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Thread: Open Carry protest in Temple Tx in support of active duty soldier wrongfully arrested

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    Open Carry protest in Temple Tx in support of active duty soldier wrongfully arrested

    Support your 2nd amendment rights! . OPEN CARRY PROTEST JUNE 1 (Temple)
    Come And Take It Temple -Open Carry March

    We will be gathering for a legal armed open carry march in response to the Temple Police Department violating the Second and Fourth Amendment rights of Active Duty MSGT Christopher J. Grisham. Please join us all. We will be exercising our rights as free men and women. Be part of the solution.

    "While out hiking with my son through backcountry roads to help him earn his Eagle Scout rank, I was illegally arrested and disarmed without cause. I was thrown in jail and my lawfully owned weapons were confiscated without receipt or notice," -Grisham

    That's right! Get your guns and get to Temple, TX. They forgot we have rights and we must remind them. If we don't stand up for fellow Texans today then we will stand alone when it happens to us in our hometown. Just a reminder on legal open carry in Texas: It must be a long gun and can be strapped or hung on your person. You can not hold it. We will be taking up donations for the 2nd Amendment Legal Defense Fund for Christopher J. Grisham. Anyone that wants to help contact Murdoch at murdoch at dontcomply.com

    We have a few open spots for speakers. If interested contact Murdoch

    Facebook Event Page:
    https://www.facebook.com/events/146140288898702/

    Download FLYER:
    http://www.dontcomply.com/wp-content...Page-Flyer.jpg

    Download Half Page Flyer:
    http://www.dontcomply.com/wp-content...Page-Flyer.jpg

    Download Press Release:
    http://www.dontcomply.com/wp-content...nd-Take-It.doc

    When: June 1st
    Where: Temple, TX
    Venue: Community Market 212 S. Main St.
    Time: 10:00am-4:00pm
    MOΛΩN ΛABE

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Moved this to the Texas sub-forum as it is state specific.

    While I recall reading about this, others may not be familiar with what transpired.
    Please provide a cite -media link.

    BTW - your "Press Release" does not work for me.

    Also IMO you will get more support suggesting empty holster or CC with signs as promoting long gun carry is a a violation of Forum Rules + we obey all laws and look to change negative/restrictive laws through the courts and/or legislature.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-08-2013 at 02:36 PM. Reason: linked rules
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Oh my, the guys on GlockTalk's Carry Issues forum are gonna have an apoplectic fit over this.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Oh my, the guys on GlockTalk's Carry Issues forum are gonna have an apoplectic fit over this.
    A lot of links to follow, but all very interesting - some divergent or reserved opinions.

    My 1st reaction after the initial shock was that the Sgt. might have done better to not shout and yell.

    Ima gonna take a step back at this point and see how things develope and play out - wait for more info. In the meanwhile, he seems well supported.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Oh my, the guys on GlockTalk's Carry Issues forum are gonna have an apoplectic fit over this.
    Yeah, Terry doesn't matter if it's an "investigative stop". Riight.
    Last edited by BB62; 05-08-2013 at 03:49 PM.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Yeah, Terry doesn't matter if it's an "investigative stop". Riight.
    Well according to that one guy, Terry only applies if it's the officer makes a stop on his own initiative. If its in response to an upset citizen, then reasonable articulable suspicion, probable cause, and all that other Supreme Court silliness just goes right out the window.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Well according to that one guy, Terry only applies if it's the officer makes a stop on his own initiative. If its in response to an upset citizen, then reasonable articulable suspicion, probable cause, and all that other Supreme Court silliness just goes right out the window.
    Well at least in a position to be shoveled up with the rest of those road apples.........gotta watch where you step these days doncha know
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Well according to that one guy, Terry only applies if it's the officer makes a stop on his own initiative. If its in response to an upset citizen, then reasonable articulable suspicion, probable cause, and all that other Supreme Court silliness just goes right out the window.
    The items I have read indicate that the call the police received was of a man carrying a rifle which is not against the law. In other words, a report of a man legally walking down the street. Are the police going to stop everyone who is obeying the law?

    What is more troubling is the pattern of police and prosecution conduct involved in a number of such prosecutions.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Warrior View Post
    The items I have read indicate that the call the police received was of a man carrying a rifle which is not against the law. In other words, a report of a man legally walking down the street. Are the police going to stop everyone who is obeying the law?

    What is more troubling is the pattern of police and prosecution conduct involved in a number of such prosecutions.
    Very similar to the Master Sergeant's encounter, I was detained by the police for "suspicious activity" in a public park.
    According to the phone call I was ".... just walking" but had a firearm on my side and ".... there's a playground right over there."
    As none of that was against the law, it's possible a reason for the detention had to be fabricated. I wound up being arrested for trespassing in a public park, while it was open, while walking on the pedestrian pathway for exercise, and while observing all state, county and municipal rules.

