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Thread: Texas Senate Passes Guns On Campus

  1. #1
    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
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    Texas Senate Passes Guns On Campus

    It'd be awesome if Maine allowed something like this.

    So far, it's limited to keeping guns locked in cars, but hopefully that will transition to allowing on-person carry.

    "During the debate on the Senate floor, Democratic Sen. Jose Rodriguez of El Paso argued the bill would lead to allowing guns in college classrooms. He later told FoxNews.com, “I opposed the bill because, given today’s climate and the rise of crime on ours campuses, the last thing we need to do is pass a bill like this."

    Sounds like Jose is serving the wrong state.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/30/texas-senate-approves-guns-in-locked-cars-on-college-campuses-now-heads-to/#ixzz2SA79dYmu"
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-05-2013 at 09:50 PM. Reason: Fixed title
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    Forgive me for not being overjoyed at this development. I'd much rather that the legislative action was such that it could have been characterized as "Texas legislature realizes the error of its ways and removes language from the law that infringes on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms on college campi." Instead, we have a situation where the legislature is granting permission to partially exercise the Right and partially infringe on it.

    When we accept the authority of the State to grant permission to do something, at the same time, we accept their authority to deny that permission.

    While this may keep some from facing punishment for doing something reasonable, it is not an entirely positive turn of events. It definitely has a huge downside!

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    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
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    I welcome any progress with open arms. But we can't all be the "glass half full" type I guess.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MainelyGlock View Post
    I welcome any progress with open arms. But we can't all be the "glass half full" type I guess.
    So how long will they have to wait for the women to stampede, the horses to faint, blood in the streets, shootouts over parking spaces, and massacres in registration lines before they are willing to say it just won't happen and move on to the next baby step?

    Yes, progress is progress. But how long do we keep taking baby steps before we are allowed to walk like the responsible citizens we are?

    stay safe.
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    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
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    The thread title is a little misleading. The Texas Senate has passed the bill. It still needs to go to the House and then the governor needs to sign it.

    From the article:


    This year’s bill is expected to go to the House on Saturday, and it is likely to pass.
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


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    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
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    Re: Texas Allows Campus Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by ak56 View Post
    The thread title is a little misleading. The Texas Senate has passed the bill. It still needs to go to the House and then the governor needs to sign it.

    From the article:
    Sorry, you are correct. Not sure if I can edit it but once I get back home I'll check.

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    --Mod fixed title for you--
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-05-2013 at 09:52 PM.
    Once more into the fray.
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    Live and die on this day.
    Live and die on this day.



    "I knew one thing: as soon as anyone said you didn't need a gun, you'd better take one along that worked."
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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    The Texas House is considering several good 2A bills this Saturday. Some are mostly " housekeeping" measures.
    Stay tuned.

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    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MainelyGlock View Post
    It'd be awesome if Maine allowed something like this.

    So far, it's limited to keeping guns locked in cars, but hopefully that will transition to allowing on-person carry.

    "During the debate on the Senate floor, Democratic Sen. Jose Rodriguez of El Paso argued the bill would lead to allowing guns in college classrooms. He later told FoxNews.com, “I opposed the bill because, given today’s climate and the rise of crime on ours campuses, the last thing we need to do is pass a bill like this."

    Sounds like Jose is serving the wrong state.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/30/texas-senate-approves-guns-in-locked-cars-on-college-campuses-now-heads-to/#ixzz2SA79dYmu"



    So Democrat Rodriguez says there has been a rise in crime on our campuses. Citation please, Senator. It is my understanding that violent crime rates have gone down significantly in the last 22 years all across the nation, and that would include our campuses. There have been very high profile shootings in all venues, but they are rare events. A recent poll showed that many Americans think gun crimes are increasing. The propaganda people must be proud.....

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Isn't it funny that banning firearms is supposed to be the legislation that makes classrooms safer and then they turn around and say that rising crime on campus justifies keeping guns out... Wait... What? So you mean the ban ISN'T effective at reducing crime on campus, and that the ineffectiveness of the legislation justifies the continuation of the prohibition? I don't follow. I think someone must have their head up their rear.

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    Not his state, his organization

    Quote Originally Posted by MainelyGlock View Post
    It'd be awesome if Maine allowed something like this.

    So far, it's limited to keeping guns locked in cars, but hopefully that will transition to allowing on-person carry.

    "During the debate on the Senate floor, Democratic Sen. Jose Rodriguez of El Paso argued the bill would lead to allowing guns in college classrooms. He later told FoxNews.com, “I opposed the bill because, given today’s climate and the rise of crime on ours campuses, the last thing we need to do is pass a bill like this."

    Sounds like Jose is serving the wrong state.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/30/texas-senate-approves-guns-in-locked-cars-on-college-campuses-now-heads-to/#ixzz2SA79dYmu"
    He gets a lot of funding and other support from La Raza .Follow the money and in kind donation trail..

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    And we thought we had it bad in Ohio.

    Q: Can I Open Carry in Texas (in Public)?
    A: You can openly carry rifles and shotguns, but not handguns. A CHL is not needed to do this. However, you must do so in a manner not "calculated" to cause alarm; meaning you are carrying the rifle to purposely intimidate or scare people.

    Q: Why Can't I Open Carry my Handgun in Texas (in Public)?
    A: Texas has long had a prohibition on the open display of handguns. This dates back to the days of Cowboys in the "Wild West" era of the 1800s; contrary to public opinion.

