Aarius
New member
There are many things about Open Carry - Open Visibility - visually communicated intent to all but the uninformed few that I grew very comfortable with many years ago. Not the least of which is the tremendous responsibility that choosing to OC "OPENLY" demands of the person so carrying. Constantly looking for ways to "raise the bar" that I would make part of my very way of thinking has been a standard I have required of myself for forty-one years.
Perhaps one of those "realities of life" is the fact that anyone under any circumstance especially one who has come to rely upon a lifetime of experience whatever that might be is that a "wake up call" has never been more than the right moment in the wrong place, or vice versa, away.
Not too long ago I had occasion to go with my son, his wife and my grandson to Valley Fair Mall in West Valley City, Utah. The occasion was something my son had planned otherwise I never have a reason to go there.
I have been aware that business owners have a right to post their place of business prohibiting firearms from being carried inside. I know of a couple businesses near where I live who have posted such prohibition signs and of whom I am quite pleased to never go there and encourage my friends and acquaintances to boycott the business for such narrow minded thinking. All the while respecting the business owner for expressing concerns by acting upon them and exercising their rights.
I have every reason to believe there are some, hopefully just a very small handful, of current permit holders who for a whole bunch of reasons shouldn't have a permit. I'm thinking, for example, of someone who obtains a permit with a very narrow attitude of self protection alone and has never considered that some unforeseen and indeed unwanted circumstance might call upon them to act to defend innocent fellow citizens. Even worse, they have the permit, that attitude of what I will call selfishness, and likely because of that attitude (my opinion only) has not pursued one minutes professional training that would include all the whens, wheres, whys, what ifs, when nevers, how tos, how not to (poor grammar is intentional hopefully to paint a picture at the expense of freaking out my spell-checker). I regret to include in this business owners not unreasonable concern about the extremely small percentage of LEO's who somehow skate the requisite and recurring psych evaluations and who should not have a gun and a badge.
It was night time as we entered the mall and mostly because I don't frequent the place slowing down to scan the perhaps twenty-five foot wide entrance for that maybe 8 inch diameter circular white sign with a red outside circle, a straight red line across the center that super imposes a black image of a rather generic looking handgun. The International visual sign recognized in all the free world as "the item represented hereon is not allowed herein" was nowhere to be seen. There was no wording spelled out and "prominently displayed" so as to catch the attention of one reasonably expected to observe the message intended something like; "NO FIREARMS, GUNS NOT ALLOWED, CONCEALED FIREARMS PROHIBITED" displayed anywhere. With complete confidence I joined my family and proceeded to the planned event.
Valley Fair Mall has some 120 businesses inside and presents a long walk if your son had no idea where to park. Well into the procession I noticed two young men dressed in uniforms so as to communicate they were some type of security personnel but lacking the absolute essentials one would see on a law enforcement officer. I noticed that they had zeroed in on me even from 50 or so feet away. Being "hyper vigilant" is part of the every minute lifestyle of someone who accepts and understands the awesome responsibility of having prominently displayed upon their right hip, in my case, a 9 mm GLOCK semi-automatic pistol well secured in a tactical level II holster and a twin pouch snap locked magazine utility all on a tactical TDU CQC belt. Not many will understand any of the weapon description, what it was in, what was with it, or how it was worn. No one with clear vision could mistake the fact that this guy is very likely not a convicted felon intent upon wreaking havoc with a deadly weapon in a public place. Hold that - I failed to include the "none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE" very small minority or just plain stupid people.
Not deterred one bit by the approaching "security professionals", who my son also had pegged and he is an active LEO visiting here from Northern Nevada and he was carrying concealed, we just continued our hiking trip. The two young men, I honestly thought to be maybe 15 or so, spoke politely to me and informed me that the mall has a no firearms policy and invited me, in so many words, to turn around and leave. My son, an LEO now of about 7 years experience, was about to go off on them. I suggested we walk back to the entrance and asked them to point out their signage they had just stated was posted.
