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Thread: "Is that your second job?"

  1. #1
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    "Is that your second job?"

    Yesterday, I was frequenting my favorite fast-food establishment while openly carrying my Glock (it just wasn't a 1911 day). I was in my work uniform, which consists of a dark navy shirt and khaki pants. My navy shirt just happened to be a polo and my khakis happened to be cargo pants.

    A customer of that establishment was also a regular customer of mine at my own job (retail) and noticed my pistol while I was eating. The exchange went something like this:
    Him: Is that your second job?
    Me: What, eating? It could be. (I patted my belly here to seal the joke)
    H: No, that. (He pointed at my gun, which I find kind of rude. I don't point my gun at him, after all.)
    M: (I looked down and feigned surprise at seeing a pistol) Oh God, how did that get there?? I guess it's a good thing I'm a licensed carrier.
    H: (He was laughing at this point) No, now get serious. Do you work for something like security?
    M: No, sir. I am an responsible, armed citizen.
    H: I'm responsible and a citizen, but I'm not armed.
    M: You don't have to be, sir. I am, and so are others like me.

    This led me to wonder how often others on this forum are mistaken for armed security or off-duty police, as well as what people wear while open carrying. I personally changed my wardrobe once I made that decision and have mostly moved away from graphic t-shirts and blue jeans to button-up shirts and khaki pants. I suppose a semi-well-dressed person is mostly left alone.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    I was in a grocery store that I frequent. I jumped into the "9 or less) line behind another guy. The clerk mixed our orders (we both bought six identical steaks) and the conversation amongst us ensued. Just as he finished he said, "So, are you an off duty policeman?" I was wearing jeans and a sweatshirt that said "ARMY". I smiled and said "No Sir, just a regular Joe that does not want to be abused." I told him OC was the default method of carry in Washington State, no permit required. I never "look" like a LEO. It's the weapon. People have it drilled into them that only cops and criminals carry. It's up to us to change that.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  3. #3
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I was in a grocery store that I frequent. I jumped into the "9 or less) line behind another guy. The clerk mixed our orders (we both bought six identical steaks) and the conversation amongst us ensued. Just as he finished he said, "So, are you an off duty policeman?" I was wearing jeans and a sweatshirt that said "ARMY". I smiled and said "No Sir, just a regular Joe that does not want to be abused." I told him OC was the default method of carry in Washington State, no permit required. I never "look" like a LEO. It's the weapon. People have it drilled into them that only cops and criminals carry. It's up to us to change that.
    +1 - well said

  4. #4
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    I've had a kid at a grocery store in line with his dad behind me, whisper to his dad if I was an undercover policeman? I heard him, and loudly whispered back to him that if I were I'm doing a lousy job. To which the people around me started to giggle.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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  5. #5
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I used to get asked if I was a cop even when not open carrying, and that was with long hair and a beard. Usually conversation would go something like this.

    "Are you a cop?"

    "Nope"

    "Are you sure? You look like a cop?"

    "Yes I am sure, I look like a bum for God's sake."

    "I think you're a cop"

    "Whatever"

    Now that I am a few years older I get asked if I am a cowboy. I think part of the problem was that people claimed I looked like a actor who played a cop. I never saw the resemblance as my hair is dark and his is blonde.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    M: You don't have to be, sir. I am, and so are others like me.
    Not in the three past lifetimes. Not in this lifetime. Not in the next three lifetimes.

    It's called self defense for a reason.

    I am not anybody's Personal Protection Agent, just as I am not their valet parker.

    I might, if the situation warrants it and I can do so without endangering other innocents, take a shot at someone placing an innocent other in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury. But my duty is to myself (Have no family so nobody else to worry about. Biggest concern when among friends is getting shoved out of the way because they want to take the shot if we are in imminent danger.)

    Mr. Steak Shopper can either assume responsibility for himself, hire a professional, or hope the cops get there before the vultures without feathers have stripped him bare and he ends up as a John Doe.

    I really wish folks would consider what message they are putting out there when they say stuff like "You don't have to be, sir. I am, and so are others like me." If nothing else, it supports the anti-rights controllers' claims that we are wanna-be cops just waiting to bust a cap in someone.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    ....
    Now that I am a few years older I get asked if I am a cowboy. I think part of the problem was that people claimed I looked like a actor who played a cop. I never saw the resemblance as my hair is dark and his is blonde.
    I thought Buster Crabb played sheriffs, not cops. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0185568/

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  8. #8
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I tend to avoid philosophical conversations about carry. All the public needs to understand is that is is a legal choice. They can either accept it, or move on.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  9. #9
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    I was advised one day by an observer at a convenience store that my handgun was showing (IWB with shirt tucked behind the holster). I surprised him with "So"! As I proceeded out the door my wife decided to tell him that OC was/is legal in UTAH. Short debate followed with him claiming to have a Utah permit and it REQUIRED concealment. I was proud of the wife as she told him that Utah's permit simply ALLOWS concealment with no mandate to conceal. It was a good day!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
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  10. #10
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    I've had far more positive encounters than negative ones. I always love the chance to educate and discuss with someone on the legality and the reasons for OC, but even an encounter with a dissenter is an opportunity to educate; not the person who has a conniption fit, obviously, but those around them by being calm, collected and sure of your ability to carry. This shows everyone else that you are not the problem, but the person causing a scene where there was no issue before.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvertongue View Post
    I guess it's a good thing I'm a licensed carrier.
    I fail to grasp your reasoning.

