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Thread: The next time I am detained...

  1. #1
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    The next time I am detained...

    Quote Originally Posted by NRS 171.177
    When person detained must be taken before magistrate.  Except as otherwise provided in NRS 171.122 and 171.178, whenever any person is detained by a peace officer for any violation of a county, city or town ordinance or a state law which is punishable as a misdemeanor, the person must be taken without unnecessary delay before the proper magistrate, as specified in NRS 171.178 and 171.184, in the following cases:

    1.  When the person demands an immediate appearance before a magistrate;

    2.  When the person is detained pursuant to a warrant for the personís arrest;

    3.  When the person is arrested by a peace officer; or

    4.  In any other event when the person is issued a misdemeanor citation by an authorized person and refuses to give a written promise to appear in court as provided in NRS 171.1773.

    (Added to NRS by 1973, 156; A 1975, 1200; 1993, 144)

    Q: I don't consent to an encounter. I want to leave. Are you detaining me?
    A: Yes.
    Q: Are you detaining me as a suspect in a crime?
    A: Yes.
    Q: I demand to be taken before a magistrate immediately. Hurry up, chop chop!

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    What is the definition of "immediate?"
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member DooFster's Avatar
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    The next time I am detained...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yard Sale View Post
    Q: I don't consent to an encounter. I want to leave. Are you detaining me?
    A: Yes.
    Q: Are you detaining me as a suspect in a crime?
    A: Yes.
    Q: I demand to be taken before a magistrate immediately. Hurry up, chop chop!

    I wouldn't do the "hurry up, chop chop" part. That right there could make things worse. Other than that, we need a test case. Lol.
    IT is better to have a gun on you and NOT need it, than to need a gun and NOT have it on you...

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I've often wondered about that phrase myself because it's the same thing that is on a traffic citation. You signing it means you are waiving your right to be immediately taken before a magistrate, and that you promise instead to settle up or appear in traffic court.

    But if you refuse to sign, what happens? And who EXACTLY is a "magistrate?"

    My assumption is that "immediately" means I will be arrested, my car and effects impounded, and I will be thrown in the tank while I am "in line" to see said "magistrate" who will likely be very unhappy that I am wasting everybody's time to deal with me. This "immediate" process may take days.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    What is the definition of "immediate?"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlT05lcc5rI

    could this be an answer? scene from movie ...

    probably not....

  6. #6
    Regular Member turborich's Avatar
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    A police officer told me that if you refuse to sign the citation the police officer can sign it on your behalf or can arrest you and take you to jail at his/her discretion.

    I would think it's best to sign the citation and make a note saying "signed under protest"

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turborich View Post
    A police officer told me that ...
    This is our clue that what follows is probably bullcrap, of course.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member March Hare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Originally Posted by turborich
    A police officer told me that ...
    This is our clue that what follows is probably bullcrap, of course.
    To be treated with suspicion, at the very least.
    Without a cite, that is just the officers opinion.

    -MH
    Last edited by March Hare; 05-01-2013 at 03:58 PM. Reason: Trying to make my post make sense... good luck
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    Regular Member turborich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    This is our clue that what follows is probably bullcrap, of course.
    It wasn't during a traffic stop, just a casual conversation with an off duty officer.

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    A magistrate is a judicial officer who makes determinations regarding probable cause. For example, an arresting officer presents an arrestee to a magistrate and makes his accusation and gives his evidence. The magistrate makes a judicial determination as to whether probable cause or legal justification for the arrest exists.

    Or, the cops present the probable cause for a search warrant to a magistrate, and the magistrate issues the search warrant if he agrees probable cause exists.

    Basically, a magistrate is (supposedly) the judicial buffer between the executive branch and the citizen with regard to searches and seizures. I said supposedly because plenty of magistrates seem like rubber stamps for police.



    Personally, I can't see any point in demanding to see a magistrate during a Terry Stop. All the magistrate can do is tell the cop there is no probable cause for an arrest and to let you go. But, there wouldn't be a Terry Stop if there was probable cause, anyway. The cop would just arrest you instead of detaining and questioning you.

    And, the cop isn't going to take you to a magistrate without probable cause, anyway, now that I think about it. There are court cases that discuss whether presentation to a magistrate is the formal beginning of the legal process, as in whether its at that point the formal accusation is made. A cop isn't going to turn a Terry Stop into a false arrest by taking you to a magistrate even if you request going to the magistrate. Or, at least I wouldn't if I were a cop. And, the cop isn't going to let you drive yourself to the magistrate right in the middle of his Terry Stop.

