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Thread: Brandishing

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Brandishing

    I should have gone fishing with RiverRat!

    It was a long night and an early morning. I came back to meet one of the members here at RCD and deliver some items he's bought.
    We stayed on for the breakfast and even though I was tired and humiliated for carrying a Glockwhich I didn't even have on (Had a shotgun in the car)...it was just another great morning with good friends.

    I decided to go to the gunshow and see if they had any powder, which they didn't...but things went downhill early.

    There is a vendor that sells those grab your butt holsters, that is always a pain in the A&&...(Pun intended) but today he was worse.

    I said hello to Tess at the VCDL Table and my wife was talking to her. Grabyerbutt was at the next table and he started on me about his stupid holsters.

    I said "I Open Carry". Oh then I can kill you any time I want he said.

    I told him where I came from someone that walked around with his hands down his pants was either lonesome or straddled too many fences.

    He reached around behind his back and pulled out a 1911, pointed it at me and said "Now that's so fast it doesn't matter what people think".

    That made me mad and I said..."Looked pretty slow to me and you point that gun at me again we're going out back".

    He went into his best Gangs of LA routine and said "Yeah, we can go out back but that doesn't matter. What matters is how many holes I can put in you before we get there.

    Ass whuppin time!
    My wife saw what was happening and grabbed me with her usual "What are you doing?" and yanked me to the other side of the isle (She's tougher than I am so I went along)...anyway, we got to the front of the building and saw Bruce Jackson and his dog. I said hello and Bruce said he was working the VCDL table.

    I asked Bruce who that idiot was and he said (I don't know but he's a hell of a salesman). I explained what was going on and Bruce just said, tell the show sponsor (Who were right there).

    I did tell them and they went back there. No idea what happened and don't really care. I bought a few things then went to dinner.

    I have some serious questions about training and attitudes though.

    Here we have Scouser who was charged with Brandising for simply putting his gun in his holster in his own car. VCDL's only statement I know of was, this will teach him to never touch his gun.

    But a vendor points a gun at a helpless elderly man and threatens him and a VCDL Board member says he's a hell of a salesman.

    Something is just not right there.
    Last edited by peter nap; 05-04-2013 at 04:43 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    aren't ALL firearms supposed to be zip tied at the shows?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    aren't ALL firearms supposed to be zip tied at the shows?
    See, there you go again, trying to make the world act according to the rules.

    Presuming what he brought out from behind his back was not obviously a blue/red gun* there is a high likelihood that there would be bruises, if not contusions, abrasions, and/or fractures to be attended to. Unlke some of the more restrained, calm, patient and understanding members here I do not wait to see what someone will actually do when they present what a reasonable person would apprehend as an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury.

    The Keeper may be more patient than all of the saints assembled, but I would risk her umbrage at my behavior in order to increase the odds of being made to eat naught but salads for several months as opposed to knowing she would be auctioning off my toys at bargain-basement prices in the mistaken belief that quantity can beat quality.

    As for the organizational responses - what did you expect? It was not a gun rights issue. The victims of criminals have their own organizations to take up the matter.

    stay safe.

    * - why are even fake/practice/training/toy guns divided along political lines. Can't we all just get along?
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    I am at a loss for words...
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    See, there you go again, trying to make the world act according to the rules.

    Presuming what he brought out from behind his back was not obviously a blue/red gun* there is a high likelihood that there would be bruises, if not contusions, abrasions, and/or fractures to be attended to. Unlke some of the more restrained, calm, patient and understanding members here I do not wait to see what someone will actually do when they present what a reasonable person would apprehend as an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury.

    The Keeper may be more patient than all of the saints assembled, but I would risk her umbrage at my behavior in order to increase the odds of being made to eat naught but salads for several months as opposed to knowing she would be auctioning off my toys at bargain-basement prices in the mistaken belief that quantity can beat quality.

    As for the organizational responses - what did you expect? It was not a gun rights issue. The victims of criminals have their own organizations to take up the matter.

    stay safe.