On the right wall at 90 degrees to the entrance and well away from the regular flow of pedestrian traffic was a white sign maybe 1 foot and 3/4 in total size with black block letters maybe 3/4 inch that extended to about a hundred words or more. All the mall's policies about no skateboarding, no smoking, no spitting, no running, and somewhere in the middle a mention about no weapons. An entire court room prepared argument against such exculpatory material, that was in no way "prominently displayed", and that I wouldn't like it anyway was all choked back as I was busy trying to corral an out of state/jurisdiction but quite capable LEO from taking a couple of maybe LEO wannabe's to the wood shed and the result was that the planned event was that quickly moved to an open carry friendly business.
I have stewed over that but decided not to return and visit the property manager to provide them with a set of free International red and white signs with printouts of applicable Utah Criminal Code because retirement can mean not having to cure all the ills of society and just forget about it. MAYBE - until last Saturday I decided to go to the Jordan Commons Megaplex theater to see a movie as I have done several times in the past 5 years, always well armed and open carry and I was stopped in my tracks at the entrance by a large and from one side of the entrance to the other at least a 1 foot brown painted stripe with large black inset letters clearly stating "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED". I did not see the movie I went there for and will not see any other movie at THE JORDAN COMMONS LARRY H. MILLER MEGAPLEX - ever and this is but an opening salvo determined to be seen and heard of by theater management and for that matter now all businesses that I might or probably would never otherwise patronize.
Does there exist a listing of businesses in Utah that have exercised their right to "refuse service to anyone" as I will now describe it, except some criminal element who could now feel much more at ease about hitting the business and shooting anyone in their way because no cops are in sight and they know there will be no legally armed citizens inside the business?
If no such list is available for whatever reason I'm here to announce that they didn't see me coming when I'm petitioning in person whatever agency is responsible to provide one and with no small voice either.
To reduce my ever increasing agitation to maybe 10,000 words or less here may I invite you to view what I believe is the best explanation ever heard for those who legally open carry - especially from a non LEO not to mention baby carrying Mom from Alabama.
[video=youtube;LxXRJILDwEY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxXRJILDwEY[/video]
Well displayed on the wall near my front door
Perhaps one of those "realities of life" is the fact that anyone under any circumstance especially one who has come to rely upon a lifetime of experience whatever that might be is that a "wake up call" has never been more than the right moment in the wrong place, or vice versa, away.
Not too long ago I had occasion to go with my son, his wife and my grandson to Valley Fair Mall in West Valley City, Utah. The occasion was something my son had planned otherwise I never have a reason to go there.
I have been aware that business owners have a right to post their place of business prohibiting firearms from being carried inside. I know of a couple businesses near where I live who have posted such prohibition signs and of whom I am quite pleased to never go there and encourage my friends and acquaintances to boycott the business for such narrow minded thinking. All the while respecting the business owner for expressing concerns by acting upon them and exercising their rights.
I have every reason to believe there are some, hopefully just a very small handful, of current permit holders who for a whole bunch of reasons shouldn't have a permit. I'm thinking, for example, of someone who obtains a permit with a very narrow attitude of self protection alone and has never considered that some unforeseen and indeed unwanted circumstance might call upon them to act to defend innocent fellow citizens. Even worse, they have the permit, that attitude of what I will call selfishness, and likely because of that attitude (my opinion only) has not pursued one minutes professional training that would include all the whens, wheres, whys, what ifs, when nevers, how tos, how not to (poor grammar is intentional hopefully to paint a picture at the expense of freaking out my spell-checker). I regret to include in this business owners not unreasonable concern about the extremely small percentage of LEO's who somehow skate the requisite and recurring psych evaluations and who should not have a gun and a badge.