  12. #12
    Regular Member moonie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I fail to grasp your reasoning.
    In TN OC requires a permission slip.
    We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.

    Thomas Jefferson

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonie View Post
    In TN OC requires a permission slip.
    Well, I suppose that, at least, the remark no longer seems like a non-sequitur.

  14. #14
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compmanio365 View Post
    I've had far more positive encounters than negative ones. I always love the chance to educate and discuss with someone on the legality and the reasons for OC, but even an encounter with a dissenter is an opportunity to educate; not the person who has a conniption fit, obviously, but those around them by being calm, collected and sure of your ability to carry. This shows everyone else that you are not the problem, but the person causing a scene where there was no issue before.
    +1 Yep, the overwhelming majority of my encounters are positive. Was able to mention to one negative how he was the one acting unrational and was making me uncomfortable in the way he approached me. I'll never get the ones who come up to a person carrying a gun hysterical and claiming that they are afraid of the guy with the gun.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  15. #15
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Not in the three past lifetimes. Not in this lifetime. Not in the next three lifetimes.

    It's called self defense for a reason.

    I am not anybody's Personal Protection Agent, just as I am not their valet parker.

    I might, if the situation warrants it and I can do so without endangering other innocents, take a shot at someone placing an innocent other in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury. But my duty is to myself (Have no family so nobody else to worry about. Biggest concern when among friends is getting shoved out of the way because they want to take the shot if we are in imminent danger.)

    Mr. Steak Shopper can either assume responsibility for himself, hire a professional, or hope the cops get there before the vultures without feathers have stripped him bare and he ends up as a John Doe.

    I really wish folks would consider what message they are putting out there when they say stuff like "You don't have to be, sir. I am, and so are others like me." If nothing else, it supports the anti-rights controllers' claims that we are wanna-be cops just waiting to bust a cap in someone.

    stay safe.
    I understand what you are saying....but many of us with or with out the gun recognize our natural inclination to help others.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  16. #16
    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    "Is that your second job?"

    I never get asked if I'm a cop but I do get asked if I work in security. I'm always tempted to say yes. I work in IT Security but I don't think that's what they mean when they ask me that question.


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  17. #17
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    +1 Yep, the overwhelming majority of my encounters are positive. Was able to mention to one negative how he was the one acting unrational and was making me uncomfortable in the way he approached me. I'll never get the ones who come up to a person carrying a gun hysterical and claiming that they are afraid of the guy with the gun.
    Had an encounter (posted details in the South Sound OC report thread in WA sub forum if you are interested) like this. Wasn't hysterical per say but it was pretty funny how she made herself out to be the ridiculous party when not one other person in the store had an issue. Someone coming up to you and starting a confrontation is anything but afraid. They are offended. And in this PC society this is the ultimate crime in their mind, to be offended by something.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Not in the three past lifetimes. Not in this lifetime. Not in the next three lifetimes.

    It's called self defense for a reason.

    I am not anybody's Personal Protection Agent, just as I am not their valet parker.

    I might, if the situation warrants it and I can do so without endangering other innocents, take a shot at someone placing an innocent other in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury. But my duty is to myself (Have no family so nobody else to worry about. Biggest concern when among friends is getting shoved out of the way because they want to take the shot if we are in imminent danger.)

    Mr. Steak Shopper can either assume responsibility for himself, hire a professional, or hope the cops get there before the vultures without feathers have stripped him bare and he ends up as a John Doe.

    I really wish folks would consider what message they are putting out there when they say stuff like "You don't have to be, sir. I am, and so are others like me." If nothing else, it supports the anti-rights controllers' claims that we are wanna-be cops just waiting to bust a cap in someone.

    stay safe.
    Hey buddy, thank you for weighing in.

    "Others like me" was meant to mean other open carriers. When a non-carrier or even a concealed carrier is in an area with open carriers, they enjoy a kind of umbrella deterrent effect. It isn't measurable. Most people don't even notice. But I don't ignore it.

    Maybe I feel this way because I've had several friends tell me that they feel safer with me around. Sure, I'm not security. I'm most definitely NOT an "I wish a motha***** would" type. Every time someone asks me about what I'd do if I had to pull a gun on someone, I tell them that I lose. They look puzzled, and I give them Massad Ayoob's words on the subject.

