HB 436 Wording

SavageOne said:

As far as "steps" go, those who worked to get this done have said their work is done. They are satisfied with this legislation and will see no reason to go for full preemption.

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I do believe my own postings have made it more than clear that this is an out right lie. I would also like to be very sure that you are clear, I mean BOTH sentences are lies.

There are even photos posted of several of us who worked diligently to see 21.750 changed this year and we got it further than ever before, out of committee.

Go whine some where else, ain't got no cheese for you here. Want to step up to the plate and take a swing?I have offered to stand beside and help anyone who does.

It is listening to folks bitch that is running advocates away, it makes one wonder why they even tried.

LMTD said:

I do believe my own postings have made it more than clear that this is an out right lie. I would also like to be very sure that you are clear, I mean BOTH sentences are lies.

There are even photos posted of several of us who worked diligently to see 21.750 changed this year and we got it further than ever before, out of committee.

Go whine some where else, ain't got no cheese for you here. Want to step up to the plate and take a swing?I have offered to stand beside and help anyone who does.

It is listening to folks bitch that is running advocates away, it makes one wonder why they even tried.

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Well Said!

LMTD said:

I do believe my own postings have made it more than clear that this is an out right lie. I would also like to be very sure that you are clear, I mean BOTH sentences are lies.

There are even photos posted of several of us who worked diligently to see 21.750 changed this year and we got it further than ever before, out of committee.

Go whine some where else, ain't got no cheese for you here. Want to step up to the plate and take a swing?I have offered to stand beside and help anyone who does.

It is listening to folks bitch that is running advocates away, it makes one wonder why they even tried.

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Savage: I would give advice, but as far as engaing in the movement that brought us to the point of where we are, NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
You panty wetters who whine and bitch just pissed me off.
This was darn near a full time job for the past four months. And "you" don't like it? Welcome to the real world.

The OC amendment in HB436 does nothing to hinder the rights of people who now OC without issues. It grants this right to people who wish to OC in a municipality that prohibits but they must have a CCW endorsement, and cannot carry a long gun. Preemption would be better and most likey would pass next year if it is sought. Now stop whining and go to work to get it done, the clock is ticking and thanks to this bill you are one step closer.

well said MSPGUNNER, some people will NVR be happy, so please on behalf of everyone that appreciates everything you and your peeps did we THANK YOU! Anyone with a real since of realism understands how hard you guys worked and I for one know I could not even take off work let alone spend the countless hours you guys have put in including possibly putting family activites aside, outings, trips or anything else.

Again, THANKS!

WANT DO WANT DO WANT DO WANT DO WANT DO WANT DO WANT DO
- the endless bickering here. Maybe I can make that my sig!

It's understandable if someone believes that getting a permit to exercise 2A is a bad thing. That's a political and possibly a tactical viewpoint. There are valid reasons for believing that way. It's not just about do vs want, it's a different belief about what to do and what to want. Deal with it. You could compare it with discussions the Founders were having when starting this country, and they were arguing on some issues. (I don't think they were calling each other schoolyard insults so much, but I guess things were different then.) Currently you're in a position to taunt, but be careful telling all your opponents to do something, or they may follow your advice and successfully accomplish something you don't agree with!

That's how I originally felt about permits - I detested them and felt that I should not ask the government for permission. I still feel that way deep down. However, after seeing this effort I decided that it could be a very good thing for daily life and a good step towards the ideal IF people don't forget to keep pursuing (keep WANTING) true 2A carry. But the more urgent reason I support it this year is because America needs to see OC in order to affect the national public sentiment about guns. OC is limited with a patchwork of different laws, and the more people OC, the more we condition the public.

So I support the view that we should be vigilant about the danger of needing permits to exercise rights, but I believe it's very helpful to partially destroy all the local ordinance against OC and make it easier for people to carry. Probably it helps us to have some people that hate permits to the extent they wouldn't give in and get one to save their life, and others who take a reasonable compromise to get a step closer from where we were to where we need to be. That way we have progress and we have vigilance. That makes me happy. If anyone wants to flame me or use 3rd grade type communication to deride me because I have some sympathy with both sides on this particular point, be my guest and make my day. (Yes, I will do something. No, I will not shut up. You're not my boss or my wife, and we're not in 3rd grade so I don't care about any insults. Sorry to disappoint. I freely express my beliefs. I do tip my hat to those who get things done, though.)

This is a forum, it's a place to talk. It's both funny and sad to see people spend so much energy trying to suppress other views when they are (yeah I know, I know, sue me/bite me) on the general "same side" of being pro-gun. If that's what gets you off, so be it, but don't be surprised and lose control of bodily functions if you fail to shut up everyone who doesn't agree on some of those points! It's good advice to DO something, but unrealistic to expect to think you can shut down every WANT that is posted on a web forum. (Review what a web forum is.) Unless you can influence the forum administration or clamp down on free speech somehow, you'll just have to live with it.