It was night time as we entered the mall and mostly because I don't frequent the place slowing down to scan the perhaps twenty-five foot wide entrance for that maybe 8 inch diameter circular white sign with a red outside circle, a straight red line across the center that super imposes a black image of a rather generic looking handgun. The International visual sign recognized in all the free world as "the item represented hereon is not allowed herein" was nowhere to be seen. There was no wording spelled out and "prominently displayed" so as to catch the attention of one reasonably expected to observe the message intended something like; "NO FIREARMS, GUNS NOT ALLOWED, CONCEALED FIREARMS PROHIBITED" displayed anywhere. With complete confidence I joined my family and proceeded to the planned event.
Valley Fair Mall has some 120 businesses inside and presents a long walk if your son had no idea where to park. Well into the procession I noticed two young men dressed in uniforms so as to communicate they were some type of security personnel but lacking the absolute essentials one would see on a law enforcement officer. I noticed that they had zeroed in on me even from 50 or so feet away. Being "hyper vigilant" is part of the every minute lifestyle of someone who accepts and understands the awesome responsibility of having prominently displayed upon their right hip, in my case, a 9 mm GLOCK semi-automatic pistol well secured in a tactical level II holster and a twin pouch snap locked magazine utility all on a tactical TDU CQC belt. Not many will understand any of the weapon description, what it was in, what was with it, or how it was worn. No one with clear vision could mistake the fact that this guy is very likely not a convicted felon intent upon wreaking havoc with a deadly weapon in a public place. Hold that - I failed to include the "none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE" very small minority or just plain stupid people.
Not deterred one bit by the approaching "security professionals", who my son also had pegged and he is an active LEO visiting here from Northern Nevada and he was carrying concealed, we just continued our hiking trip. The two young men, I honestly thought to be maybe 15 or so, spoke politely to me and informed me that the mall has a no firearms policy and invited me, in so many words, to turn around and leave. My son, an LEO now of about 7 years experience, was about to go off on them. I suggested we walk back to the entrance and asked them to point out their signage they had just stated was posted.
On the right wall at 90 degrees to the entrance and well away from the regular flow of pedestrian traffic was a white sign maybe 1 foot and 3/4 in total size with black block letters maybe 3/4 inch that extended to about a hundred words or more. All the mall's policies about no skateboarding, no smoking, no spitting, no running, and somewhere in the middle a mention about no weapons. An entire court room prepared argument against such exculpatory material, that was in no way "prominently displayed", and that I wouldn't like it anyway was all choked back as I was busy trying to corral an out of state/jurisdiction but quite capable LEO from taking a couple of maybe LEO wannabe's to the wood shed and the result was that the planned event was that quickly moved to an open carry friendly business.
I have stewed over that but decided not to return and visit the property manager to provide them with a set of free International red and white signs with printouts of applicable Utah Criminal Code because retirement can mean not having to cure all the ills of society and just forget about it. MAYBE - until last Saturday I decided to go to the Jordan Commons Megaplex theater to see a movie as I have done several times in the past 5 years, always well armed and open carry and I was stopped in my tracks at the entrance by a large and from one side of the entrance to the other at least a 1 foot brown painted stripe with large black inset letters clearly stating "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED". I did not see the movie I went there for and will not see any other movie at THE JORDAN COMMONS LARRY H. MILLER MEGAPLEX - ever and this is but an opening salvo determined to be seen and heard of by theater management and for that matter now all businesses that I might or probably would never otherwise patronize.
Does there exist a listing of businesses in Utah that have exercised their right to "refuse service to anyone" as I will now describe it, except some criminal element who could now feel much more at ease about hitting the business and shooting anyone in their way because no cops are in sight and they know there will be no legally armed citizens inside the business?
If no such list is available for whatever reason I'm here to announce that they didn't see me coming when I'm petitioning in person whatever agency is responsible to provide one and with no small voice either.
To reduce my ever increasing agitation to maybe 10,000 words or less here may I invite you to view what I believe is the best explanation ever heard for those who legally open carry - especially from a non LEO not to mention baby carrying Mom from Alabama.
[video=youtube;LxXRJILDwEY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxXRJILDwEY[/video]
Well displayed on the wall near my front door
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