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Thread: Became an open carrier today in Aurora CO

  1. #1
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    Became an open carrier today in Aurora CO

    I have my concealed carry permit and I have never cared about open carry until I read about the gentleman at the pride parade in the Springs getting arrested for open carry. I decided to take a ride to the aurora police dept and ask a few questions. I was very let down by the responses. They strongly advised me against my right to open carry and told me that the police do have the right to card me even if I have done nothing wrong. I assured them that I would not show my id for abiding the laws of my city and let him know that law enforcers like himself were the problem of this country because he does not stand up for the laws they are supposed to be enforcing. I couldn't believe he tried to persuade me against the very right he is supposed to uphold.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cquick86 View Post
    They strongly advised me against my right to open carry and told me that the police do have the right to card me even if I have done nothing wrong.
    They're strongly advised to stick their opinions where da sun don't shine.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 05-03-2013 at 07:35 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    Did you honestly expect anything different from Aurora PD?
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

  4. #4
    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
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    Why would you take a trip to the PD? If you have OC questions, this forum is a much better and more honest place to get answers from.
    Once more into the fray.
    Into the last good fight I'll ever know.
    Live and die on this day.
    Live and die on this day.



    "I knew one thing: as soon as anyone said you didn't need a gun, you'd better take one along that worked."
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    I knew the law before I went. Just wanted to see what vibe I got from them.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Amigo!
    First mistake, never ask the cops for what you may lawfully do. They ain't much interested in what's lawful, or what your rights are. That ain't the business they're in. They are much more interested in busting people and building a rep than upholding an oath to the Constitution of the USA or the Constitution of the State of Colorado. They get paid to make arrests. But not all the Aurora cops are like that. You just drew the short straw in your encounter. There have been, I should note, many Aurora cops that complimented me for OC'ing my sidearm. Some have engaged me in conversation to express their support for exercising my right to carry.

    With the above being said, I live in Aurora and OC everyday, everywhere, at all times. I do not receive any hassle. They often see me OC'ing, and they may watch what I'm doing, but they get bored pretty quickly and move on to more important matters soon enough. How they respond to you is going to be largely based on your own comportment while carrying. Your demeanor is going to mold their attitude, for the most part anyhow.

    I'd also like to note that a survey of police officers (largest one ever conducted) at www.policeone.com on the topic of gun control turned up a whole bunch of surprises. Most cops support our 2a rights, and most of them recognize that the new anti-citizen legislation in Colorado and elsewhere is simply poppycock.

    So carry on, enjoy Colorado, and stick to your guns. You are right to do so because it is your right.

    Maybe we'll cross paths one of these days, though you may not realize I ain't a cop!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Actually they don't have the right to ask you for ID simply because you are carrying a holstered firearm. I don't know the name of the case (I am sure others here do) that helped establish a precedent on this, but the gist is if they don't have a RAS (reasonable articulatable suspicion) that you are committing a crime, they can't shake you down for ID just because you have a firearm (which you are lawfully carrying under the Colorado Constitution).

    It would actually be a good idea if there was a card like a business card or 3X5 that listed some of these important legal facts and cases that firearms owners could get, laminte or keep in wallet. Then when hassled by the bad seed in a local police dept they will have the knowledge on hand to send the wanna-be Gestapo thug back to school - or inform him up front about his pending violation of rights to which he can then claim no igorance to avoid repercussions back against his poor job performance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MainelyGlock View Post
    Why would you take a trip to the PD? If you have OC questions, this forum is a much better and more honest place to get answers from.
    Unless these people are lawyers, I would say a forum is not a good place to seek legal advice.

  9. #9
    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle8338 View Post
    Unless these people are lawyers, I would say a forum is not a good place to seek legal advice.
    And you think all cops hold law degrees? There's a few attorneys that I've seen on here.
    Once more into the fray.
    Into the last good fight I'll ever know.
    Live and die on this day.
    Live and die on this day.



    "I knew one thing: as soon as anyone said you didn't need a gun, you'd better take one along that worked."
    Raymond Chandler

  10. #10
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxxon View Post
    Actually they don't have the right to ask you for ID simply because you are carrying a holstered firearm. I don't know the name of the case (I am sure others here do) that helped establish a precedent on this,
    Howdy Pard!
    Not the only one, but the primary would be St. John v. Alamagordo Public Safety.
    Guy was sitting quietly in a movie theater, somebody MWAG'd him, and they came to question him.
    As he wasn't committing a crime, had not already committed a crime nor was about to commit a crime, the judge figured they had no reason to detain him for questioning. Simply carrying a firearm (lawfully) was not grounds for reasonable articulable suspicion.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 05-12-2013 at 09:38 AM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle8338 View Post
    Unless these people are lawyers, I would say a forum is not a good place to seek legal advice.
    Howdy Amigo!
    And that should be of great comfort to you when surrounded by a cadre of cops telling you "ignorance of the law is NO EXCUSE".

    It happened to one of the guys on this thread.... they said that to him.... and he was taken to jail.
    But evidently, the cops did not know the law. Our friend did, and he stood on his KNOWLEDGE of the law. It was the cops that had no real excuse.
    It was they who did not know the law. 5 cops, 3 of whom were sargeants, and not one of them knew the law.
    Ergo, they ended up landing the city on the wrong side of a legal problem. A big one.
    Thank goodness our friend KNEW the law... and stuck to his guns.
    And he knew the law because we encourge reading the specific Colorado Revised Statutes,
    the Colorado Constitution, the Colorado Bill of Rights, and similar documents to avoid "ignorance of the law" as he got busted by poor excuses for cops who did not know the law.