    * - why are even fake/practice/training/toy guns divided along political lines. Can't we all just get along?
    I don't think that was a prop Skid. It looked like a fully functional 1911.

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I think there must be something being released into the air. Stooppid people are acting more stoopider than usual
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Brandishing

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I don't think that was a prop Skid. It looked like a fully functional 1911.
    He's fortunate you did not leave "1191 tolC" on his forehead if you had decided to beat him with it.

    Then the talk about shooting you before y'all even made it outside.

    He is lucky. Or you are longsuffering. Or both.

  8. #8
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palerider116 View Post
    He's fortunate you did not leave "1191 tolC" on his forehead if you had decided to beat him with it.

    Then the talk about shooting you before y'all even made it outside.

    He is lucky. Or you are longsuffering. Or both.
    You never know who the lucky one is till it's over. Sure did make me mad though.

  9. #9
    Regular Member HearseGuy's Avatar
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    Was this a kinda short and out of shape black dude, kinda older? Something about "Concealment Holsters" on his banner?

    I got into it with him about open carry. He then proceeded to pull out a 1911 chambered in .45, and stick it in some guys stomach to show how fast he could draw. He is extremely annoying. It was zip tied but I don't care. He done it to me instinct may have made me break his wrist
    Additional text for your reading pleasure...

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HearseGuy View Post
    Was this a kinda short and out of shape black dude, kinda older? Something about "Concealment Holsters" on his banner?

    I got into it with him about open carry. He then proceeded to pull out a 1911 chambered in .45, and stick it in some guys stomach to show how fast he could draw. He is extremely annoying. It was zip tied but I don't care. He done it to me instinct may have made me break his wrist
    That's him!

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    Quote Originally Posted by HearseGuy View Post
    Was this a kinda short and out of shape black dude, kinda older? Something about "Concealment Holsters" on his banner?

    I got into it with him about open carry. He then proceeded to pull out a 1911 chambered in .45, and stick it in some guys stomach to show how fast he could draw. He is extremely annoying. It was zip tied but I don't care. He done it to me instinct may have made me break his wrist
    Sounds like someone who should go out of business due to no customers and no gun shows that will allow him to offer products for sale... and that ain't a racist comment--- I don't care what color he is or isn't!

    I don't care how "good" his product is or isn't--- his behavior as described is reprehensible!
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 05-04-2013 at 06:35 PM.
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  12. #12
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like you had "a good faith belief, based on objective fact, that you were faced with the imminent threat of a serious bodily injury." He's lucky you didn't kill him. Were there any witnesses? Sounds like a trip to the magistrate to me.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HearseGuy View Post
    Was this a kinda short and out of shape black dude, kinda older? Something about "Concealment Holsters" on his banner?

    I got into it with him about open carry. He then proceeded to pull out a 1911 chambered in .45, and stick it in some guys stomach to show how fast he could draw. He is extremely annoying. It was zip tied but I don't care. He done it to me instinct may have made me break his wrist
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    That's him!
    I know who you're talking about now. I generally avoid the aisle he's in whenever I see him simply because I'm sure I've never seen any of the firearms he pulls out to be zip tied and I've always thought his handling was beyond reckless

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    Unbelievable....yeah, I'm with user's take on this. I personally would have a hard time trying to balance him being "just" an idiot that seems to me to have broken at least a law or two vs. an idiot who might be a rule breaker as well (like cutting the zip tie off).


    Funny thing is that I hear that your draw gets slower and slower the more often someone takes a guy like that's arm right out of his socket and shoves it right up....
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    You never know who the lucky one is till it's over. Sure did make me mad though.

    At this point I think that it's safe to say that he was the lucky one. I'm amazed that you kept cool.
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    I am amazed & aghast.
    At the very least, I would have yelled at him... something to the effect of "DON'T THREATEN ME WITH THAT GUN!"
    Hopefully that would be followed up by grabbing it & shoving it toward the ground. Too bad so sad if he gets some tender bits injured in the process.
    And once the immediate problem was dealt with, find a cop & swear out a complaint (or however it's done out there).

