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Thread: OC Declined in Milwaukee Cheesecake factory

  1. #1
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    OC Declined in Milwaukee Cheesecake factory

    Boosting the signal (reposting)
    I spoke to the manager, he doesn't care at all what anyone else has to say.

    ********************
    So about 5 min ago, I get kicked out of the Cheesecake Factory at Mayfair.... for everyone's safety?

    Mgr: Sir for the safety of everyone else, can you remove your gun and put it away. I respect guns, I have mine at home.

    Me: With all due respect, no one is in danger and from what I understand The Cheesecake Factory's policy is to respect the laws of the a state similar to Starbucks and many other businesses I choose to support.

    Mgr: Let me check with my superior.
    Comes back after a few min, "the signs at Mayfair prohibit weapons and my manager says she understands Act 35" so sorry, but you have to leave.

    There was more discussion about Act 35, the incorrect thinking that parking lot signs legally carry weight, CF choosing NOT to post their restaurant, and I've open carried there at least a dozen times in the past! I respectfully gathered their names and left...

    Damn shame. Delicious food...
    ***************************

  2. #2
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    So that manager was under the mistaken impression that 'his' restaurant was 'protected' by the parking lot signs? Or was it by the door signs for entry into the mall? (They're not part of the mall; it's a separate building.)

    "can you remove your gun and put it away"
    Yes. But it's safest when it's not being handled.

    Mayfair Mall Milwaukee Location
    The Cheesecake Factory
    414.257.2300
    Mgr. Kipp VanDorf (nice guy but ignorant)
    Superior Linzey Escobar (who really kicked Nazir out)
    District Mgr Tom Davis

    If you want to contact the manager, or corporate, here's 943.13 (trespass).
    Clearly says that they can't post parking lots.
    And they can either put a sign on their own door or tell people they're not welcome... but they're only losing the customers who OC. Everyone who's cc is still welcome.
    Here's CF's online contact form. (Scroll down the "where were you" to Wauwatosa.)


    943.13 (1m) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:

    (b) Enters or remains on any land of another after having been notified by the owner or occupant not to enter or remain on the premises. This paragraph does not apply to a licensee or out-of-state licensee if the owner's or occupant's intent is to prevent the licensee or out-of-state licensee from carrying a firearm on the owner's or occupant's land.

    (c) (2) While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any part of a nonresidential building, grounds of a nonresidential building, or land that the actor does not own or occupy after the owner ... or the occupant ... has notified the actor not to enter or remain ... while carrying a firearm ...
    This subdivision does not apply ... if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of a building, grounds, or land used as a parking facility.

    ETA: it just occurred to me that that last exception means that carry in the parking lot is legal. Doesn't have to be in the car.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 05-08-2013 at 01:27 AM.

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    Relevant reply from elsewhere. He called and spoke to the local manager.
    Not only will they not discuss this specific incident, they won't even tell me what their weapons policy in general is. The referred me to Cheesecake Factory's Risk Services Manager, Rod Stevens, 818-871-3256. Sic 'em, folks!

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curben Justic View Post
    Relevant reply from elsewhere. He called and spoke to the local manager.
    Not only will they not discuss this specific incident, they won't even tell me what their weapons policy in general is. The referred me to Cheesecake Factory's Risk Services Manager, Rod Stevens, 818-871-3256. Sic 'em, folks!
    If they have no policy or one they won't discuss then perhaps we should have an open carry get together at this establishment? Say ten to twenty open carry folks ambling in at the same time?
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

    —John F. Kennedy

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    sounds like you guys are chasing your own tail

    they dont want to expound upon the manager's decision

    move on .. carry again and you may get the same result

    i dont think it would be trespassing ~ policies change all the time

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    I had a similar issue when I first OCed at the Ellsworth grocery store. The manager came out and said that I couldn't bring my gun inside bec some customers complained. I asked him if the store had a policy and if it did why wasn't it posted on the doors according to law. He said they did and he will post. He lied bec I called the owner and he said they didn't. I asked the owner what was he going to do about the situation? He said that he would loose business if he didn't allow people with guns in his store. He asked me to CC inside. At that when it was my first day OCing, I complied, but now I regret. So We shop in another town where I can OC in their store.

    They still have not posted, so I assume that if I enter the Ellsworth store OCing, all the manager has to say is that "you can't come in like that." Would that not carry the 'force' of law or do they have to post? I heard that if managers or employees don't want you in OCing they can ask you to leave according to law.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Has anyone heard an update from CF, either corporate or local?
    I emailed the night I saw this had happened, & haven't gotten a response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider
    I asked him if the store had a policy and if it did why wasn't it posted on the doors according to law.
    I think you've learned since then that you never suggest posting signs.
    Without signs, people can still go shop, they'll have to tell each person individually that they're not welcome, it'll be more uncomfortable for them and more obvious that they're losing business.
    Plus people who cc could still go in. Sometimes I point that out to people objecting to OC - "so you're upset about this one, that you can see, but not about the ones that you can't see?". Usually at least makes them pause.

    all the manager has to say is that "you can't come in like that." Would that not carry the 'force' of law or do they have to post? I heard that if managers or employees don't want you in OCing they can ask you to leave according to law.
    Yep. Verbal notice is legally binding.
    As for the employees being able to make company policy & lose the company its immunity from liability, I'd ask to talk with the owner or manger.
    Often, it's some hourly person expressing an opinion, or thinking that since the company doesn't allow them to carry at work their rules apply to customers.
    Once the problem is brought to the attention of management, it's often not a problem any more... esp. when they understand that by telling people to leave they've lost their immunity from liability.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Has anyone heard an update from CF, either corporate or local?
    I emailed the night I saw this had happened, & haven't gotten a response.


    I think you've learned since then that you never suggest posting signs.
    Without signs, people can still go shop, they'll have to tell each person individually that they're not welcome, it'll be more uncomfortable for them and more obvious that they're losing business.
    Plus people who cc could still go in. Sometimes I point that out to people objecting to OC - "so you're upset about this one, that you can see, but not about the ones that you can't see?". Usually at least makes them pause.


    Yep. Verbal notice is legally binding.
    As for the employees being able to make company policy & lose the company its immunity from liability, I'd ask to talk with the owner or manger.
    Often, it's some hourly person expressing an opinion, or thinking that since the company doesn't allow them to carry at work their rules apply to customers.
    Once the problem is brought to the attention of management, it's often not a problem any more... esp. when they understand that by telling people to leave they've lost their immunity from liability.
    Yep MKE, I am going to call the owner and tell him that he is loosing my business of $600/mo. They know me for years and my daughter works in that store. I feel bad I compromised and as of yet no signs. They are the only store in town not allowing me to oc.

  9. #9
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    Sounds like you just need to carry there again next time you go. Don't overwhelm a corporate office with emails over a single VERBAL incident.

  10. #10
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithman
    just need to carry there again next time you go
    Nazir can't carry there now, since a manager has told him he's not allowed to have his defensive tool.
    Anyone else can, until told to leave. Hopefully the next people will have video, to document that the company has given up its immunity from liability.

    Don't overwhelm a corporate office with emails over a single VERBAL incident.
    If a large number of citizens jump on a small incident, there won't be any more or larger incidents.
    And often, corporate isn't aware that their hourly employee is making executive-level decisions. That usually doesn't go over well, esp. when the company has less liability if the employee doesn't express their opinion.

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