 2013

Steeler-gal said:
The article says there's a button for communication.

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I'm guessing that would be kind of like a "life-alert" feature. I would assume it would track at all times in case they went missing, but if they still live alone and maybe fell and couldn't get to a phone they could use the button to get help. I don't see why it's a bad thing. I sure would have liked to have one for my great-grandmother when she still lived at home and would sometimes wander outside and forget how to get back in and end up walking down the road. Sometimes people need to chill the **** out, everything isn't a conspiracy or some kind of revelations prophecy crap. Some times, albeit rarely, things are done to help provide for the general wellbeing of those who can no longer take care of themselves.

davidmcbeth · May 1, 2013

ADobbs1989 said:
I'm guessing that would be kind of like a "life-alert" feature. I would assume it would track at all times in case they went missing, but if they still live alone and maybe fell and couldn't get to a phone they could use the button to get help. I don't see why it's a bad thing. I sure would have liked to have one for my great-grandmother when she still lived at home and would sometimes wander outside and forget how to get back in and end up walking down the road. Sometimes people need to chill the **** out, everything isn't a conspiracy or some kind of revelations prophecy crap. Some times, albeit rarely, things are done to help provide for the general wellbeing of those who can no longer take care of themselves.

But I think you'll agree...the gov't need not be involved with the tagging of people for this purpose, right?

ADobbs1989 · May 1, 2013

davidmcbeth said:
But I think you'll agree...the gov't need not be involved with the tagging of people for this purpose, right?

I didn't see where it was mandatory. (It could be, but I can't say it is unless I know, speculation is useless) If the government would like to provide a security option to families who are taking care of their relatives who have dementia, I don't see how it could possibly be a problem. Everything has it's limits, if they try to mandate it, or try to extend the mandate to other groups then it's bad, but from what I see it is still in a phase where it's a service offered but not required.

stealthyeliminator · May 1, 2013

ADobbs1989 said:
... If the government would like to provide a security option to families who are taking care of their relatives who have dementia, I don't see how it could possibly be a problem. ...

Then you're being naive. If this is being offered as a service by a company that a patient and/or their guardian/family can decide to purchase, awesome. The second it becomes a "government service" the entire scenario changes. No matter which way you look at it, it's at least worse. From a moral standpoint, economic standpoint, any standpoint.

I cut the above part out of the rest of your post because it's the only part that I disagree with. Ableit, the majority of your post I can't really disagree with.

davidmcbeth · May 2, 2013

stealthyeliminator said:
Then you're being naive. If this is being offered as a service by a company that a patient and/or their guardian/family can decide to purchase, awesome. The second it becomes a "government service" the entire scenario changes. No matter which way you look at it, it's at least worse. From a moral standpoint, economic standpoint, any standpoint.

I cut the above part out of the rest of your post because it's the only part that I disagree with. Ableit, the majority of your post I can't really disagree with.

+1 at least one guy isn't brainwashed into thinking gov't interference is always a good thing ...

OC for ME · May 2, 2013

skidmark said:
Just another of the OP's tempests in a teapot.

<snip>

stay safe.

This certainly is not a tempest in a teapot. Focus on the real issue and not on the gadget.

[Dot]Gibson accused the authorities of "trying to get care on the cheap", adding: "It looks at the problem in the wrong way. If you've got people in the community who are so bad that they are wandering off at night and are not safe, they should be properly cared for; they shouldn't be tagged.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/may/01/police-defend-gps-locator-dementia

The real issue is the proper care of our seasoned citizens, not how we keep track of our seasoned citizens.

As a side note, Obamacare is more about "tagging" than properly "caring for."

ADobbs1989 · May 2, 2013

stealthyeliminator said:
Then you're being naive. If this is being offered as a service by a company that a patient and/or their guardian/family can decide to purchase, awesome. The second it becomes a "government service" the entire scenario changes. No matter which way you look at it, it's at least worse. From a moral standpoint, economic standpoint, any standpoint.

I cut the above part out of the rest of your post because it's the only part that I disagree with. Ableit, the majority of your post I can't really disagree with.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the UK have a centralized government ran healthcare system? Which would mean this is exactly the way it should be working. If you have the standpoint that the government healthcare is a bad system then that's fine, but since they are already doing this...the government would be the ones offering the system, not a random company. I won't pretend to know everything about this issue, as none of us know all the information, but as far as I can see it doesn't seem to be some sort of malicious attack on the elderly, just a way to help the families take care of them. It very well could have underlying causes that are bad, and it could very easily become something bad, but I don't see that it's at that point yet.

davidmcbeth said:
+1 at least one guy isn't brainwashed into thinking gov't interference is always a good thing ...

Never said government interference is always a good thing. In fact I would agree that more often than not it's a bad thing, but I'm also not a right wing nut job who thinks everything the government does is either a conspiracy or evil. I judge the governments acts based on what I know about it, and this doesn't seem to be evil or have malicious intent.

skidmark · May 2, 2013

OC for ME said:
This certainly is not a tempest in a teapot. Focus on the real issue and not on the gadget.

The real issue is the proper care of our seasoned citizens, not how we keep track of our seasoned citizens.

As a side note, Obamacare is more about "tagging" than properly "caring for."

And just how would you go about caring for seasoned citizens with a proclivity to wander off? Would you keep them behind a fence? Would you take away their shoes and scatter broken glass on the wealkways? How about just putting them on a long leash that is tied off to a pole out in the yard?

At this time there is no known cure for dementia, nor is there any known means of reversing the damage already done. The best that can be hoped for is to slow the progress somewhat - and that has serious ethical concerns. Some folks that wander know where they want to go back to but have a spot of trouble getting back there. Others cannot form the cognition for that - they are both physically and mentally lost.

Hey! It being (f)Great Britain where this is happening, let's do a double-whammy and resolve two problems with one fix. Every dementia patient gets a minder assigned to them. Every yob, yute, chav and ruffian under an ASBO gets assigned to mind a seasoned citizen. If the math is near correct, it ought to just about even out. Yeah, that ought to work out just peachy. eh wot?

stay safe.

OC for ME · May 2, 2013

skidmark said:
And just how would you go about caring for seasoned citizens with a proclivity to wander off? <snip>

I would place the burden on the "facility", that granny or gramps is dumped in to by their snot nosed kids, to have a modicum of awareness that a door was opened and that someone may have walked out of the joint. There is, in my house, three times a beep when any door is opened. Hear it in my bedroom, wakes me up it does.

YMMV

Steeler-gal · May 2, 2013

davidmcbeth said:
But I think you'll agree...the gov't need not be involved with the tagging of people for this purpose, right?

I agree that it shouldn't be mandatory by the government.

==========================================
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Teaching classes in Lorton VA & Springfield VA
PM me if you need a class, RSO or safety briefing

Tagging people has begun - start in UK and beginning with the weak

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