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    --snip-- Sounds like a trip to the magistrate to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    --snip-- swear out a complaint (or however it's done out there).
    I second both motions
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Sounds to me like you had "a good faith belief, based on objective fact, that you were faced with the imminent threat of a serious bodily injury." He's lucky you didn't kill him. Were there any witnesses? Sounds like a trip to the magistrate to me.
    So let me get this straight... Scouser gets arrested and incarcerated for 13 hours, faces on the upper side of 5 figures for a legal defense, for simply moving a legally carried gun from one secured container to another, and THIS GUY spends all day trying to make sales by sticking a gun in peoples' guts, and nothing happens to him?

    Sounds like he needs a visitor from his local area boys in blue or brown on Monday morning.

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    So let me get this straight... Scouser gets arrested and incarcerated for 13 hours, faces on the upper side of 5 figures for a legal defense, for simply moving a legally carried gun from one secured container to another, and THIS GUY spends all day trying to make sales by sticking a gun in peoples' guts, and nothing happens to him?

    Sounds like he needs a visitor from his local area boys in blue or brown on Monday morning.

    TFred
    Yeah; and he won't get any help from me. In fact, I'm kind of mulling over a civil suit for assault.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

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    Re: Brandishing

    Ha I saw that guy at dulles expo. He was extremely annoying and obnoxious. I avoided his area after he yanked a huge wheel gun from his pants and shook it like he was high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Yeah; and he won't get any help from me. In fact, I'm kind of mulling over a civil suit for assault.
    Go USER!!!!!!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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  22. #22
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    This is crazy. What the hell is this guy thinking? A walk across the show floor to the nearest state or county police officer to inform him of what took place might be in order. Why not post the name of his business so that other gun people can see it and steer clean of him at shows? Also so they can spread the word around. Hit him where it hurts; his wallet. We do not need this type of behavior from anyone in our ranks. Make this guy's life miserable.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Agree

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    This is crazy. What the hell is this guy thinking? A walk across the show floor to the nearest state or county police officer to inform him of what took place might be in order. Why not post the name of his business so that other gun people can see it and steer clean of him at shows? Also so they can spread the word around. Hit him where it hurts; his wallet. We do not need this type of behavior from anyone in our ranks. Make this guy's life miserable.
    +1000, or as they used to say in my day, "What he said!"

  24. #24
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    Go for it!

    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Yeah; and he won't get any help from me. In fact, I'm kind of mulling over a civil suit for assault.
    And the next time you see one of the "central committee" members, could you send some more cards down. I have passed on your data to a number of folks that would like to carry your card as I do.

    Thanks.

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    To be honest, I don't know the name of his business. If anyone goes to the show, he's the table to the right facing the VCDL table.

    I could have gone up front and told one of the cops or go to the Magistrate but it would violate my #1 rule. Never call a cop. Just fussing with the show promoter was out of character. I really don't say things just to hear myself. I don't have a CHP because I believe what I say and I don't dial 911 because I believe what I say.

    I couldn't shoot him because I didn't have a gun. I wouldn't have if I did. I wasn't afraid of him. I didn't think he was going to shoot me in the middle of the show...I was mad that he'd point it at me then run his mouth like a street mugger.

    I could have hit him and in fact...was headed that way. Thankfully I was intercepted because I'd been the one to get locked up. That's why my wife is known as "The Keeper". I don't show good judgment at times and have a bad temper age hasn't mellowed a lot.

    Gunshows have been under siege this year and Bloomberg would love to hear about Vendors Brandishing or Bad Tempered Attendees (AKA Angry White Men).....so arresting him would be harmful from a PR standpoint.

    I've been doing a very slow burn over VCDL's position about brandishing and Bruce's attitude didn't help, although I think he just wanted to avoid any conflict.....BUT, that seems to be the position of VCDL on the subject anyway.
    Years ago they would have been all over Scousers Case and raising hell about setting up next to the mad Drawer Holsterman. That's the price of success though.
    Last edited by peter nap; 05-05-2013 at 10:02 AM.

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