    What really proves bad advice is telling somebody they should not ask questions of people who know (though not lawyers) what the laws are because they've done their homework and prepared for the possibility their RIGHTS would be called into question:
    Article 2, Section 13. Right to bear arms. The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question;

    How on earth would you exercise your RIGHTS if you DO NOT KNOW THEM??????
    And who better to ask for specifics than the folks who exercise their rights every day of their lives?

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  12. #12
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle8338 View Post
    Unless these people are lawyers, I would say a forum is not a good place to seek legal advice.
    D.E. you are partially right, but wrong in the intent. never never ask a LEO about the law, at best you will get the comoany policy , at worst you will get his opinion. most of the time have nothing to do with law.

    as far as people on this forum. there are some very bright people here, BUT you should never take anything as fact that you can not verify yourself. do your research, know the law forward and back. when dealing with any LEO decide what stance you are going to take and be, "friendly, fair, but firm"

    SAXXON, they do have the right to ask you for ID. they can ask you how many times a week you have sex. doesn't mean you have to answer them. even if you have committed a crime, committing a crime or going to commit a crime. it is the 4th and 5th Amendment. of course there is those stupid "inform laws" that your Paid permission slips are connected with. IF you want to keep them you are required to violate you constitutional rights
    Last edited by papa bear; 05-12-2013 at 03:01 PM.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MainelyGlock View Post
    Why would you take a trip to the PD? If you have OC questions, this forum is a much better and more honest place to get answers from.
    Bingo. I've discussed OC with about a dozen different officers in the Colorado Springs Police Department. Most get it, and a few strongly support it, but the third that don't get it flub the law six ways to Sunday. They've insisted that several things are so, yet when I ask them to please cite the reference, they're unable to so, yet insist, "It's in there. Just look it up." Naturally, when I do, I find the opposite of what they claim.

    I've thought about writing them, but I've also considered how much it would feel like tilting at windmills. The ones who flub the law aren't exactly what I'd consider "teachable." They're hard-headed know-it-alls who'd just get ticked off by being proved wrong by someone who isn't a sworn officer like themselves.

    Thankfully, they're in the minority. Most of the CSPD men and women in blue "get it."

    In the meantime, if you're looking for honest, factual, thoroughly-considered answers, I've found this forum to be significantly more accurate with respect to both statutory and case law than the local police department.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Bingo. I've discussed OC with about a dozen different officers in the Colorado Springs Police Department. Most get it, and a few strongly support it, but the third that don't get it flub the law six ways to Sunday. They've insisted that several things are so, yet when I ask them to please cite the reference, they're unable to so, yet insist, "It's in there. Just look it up." Naturally, when I do, I find the opposite of what they claim.

    I've thought about writing them, but I've also considered how much it would feel like tilting at windmills. The ones who flub the law aren't exactly what I'd consider "teachable." They're hard-headed know-it-alls who'd just get ticked off by being proved wrong by someone who isn't a sworn officer like themselves.

    Thankfully, they're in the minority. Most of the CSPD men and women in blue "get it."

    In the meantime, if you're looking for honest, factual, thoroughly-considered answers, I've found this forum to be significantly more accurate with respect to both statutory and case law than the local police department.

    The cop I spoke with was not rude or refusing to admit that open carry is legal, he just recommended I don't because it looks suspicious and scares people. He wouldn't say if I could refuse to show id

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    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
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    Two part question:

    1. Do you have to carry ID when you are not on your property, or in your home, not driving, not armed, just walking down the street?

    2. Do you have to have ID on your person if you are armed, but not concealed?

    Ask the officer to quote the state or local laws that mandate these requirements. Remember that laws mandate we we canNOT do, laws never mandate what we can do. Cops lie, cops are ignorant of the law, and cops will make their own rules and knowingly damn well it just pure BS. Now if a citizen lies to a cop, they can be charged, a lying cop is pretty much standard procedure.

    In NC, I do not have to have ID on my person if I am on the streets, and it does not matter if I am unarmed or OC'ing. I do have to have my ID and CHP if I am carrying concealed.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cquick86 View Post
    The cop I spoke with was not rude or refusing to admit that open carry is legal, he just recommended I don't because it looks suspicious and scares people. He wouldn't say if I could refuse to show id
    That's usually the point where I chuckle, tell him I've been OCI'ing for three years, and have yet to observe anyone reacting in a manner which might be characterized as "scared." Then I ask him why in the world would he think law-abiding citizens are "scary." If he says, "because you're carrying a firearm," remind him that lots of people in Colorado carry firearms, and welcome him to Colorado!
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  17. #17
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cquick86 View Post
    The cop I spoke with was not rude or refusing to admit that open carry is legal, he just recommended I don't because it looks suspicious and scares people. He wouldn't say if I could refuse to show id
    just out of curiosity. suspicious of what?
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  18. #18
    Regular Member NagChampa's Avatar
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    avoid cops and government like the plague. thats what they are.

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