Hopefully some of those WANTS will become DOs in future! Every DO started off as a WANT. That's how life works. (Unless you came out the womb in a senator's office, bill in hand, and started talking about it as soon as your head poked out - in which case I withdraw my argument - I gotta admit that's not wasting any time getting on the DO wagon.) Otherwise everyone began WANTING, and the person you call stooopid may pass a bill a few years from now. Maybe they'll do it in 2 years instead of 3. However long it takes, a good action is a good thing, and it starts with a good desire.

Besides, some thinking, including some talking and arguing about what is RIGHT, should come BEFORE taking action. Doing is very good, but an endless mantra of DO DO instead of normal discussion is in danger of becoming ... "DOO-DOO". People have to get the right idea first, then pursue it. Going after a half-baked idea can be dangerous.

Meanwhile, if interested people find this forum and see 2A supporters acting like monkeys at each other (and yes, I have seen real monkeys up close and personal roaming on the streets, in another part of the world, and yes it is looks just about like what I see here sometimes with the bickering) is it really helping the cause? Is it really the way to be a role model in both speech and action?

SavageOne said:

How, exactly, is this a win for OC? OC does not require a permit in MO. OC does not require a background check in MO. OC does not require you be fingerprinted in MO. OC does not require you renew anything every 3 years in MO. OC does not require any of these things in MO because OC in MO is a right . This is the same bill that I opposed last year, because all it does is expand the privileges of CCW holders. It does not protect the rights of MO citizens to exercise their rights unhindered. Please explain how having to pay to exercise rights is a win in your book.

As far as "steps" go, those who worked to get this done have said their work is done. They are satisfied with this legislation and will see no reason to go for full preemption. Unfortunately, they have left real OC in a hole it will have to climb out of. How much harder will it now be to get legislators to listen about preemption, when in their minds the problem has already been addressed?

So, please forgive those of us who opposed this legislation last year, if we aren't doing cartwheels now. It's just that our true goal may have been pushed farther away in the name of progress.

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I had a mean reply typed out, but it occurs to me that we're, unfortunately, making the same mistakes that SavageOne has. We've been overly critical and are jumping down his throat from the get-go.

For that, my apologies, SavageOne.

We all feel passionate about our OC rights, both here in Missouri and across the country. There's been ample explanation of why the current bill is good, and ample admission that it's not absolutely perfect. Politics is a business of compromise, unfortunately, and this is the best compromise we had available this year. That may change, but it will take very active and willing people to make it change.

Best of luck to all as our fight for Freedom continues.

What is the reason for the Speaker of House and Senate waiting until May 22 to sign HB436 and send it to the Gov? Didn't it pass on May 8?

HVW, your inability to discuss issues and your constant use of attacking people instead with crude insults reflects badly on yourself, not on me. As for that one filthy slur, it's you that have such behavior on your mind, and I pity you for that. (That's sickening.) I support all worthy 2A and OC efforts, and oppose efforts such as yours to divide and weaken our community by attacking 2A and OC supporters who disagree on certain points.

HP995 said:

I support all worthy 2A and OC efforts, and oppose efforts such as yours to divide and weaken our community by attacking 2A and OC supporters who disagree on certain points.

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You support nothing and no one.
You only seek to obfuscate an occupy all sides an issue in order to sow dissension, all the while projecting your own secret agenda on to others.

Met your kind many times before :arrow:

Secret agenda...OK, I think that last post sheds some light on the mindset of some people doing the attacking here. My posts speak for themselves, my agenda is to support all 2A/OC efforts and discourage unproductive attacks within pro-gun community.

HP995 you are one of those psychologically disturbed people who get in the passing lane and try block anyone from overtaking them.
Something in your psyche just cannot handle that others are moving past you ...... that you are irrelevant.

The 'community' does not need you to discourage/protect anyone.
It will and has produced winners who have moved the ball forward - no thanks to you or me.

So get yourself to a psychiatrist and deal with your passive/aggressive issues and let the Big Boys do their jobs.
Otherwise, like you - I will self appoint myself a 'community protector' and be in your grille 24/7

It is unacceptable to Eat at the table another has set for you and to then proceed to make comments about how the roast could have been cooked differently, that the vegetables are too soft or that the bread is too hard.
Those types of guests are immediately unwanted, as they disturb the comity and good society of the whole table .... ruining the meal for all.

Eat your food and say thank you
or
Leave gracefully and set your own table

HVW, read carefully:

1. You're making personal attacks, sometimes obscene ones, and libelous claims about people rather than discussing or arguing the issues themselves.