    But, lets say you did somehow talk the cop into taking you to the magistrate. Its not like you are going to start making sworn statements to the magistrate without your attorney, anymore than you're going to answer the cop's questions during the detention.

    So, what's the magistrate going to do? Tell the cop to let you go because you're not giving probable cause? The same thing you'd accomplish by invoking the 5th Amendment and shutting up during the Terry Stop?

    Also, magistrates don't make determinations about reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS). As far as I know, that determination is made during a pre-trial suppression hearing. At least, that's what Terry v Ohio says.

    So, no. I can't see any point in asking to see a magistrate.


    ETA: It might be fun to see how the system dysfunctions when you throw it a curve. "Officer, I would like this interview to occur in front of a magistrate." Of course, you might get a dummy of a magistrate who tells the cop, "Oh yeah? You saw him OCing and a citizen accused him of brandishing? Sounds like probable cause to me, officer. I'll approve your arrest." Then the cop is practically bullet proof against a false arrest lawsuit. Good faith. The magistrate told him probable cause existed.

    Now that I think about it, there was a non-incident some years ago where some cops were called because of some OCers having dinner at a restaurant called Champs or something. Cops came. Didn't confront the OCers--just stood off to the side while trying to figure out what to do. One called a magistrate for guidance on the legality of OC. The magistrate was dead sure OC was illegal and all but ordered the cops to arrest the OCers. The cops didn't. Lucky for everybody involved, someone else, maybe a cop supervisor, cleared up for the cops that OC was legal. My point is, a mistaken magistrate may actually get you arrested.
    Last edited by Citizen; 05-01-2013 at 11:06 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    This is our clue that what follows is probably bullcrap, of course.
    Beam me up scotty, they're onto us ! lol

    +1

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    A magistrate is a judicial officer who makes determinations regarding probable cause. ...
    Okay, so there is actually a guy at City Hall whose title is "Magistrate?" The ONLY time I've ever encountered the term is at the bottom of my speeding tickets. And I've signed every damned one of them so that I wouldn't have to meet him.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Okay, so there is actually a guy at City Hall whose title is "Magistrate?" The ONLY time I've ever encountered the term is at the bottom of my speeding tickets. And I've signed every damned one of them so that I wouldn't have to meet him.
    I don't know how NV does it, but anytime I've gone to swear out a warrant here in VA, the magistrate was always in the police station or jail/temporary detention facility.

    But, yeah. There is a judicial function where the police have to present an arrestee to the judicial branch to justify their seizure by stating/showing probable cause. I suppose in small rural counties, it could be just the judge himself when he comes to work the next morning.

    If not for magistrates reviewing the probable cause, any arrestee that wanted out could just petition for a writ of habeas corpus and force the jailers/police to bring him before a judge for the same review. And, everbody would sit in jail at the cops' discretion until probable cause was judicially reviewed on habeas petition or bail hearing.

    A magistrate is supposed to be a check on police, forcing them, supposedly, to have genuine probable cause.
    Last edited by Citizen; 05-02-2013 at 01:07 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Okay, so there is actually a guy at City Hall whose title is "Magistrate?" The ONLY time I've ever encountered the term is at the bottom of my speeding tickets. And I've signed every damned one of them so that I wouldn't have to meet him.
    Ever thought of slowing down? I know, you are thinking that is a dumb idea. I was an expert on the subject in my early years. 13 speeding for 20 plus and one reckless driving before I was 21 years old. Not sure why they called it reckless driving. I had a hopped up Dodge Power Wagon doing a 2nd gear smoking the tires across Las Vegas Blvd on Charleston, almost sideways most of the way, kept it between the lines and straightened it up after shifting into 3rd, I was in control not reckless. Shifting into 4th was interrupted by a extremely pissed off Metro officer on a Harley.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    What is the definition of "immediate?"
    Unimportant.

    What counts is the definition of "without unnecessary delay."

    Generally this works out to "within 24 hours," and in practice means "in the morning." Some courts appoint a pro tem to handle detentions over the weekend, while others have a rotating bench or even a judge whose work week includes a couple of hours on Saturday and Sunday. Detentions have priority over all other court activities, because of your right to a speedy trial (which you should NEVER NEVER NEVER WAIVE). I have seen felony trials recessed (or delayed) so that the judge can deal with the morning crop of arrestees before time runs out.

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