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Thread: Lawsuit filed for illegal open carry stop of forum member RCall

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    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Lawsuit filed for illegal open carry stop of forum member RCall

    For those of you who are not aware of the illegal stop that Riverside police made on an open carrier, you may want to read the report and watch the video.

    Original police report:
    http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/4610...-pdf-795k?da=y

    Video of stop:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siAqelKBUAA

    Once you've gotten up to speed, you may ALSO be interested in the lawsuit that has been filed against Riverside. I know I'LL be following it closely.

    Lawsuit:
    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6gt...it?usp=sharing

    Some may want to skip to page 12 of the lawsuit to see how many zeroes are involved.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

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    Regular Member NEOOpenCarry's Avatar
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    arrest

    Better be careful with suing for emotional distress, they just might say he is not mentally stable enough to carry the firearm In all seriousness though, good for him in standing up to these officers who were either ignorant of, or blatantly ignored the law. There is no excuse for it either way. Thanks for sharing.
    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” - Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member Suckerspawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    For those of you who are not aware of the illegal stop that Riverside police made on an open carrier, you may want to read the report and watch the video.

    Original police report:
    http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/4610...-pdf-795k?da=y

    Video of stop:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siAqelKBUAA

    Once you've gotten up to speed, you may ALSO be interested in the lawsuit that has been filed against Riverside. I know I'LL be following it closely.

    Lawsuit:
    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6gt...it?usp=sharing

    Some may want to skip to page 12 of the lawsuit to see how many zeroes are involved.
    Filed Complaint...Page 2, Point 7. Has the City of Riverside in Miami County. Riverside is in Montgomery County
    Last edited by Suckerspawn; 05-02-2013 at 08:04 AM.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    WOW!!!!

    Page four on the cop's report says:
    As Ohio is an open carry state, and he had not actually done anything illegal with the gun beyond scaring the female customer, I did return his weapon to him, unloaded for safety reasons. No gun charge has been filed.
    The cop actually admits that Call did NOT do anything illegal and still charged him with a crime, Obstructing official business.

    What a piece of work. And they wonder why people hate cops. Even back in the fifties my parents said don't trust a cop, they are not your friend.

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    Re: Lawsuit filed for illegal open carry stop of forum member RCall

    I never knew that was him in that video.

    I hope he wins this, so another city learns what it is like when they violate a persons rights.

    I applaud him for how he handled the whole situation.

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    Sovereign Citizens may have been known to kill cops. Cops are notorious for killing citizens, creating reasonable fear of great bodily harm in any encounter with law enforcement. Respect is good, fear works.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    People may want to read or re-read the original thread, which contains a lot of information: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...OH-OC-dash-cam

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    How does one post a PDF? I've found the police report, but can't figure out how to post it.

    {EDIT} Here's the report, but if someone else can/knows how to host it, I'd sure appreciate it: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5lb...it?usp=sharing
    Last edited by BB62; 05-02-2013 at 11:45 AM.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    A question on another forum about whether, as the police report suggests, RCall has a history of "looking for confrontation" was answered by me this way:

    I guess loading groceries in one's car at a grocery store is "looking for confrontation" eh? And the "second person" who filmed the encounter would be.... the Vandalia Police Department!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWoVrkSpE58

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showt ... -Encounter

    Read far enough and you'll see that Vandalia constructed new training for officers and dispatchers as a result of the unjustified stop.


    Yeah, clearly the Riverside police report is accurate! (and whether it is or not, it has no bearing on the stop) The Riverside report is falsified, backside covering, and character assassination. Nothing more.

    Read the Riverside report with a more critical eye and you'll see a lot more that's questionable.
    Last edited by BB62; 05-02-2013 at 12:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Sovereign Citizens may have been known to kill cops. Cops are notorious for killing citizens, creating reasonable fear of great bodily harm in any encounter with law enforcement. Respect is good, fear works.
    Well, the FBI calls sovereign citizens a terrorist organization partly because of a few "members" killing a couple of cops ~ but really not directly related to the SC causes.

    That's why the gov't considers being a Catholic as a characteristic of being a terrorist.

    We are all terrorists in the gov't eyes.

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    This is not about sovereign citizens. This is not about the FBI or what they think.

    This is about RCall, a real person, a nice guy with whom I've enjoyed a few repasts and conversations, who was rousted in an unjustifiable manner and is fighting back using our legal system.

    Folks from outside Ohio are, of course, more than welcome in this thread and the Ohio forums in general. I would just politely ask that they comment on topic and not try to hijack the thread for their own agendas.