2. Sometimes you're not accurately understanding what is said. Attacking based on a careless read is even worse. If you want to ignore me feel free to do so, but don't misrepresent and then make personal insults.

3. Feel free to tag along, but if you keep personally harassing me and using obscene insults, I will keep reporting your posts to moderators. Understood? Thanks! Hopefully you will go about your business here and not make a habit of insulting and stalking.

Sad lad. That is really sick again, wanting to make fun of disabled people too. And you delight in trying to make people have emotional pain? Now I begin to understand some of your posts. This is by your own admission.

My goal is simple, to unite 2A/OC against gun grabbers, less internal bickering means more focus on the problem.

However, due to the obscene, gross statements you've made, and your keeping it 100% personal and not about topic (other than to misrepresent with wild accusations), I don't want to be associated with you as an individual in any way. My post history shows clearly that you wildly misunderstood my posts, and I would have kindly tried to clear it up (which I did before if you remember) but truly I find your personal remarks so out of line that I will not bother to try and correct you this time.

Sorry to interrupt any sado-pleasure trip before reaching a little high point there, but you see, my pain is not about 3rd grade insults - I already made that clear - it's about these types of remarks and attacks making the whole 2A/OC community look bad. Sicko remarks and attacks don't help the cause. We have a national struggle going on over this issue and some of us are trying to promote unity and strength among the 2A side. Our side has the high moral and legal ground, and we should be a beacon to the rest of the nation and the world.

I am going to keep doing what I've done - to promote 2A and to try and discourage attacks within. You don't cause me emotional pain, but I admit to disgust at what you've said. Your attempts to silence, shame, or otherwise discourage me are simply doomed. Sorry.

To anyone else who might read this thread, I want to make it clear that I do not have anything to do with, and do not endorse, any type of discrimination against women and the disabled, obscene comments, sadism, and other viewpoints expressed during personal attacks against me. I detest and condemn such viewpoints.

9026543 said:

What is the reason for the Speaker of House and Senate waiting until May 22 to sign HB436 and send it to the Gov? Didn't it pass on May 8?

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That would be part of the secret squirrel group agenda. We asked him for lots of extra time for folks to whine about everything and fuss.

Seriously though, if a man tells you it is going to move forward, you either insult by questioning him or you wait. We have opted to wait instead of questioning him, just a bit of common courtesy for lending us his ear as often as he has this session.

HVW....you crack me up!

Too bad you can't be taken serious.

LMTD said:

That would be part of the secret squirrel group agenda. We asked him for lots of extra time for folks to whine about everything and fuss.

Seriously though, if a man tells you it is going to move forward, you either insult by questioning him or you wait. We have opted to wait instead of questioning him, just a bit of common courtesy for lending us his ear as often as he has this session.

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It really doesn't matter, the Speaker and President cannot not sign the bill, nor can they not give it to the Governor. Giving it to the Governor anytime between now and the middle of July will not change the effective data. There's no need to push the issue, because there is simply nothing to gain from doing it.

kcgunfan said:

It really doesn't matter, the Speaker and President cannot not sign the bill, nor can they not give it to the Governor. Giving it to the Governor anytime between now and the middle of July will not change the effective data. There's no need to push the issue, because there is simply nothing to gain from doing it.

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Oh, and I have a little theory about the strategy here. I'll share it after it has been signed.

Today is the last day of the legislative session. What is going to happen is the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate wil lboth sign all of th ereamining bills on May 22nd and send them to the governor to sign or veto. If he signs them (without an emergency clause) the become effective Aug. 28th. If he does nothing, they becoem law Aug. 28th. If there is a "veto", the veto session is Sept. 11th. If any bill with a veto gets a veto over ride by the House and Senate, it becomes law immediately.

We here in the STL area are debating where to meet up at midnight Aug. 27 so at midnight when the calendar turns to the 28th we can take off our cover shoirts in a muinicipality they prohibits OC one minute and has to allow it the next. Maryland Heights, Steak-N-Shake might be the place? We used to meet-up there until they prohibited OC.
Plenty of time to decide, very centrally located for STL and ST. Charles Co.
Where ver we plan to do this we wil linform the City and the Police and we wil linvite the media. First we have to see what happens with the honorable Governor Nixon by the deadline of
*****July 14th.****

It is "MY" thought and hope he wil make no action on HB 436 and it will indeed become law Aug. 28th.
My close friends (and deep throat) in Jefferson City thinks he will veto HB436. I hope he is wrong, we have a party to plan!

Hang folks, nothing really top do but watch and wait. Right now HJR14 has issues in the House (5/17/2013) but hopefully it will pass. This is a very important resolution for future 2A action in the years to come.