    Wyoming has Constitutional carry. They know what the Constitution actually means.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    ...Wyoming has Constitutional carry. They know what the Constitution actually means.
    Sort of. WY's "Constitutional Carry" only applies to its own residents, not other visiting citizens of the United States.
    Last edited by MAC702; 08-08-2013 at 03:54 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    It would be awesome if Texas allowed open carry, and could therefore reasonably be considered less anti-gun than, say, Maryland or New Jersey.

    As it stands, meh.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    <snip> Yes, progress is progress. But how long do we keep taking baby steps before we are allowed to walk like the responsible citizens we are?

    stay safe.
    How long do you have? Just keep hanging on and someone will get right back to you. Or, you could mosey on down to the Lone Start State and "encourage" those politicians to adhere to a schedule more to your liking. Your choice.

    Anyway.

    Well, this is good news. The next time I am on a Texas college campi I'll be sure to exercise a little. OC off campus is of less importance I see.

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    Texas Senate Passes Guns On Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Sort of. WY's "Constitutional Carry" only applies to its own residents, not other visiting citizens of the United States.
    Hmmmm...If they consider it a Right such that it is not regulated, how can they deny it to US citizens who are not Wyoming residents?

    If they require a permit for "Constitutional Carry," then it is not "Constitutional Carry." Constitutional Carry should mean that no permission slip is required to carry virtually everywhere in publicly-owned spaces. Do they require a permission slip?


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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    ^^QFT^^

    +1 to you Sir.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Sort of. WY's "Constitutional Carry" only applies to its own residents, not other visiting citizens of the United States.
    Is that even... (wait for it) Constitutional?

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Is that even... (wait for it) Constitutional?
    Exactly my point. They do NOT have true "Constitutional carry."

    I travel through WY frequently. I am a US Citizen. I am not allowed to carry concealed there without a permission slip.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Exactly my point. They do NOT have true "Constitutional carry."

    I travel through WY frequently. I am a US Citizen. I am not allowed to carry concealed there without a permission slip.
    What I meant was, is it Constitutional (in the strict sense) to create such privileges which are excluded to citizens from other states? Doesn't the 14 amendment prohibit that?

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    What I meant was, is it Constitutional (in the strict sense) to create such privileges which are excluded to citizens from other states? Doesn't the 14 amendment prohibit that?
    That's an outstanding point, and you made it obvious. It was my own mental block at the time that didn't see it.

    I don't know how their law is worded, but it is also common that states require higher fees for nonresidents in things like hunting licenses and public college tuitions, but there is a significant difference here.

    You may be on to something.

    This is the portion of the text of the 14th that I found relevant: "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    I'm no Constitutional law expert. Honestly, that's almost gobbledegook to me in regarding differentiating between state residents and nonresidents. I may need to think more on it tomorrow after coffee.
    Last edited by MAC702; 08-09-2013 at 02:11 AM.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    A few years back Virginia instituted a law which created hefty new fines, but only for residents. This was done away with fairly quickly due to immense unpopularity, but there was quite a bit of talk at the time that it was likely unconstitutional to create penalties which did or did not apply depending solely on where you lived.

    It's one thing to have slightly different processes for in- and out-of-state residents. It's quite another to create an entire class of crime (in this case, carrying a concealed weapon) which simply doesn't exist for one group of people (in this case, residents).

    That sure seems like denying that group "within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    But I'm not familiar with much case law about this issue.



    Edit: There was a SCOTUS case earlier this year over Virginia's FOIA being available only to residents. I found the following bit of dicta:

    This does not mean, we have
    cautioned, that "state citizenship or residency may never
    be used by a State to distinguish among persons." Baldwin v. Fish and Game Comm'n of Mont., 436 U. S. 371,
    383 (1978). "Nor must a State always apply all its laws or
    all its services equally to anyone, resident or nonresident,
    who may request it so to do." Ibid. Rather, we have long
    held that the Privileges and Immunities Clause protects
    only those privileges and immunities that are "fundamental."
    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...shtml#comments

    The court goes on to explain that FOIA act requests are not a "fundamental" privilege.

    It would seem to me that, in a previous age, this sort of thing wasn't a big deal. States could simply prohibit carrying weapons, but make an exemption for permit-holders. Nothing would require them, however, to offer the permit-granting service to non-residents.

    However, today we have an undisputed individual right to keep and bear arms. (Note that the SCOTUS expanded "privileges" from merely acts created by the fedgov, such as voting, to essentially all "fundamental" rights, such as owning property and traveling interstate). Moreover, laws such as Wyoming's are passed in explicit recognition and furtherance of this fact.

    It seems quite audacious to recognize that something is a right, do away with the licensure thereof, but then, oh well, forget that pesky 14th amendment, this right doesn't apply to non-residents after all.
    Last edited by marshaul; 08-09-2013 at 05:14 AM.

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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Sort of. WY's "Constitutional Carry" only applies to its own residents, not other visiting citizens of the United States.
    what's wyoming's "stop and identify" law? are open carriers required to prove identity?

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    "I opposed the bill because, given today’s climate and the rise of crime on ours campuses"

    Is there a "climate and rise of crime" on our campuses? I wasn't aware of such a situation. I am aware that we are at a 4 decade low for crime nationwide, but I can't speak for Texas campuses. Is this referencing an actual situation in the real world?

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