    That said, I didn't put that in my original post, and I didn't say it to him. I should have done both, and I'm glad you pointed it out.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Elm Creek Smith's Avatar
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    No, it's my third job, but I'm not working right now.

    Well, I've retired twice, so technically my armed security job is my third job if you don't count all the little jobs before and between. I frequent a few places both in and out of uniform, (Sometimes I get a discount without asking for my senior discount, but whether that's because I'm in uniform or just look old is up for debate.) so they are used to seeing me armed in uniform anyway. Oddly, it was in the parking lot of one of those places where a woman in her forties confronted me (in civilian clothes) in the parking lot about carrying a gun. She didn't want to know if I was security or a police officer; she just demanded to know why I was carrying a gun. From her attitude, it was clear that this was not an educational opportunity, so I corrected her misapprehension and continued about my business.

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  20. #20
    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    My job is Unarmed hospital security. I can't carry for the 8 hours I am at work. As soon as I clock out and get to the parking lot I take my uniform shirt off and put on a "civilian" shirt and cap. Then my pistol goes on my belt. I have had people see me shopping and, indicating my pistol, ask if I am a security guard. Since I'm off the clock, away from my job site, and not in uniform, nor would I be allowed to have the gun if I was on duty, I tell them "No, I'm not a security guard." Sure, technically I am. But they see the gun and assume that the gun has to do with my job, ie, I must be an armed guard, which I am not. Just as I am not walking around pretending to be a cop I am also not going to give anyone the mistaken impression I am a Armed Security Officer which is regulated in this State. I just tell them No and then continue what I'm doing.
    For what it's worth, the gun isn't even necessary for someone to assume you are a cop or security. I am a ham radio operator and often carry a HT (walkie talkie) on my belt. This alone is enough to make a clueless citizen jump to the assumption that you must be an "officer".
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  21. #21
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sraacke View Post
    My job is Unarmed hospital security. I can't carry for the 8 hours I am at work. As soon as I clock out and get to the parking lot I take my uniform shirt off and put on a "civilian" shirt and cap. Then my pistol goes on my belt. I have had people see me shopping and, indicating my pistol, ask if I am a security guard. Since I'm off the clock, away from my job site, and not in uniform, nor would I be allowed to have the gun if I was on duty, I tell them "No, I'm not a security guard." Sure, technically I am. But they see the gun and assume that the gun has to do with my job, ie, I must be an armed guard, which I am not. Just as I am not walking around pretending to be a cop I am also not going to give anyone the mistaken impression I am a Armed Security Officer which is regulated in this State. I just tell them No and then continue what I'm doing.
    For what it's worth, the gun isn't even necessary for someone to assume you are a cop or security. I am a ham radio operator and often carry a HT (walkie talkie) on my belt. This alone is enough to make a clueless citizen jump to the assumption that you must be an "officer".
    We have a few, mind you very few, volunteer fire persons who carry radios, AND badges around. Not sure the reasoning on it though since it is not like a fire can see a badge and stop. Because of the good they do for the community I shrug it off. I was issued a pager as a LEO, and I hated it, I "accidentally" turned it off, or the batteries went dead continually while I was off work. One day I went to work and they handed me a case of batteries. After that I made sure I was out of range on my day off.

    Kudos to you for being responsible while OCing, and not letting people get the wrong idea.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member mjcromp's Avatar
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    "Is that your second job?"

    I have had many kids ask if I was a cop. Not an adult yet though. I wear almost in hopes of someone asking and getting the opportunity to educate them.

  23. #23
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    Maybe we should say that we are "Personal Security Specialists." I wouldn't mention that the persons being secured would be me and mine and that it was not a job but a responsibility. However, on the surface, the statement would be true.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Maybe we should say that we are "Personal Security Specialists." I wouldn't mention that the persons being secured would be me and mine and that it was not a job but a responsibility. However, on the surface, the statement would be true.
    I like it, eye. Have to use that one someday.

    Because I'm kind of loud and social, a lot of people in the area that holds a lot of restaurants I visit recognize me from my job (I work retail) and ask if I'm security there.

    So far the best response I can come up with is "We all take the safety of our customers very seriously and work to make [the store] as safe as possible."

    I really don't want to let it slip that our store security isn't allowed to carry guns.

    On the other hand, maybe one of the guys listened to James Yeager's "able but not allowed" rant.

  25. #25
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    Last year on the day OC became legal here, I had to go inside my bank. My bank is posted so left the sidearm in the car. My shirt was covering the top part of the holster and the security guard saw the bottom part of it. He followed me out and this was the conversation:

    SG: Are you on duty today?
    Me: Ummm....no.
    SG: You can't carry a gun in the bank.
    Me: I didn't, it's and empty holster, the gun is in the car.
    SG: Oh! I'm sorry, I didn't mean to accost you.

    We then had a short chat about OC and how the security guards have tried to get the credit union to remove their gunbuster signs.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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