    RCall, you have my deepest sympathies for what you endured and my utmost respect for how you handled the situation and how you have chosen to proceed. Being relatively local to you, I'd love the opportunity to support you in your effort with presence, with in-kind help, or with a small pittance toward your legal fees. The battle you are fighting is one from which we all will benefit, but for which only you are suffering. Thank you.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suckerspawn View Post
    Filed Complaint...Page 2, Point 7. Has the City of Riverside in Miami County. Riverside is in Montgomery County
    Point 6 has it correct. It's harmless error.

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    Regular Member Makarov's Avatar
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    RCalls Lawsuit Makes The News

    This article is from the Dayton Daily News.

    http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/new...ondaily_launch

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    RCalls Lawsuit Makes The News

    The newspaper just swallows the polices relation of events and their conclusions, without question. Piss-poor reporting.

    Roy could have just "cooperated," and it all would have been over in a few minutes. BULL! Since the police had already demonstrated their willingness to break the law and ignore Roy's rights, why would anyone believe that his cooperation in that violation would have made the violation any less heinous or last any less time???

    The story, fails to acknowledge that the officers had no legal reason to stop Roy, ask him for ID, or expect him to "cooperate." The newspaper's reporting is only slightly less offensive than the actions of the officers.

    Unfortunately, I saw no link where I could leave comments for the story, or I would have.


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    What does "cooperation" mean? Answering 1 million questions?

    These cops should not be cops at all if a legal activity that they deem is unlawful in their own minds leads to lawlessness,

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    So after the officers cuffed MR. Roy and placed/detained him in there police cruiser, they then went to his vehicle and without his permission searched his vehicle and located his legal paperwork CCW/DL etc.

    Mr.Roy should also file criminal chargers against the criminals that kidnapped him and broke into his vehicle and violated his 2A right.

    I wish him the best and hopefully more law suits will follow for this criminal behavior by people that are hired to protect and serve its citizens.

    CCJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The story, fails to acknowledge that the officers had no legal reason to stop Roy, ask him for ID, or expect him to "cooperate." The newspaper's reporting is only slightly less offensive than the actions of the officers.


    Interestingly I took a training class in Reynoldsburg Ohio last week that partially hit on that. The trainer was a Lt. from a PD in Massachusettes whom admitted he was probably the only right wing conservative in the state. He mentioned how most Americans don't know that if they aren't committing a crime and the police have no RAS that they are, then they don't have to say anything to the police or ID who they are. He admitted most crimes are solved by suspects talking or their friends talking and ratting them out. Solving crimes with evidence is very hard and probably one of the easiest to throw out in court. However, verbal confessions, easy to convict. The Lt. blamed alot of that on the media for not knowing people's rights either and portraying that certain events happen or have to happen.

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    My suggestion? Like Houdini did -- if you want press coverage of a march or rally --- rally at the newspaper building --- they'll cover it for sure then...does not have to be an anti-press rally, just a rally to get a point or facts across to the public.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The newspaper just swallows the polices relation of events and their conclusions, without question. Piss-poor reporting...
    Nothing personal, but I disagree. I think it was as it should have been - at least for a first story.

    I think the reporter did his best to report "facts", as in a) what the police report said, b) what the Chief and City Manager said, and c) what Mr. Call's attorney said. There was no commentary about the accuracy or validity of either sides' statements - and for a gun story, that's unusual.

    Hopefully there will be more stories or reader comments (hint, hint) delving into the many things "we" could educate the reporter and readers about.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    A Facebook page called Miami County, Ohio Concealed/Open Carry includes a link to a YouTube video of a man allegedly stopped in Vandalia for open carrying a gun with a shared link from a “Roy Call.”
    Here, let me fix this statement.

    A Facebook page called Miami County, Ohio Concealed/Open Carry includes a link to a YouTube POLICE DASH-CAM video of a man allegedly stopped in Vandalia for open carrying a gun with a shared link from a “Roy Call.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWoVrkSpE58

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    As posted by "Makarov" on another thread:

    RCalls Lawsuit Makes The News


    This article is from the Dayton Daily News:

    http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/new...ondaily_launch

    "While openly carrying his Springfield XDM .40-caliber handgun, Tipp City resident Roy Call walked into a Riverside Speedway store at 4:30 a.m. Aug. 12, 2012 to buy a sports drink.
    That’s when — as claimed in a lawsuit against the city of Riverside, its mayor and two police officers — Call said he was illegally detained and briefly had his gun confiscated. Call is seeking compensatory and punitive damages of $3.6 million in a lawsuit field in the United States District Court/Southern District of Ohio in Dayton.

    But Riverside police Chief Mark Reiss said his officers acted correctly and all Call had to do was cooperate...."



    Other OCDO thread: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...Makes-The-News

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    so by saying that his officers are correct and that Call should have cooperated the chief is essentially endorsing their conduct. his view is that you need to cooperate or his department will make things very difficult for you. well, i hope this case makes things very difficult for this rogue cop and his band of highwaymen.
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    Lawsuit filed for illegal open carry stop of forum member RCall

    A certain retired officer who sells guns was echoing the chief's words. He thought the officers' thug actions were justified because Roy did not identify himself. It does not matter to him (or to the chief) that the LAW requires that the officers have RAS of a CRIME before they demand ID (or search a car to find it).

    Some LEOs need to learn that they must follow the law, just like everyone else.


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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    That's the same sort of, "If you're getting raped, just lay back and enjoy it" advice given to women.

    There is so much wrong in that, it's hard to find a place to start, but try I shall.....

    But Riverside police Chief Mark Reiss said his officers acted correctly and all Call had to do was cooperate.
    • No. All Call 'had' to do was what was required of him by law in this circumstance, and that is absolutely nothing.



    “Had he been truthful with the police and simply provided his identification so that they could have quickly ran it, that encounter would have been over very quickly, within a minute or two,” Reiss said.
    • Mr Call was not required by law to present his identification, nor was he required to carry any. Personal experience says that 'showing your papers' does not necessarily shorten any illegal detention if the officer has no reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing and is trying to find one.



    “Given the time of the day, the location, and the fact that convenience store/gas stations are typical targets for robberies in the middle of the night,” Reiss said. “It would seem reasonable in the eyes of a police officer to ask someone who was carrying a gun if it was legally permissible for them to do so.”
    • The Supreme Court would disagree as shown by Terry, the officer would have been reasonable to 'keep an eye on' and develop a reasonable suspicion, but not to accost and detain before there was a suspicion of criminal wrongdoing or intent.



    Police reports show a citizen at the Speedway at 3201 Valley Pike was concerned that a man had a gun in the open and told Riverside police Sgt. Harold Jones, who motioned to Call to come outside.
    • A report of a legal activity, the call could have said Call was carrying a cell phone, wallet, or Bible, is insufficient grounds to suspect illegal activity.



    Jones’ incident report said Call would not answer questions relating to his identity. “He eventually said he had no identification with him. This was actually a lie as his identification was approximately 50 feet away in his truck along with his CCW card,” Jones’ report said. “This was not found for several minutes. He told me he was exercising his second amendment rights to openly carry a gun.”
    • Mr Call did the right thing as his identity would neither confirm nor deny any criminal activity being afoot. Nor was it a lie to say he had no identification on him. If someone asks 'do you have the time?" and your watch or cellphone is 50 feet away then saying you don't have the time isn't a lie. I strongly suspect that if Mr Call required a license to openly carry and it was 'fifty feet away' the officers would have said he 'didn't have a license with him." By way of saying, 'this was not found for several minutes' I suspect it was only found in a search incident to arrest or an inventory search if the vehicle was going to be towed. Searches incident to arrest are legal if they are to search for evidence related to the crime or to search for weapons readily available to the arrested person (If I've read Arizona v.Gant correctly. I suspect that departments are well aware of Gant and have developed a program of 'providing safe storage' for every car they come across where an arrest takes place. Of course, in order to do that they have to search the car and inventory it so no items gets stolen... and so they get a free peek at anything inside.


    Chief Reiss added: “With carrying a firearm openly, there also comes responsibility with that. People should realize that they may, given a certain set of circumstances, draw the attention of law enforcement. A responsible person would just identify themselves if there’s a brief check to be done and then they would be on their way.”
    • The Chief seems to have defined a reasonable person as 'someone who cooperates with the police even when not required to nor is it in their best interests to do so."
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 05-14-2013 at 12:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    WOW!!!!

    Page four on the cop's report says:


    The cop actually admits that Call did NOT do anything illegal and still charged him with a crime, Obstructing official business.

    What a piece of work. And they wonder why people hate cops. Even back in the fifties my parents said don't trust a cop, they are not your friend.
    And he did not "scare" the lady .... that's an emotional response ... only the lady can get the lady scared

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