    The arrest was nolle prossed and the officers have had a federal lawsuit filed against them.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 05-08-2013 at 09:33 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    ...long gun carry is a a violation of Forum Rules...
    Again, could we have clarification on the exception, please? I don't think it was forthcoming last time I asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Rules
    (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry. Exception: This rule does NOT apply to discussions about long gun carry in jurisdictions such as California which ban handgun carry and thus require long gun carry as a matter of public policy.
    Is this not a situation such as California?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grapeshot

    ...long gun carry is a a violation of Forum Rules...
    Originally Posted by Forum Rules

    (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry. Exception: This rule does NOT apply to discussions about long gun carry in jurisdictions such as California which ban handgun carry and thus require long gun carry as a matter of public policy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Again, could we have clarification on the exception, please? I don't think it was forthcoming last time I asked.

    Is this not a situation such as California?
    Not a situation such as California at all - Texas does not "ban handgun carry". The site owners have been very clear about that distinction.

    This is not intended to stymie discussion on this thread, but to make the point that long gun carry is neither the issue nor the focus of this event. Rather the potential violation of law and the rights/privileges thereby afforded the M/Sgt. are what is germane.

    It does not make any difference what he was carrying or how - only that it was legal.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-09-2013 at 03:31 AM. Reason: Clarify
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Not a situation such as California at all - Texas does not "ban handgun carry".
    Yes, actually, they do.

    Texas Penal Code 46.02 starts with, "Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun . . . "

    The law goes on to list some exceptions, and some defenses, but the basic law in Texas is that carrying handguns is banned unless specifically allowed by law.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    I went to the Texas Penal Code and had to look it up for myself. Yep, Texas does indeed criminalize the carrying of handguns and then makes exceptions to the law prohibiting doing such.

    That would likely mean that carrying a handgun in Texas is an affirmative defense and that you could easily be stopped should it be reasonably suspected you are carrying and it would be up to you to prove your innocence.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Not a situation such as California at all - Texas does not "ban handgun carry". The site owners have been very clear about that distinction...
    Please cite where the site owner has been very clear about this distinction, especially if we note the first part of the rule.
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Rules
    (14)...This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life...
    You do know that California has a permit system in place also, right? They don't ban handgun carry much more than Texas does. And, in fact, they don't ban open carry as much as Texas does.

    You're the mod. As far as I'm concerned, you can say, "Because I said so," and I'll accept that. But if you are going to give me a "reason," I'm going to make sure it makes sense.
    Last edited by MAC702; 05-09-2013 at 11:47 AM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Please cite where the site owner has been very clear about this distinction, especially if we note the first part of the rule.

    You do know that California has a permit system in place also, right? They don't ban handgun carry much more than Texas does. And, in fact, they don't ban open carry as much as Texas does.

    You're the mod. As far as I'm concerned, you can say, "Because I said so," and I'll accept that. But if you are going to give me a "reason," I'm going to make sure it makes sense.
    I do not say "Because I say so" - just not my style, particularly under the terms of my contract at will

    The question or point about "banning" is not limited to OC though. Can you carry a gun where there are other people, can you carry for your own defense outside the house? In Texas, yes. In Ca, Md, no...unless you are elite.

    California has a permit system like Maryland - some call it "may issue" - not for the average Joe though.
    Yep, you can OC still I think in the rural, outback areas of CA, but don't you dare do it where people live in populated areas. I think the original LG carry in CA exception was designed as a response to that isolated issue.

    Not speaking for John or Mike - My understanding of the rule and conversations is that the only exception that would be recognized at this time for long gun OC is California. If Mike and John change that, then I will apply the rule accordingly - I don't see that change happening though.

    So there you have it - because they (Mike and John) say so, but with explanation.......which IMO is more than adequate.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-09-2013 at 01:04 PM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    Grapeshot's suggestion about carrying a concealed handgun, or open carried empty holster presents the conundrum embodied within Texas firearm carry laws.

    If I have an AR-15 on a sling over my shoulder= LEGAL , and also openly carry a (CHL) holstered handgun= ILLEGAL - is the application of laws in TEXAS not utterly INSANE ?

    The 46.035(A) " intentionally fails to conceal " offense is based upon the presumption that DISPLAY of a handgun in public by a CHL licensee might be perceived as "alarming" by another person. The specific language is not there - but the intent of 46.035(a) is to prevent just such an occurrence.

    How is an openly carried holstered handgun going to set off "alarm" bells in the minds of reasonable persons who probably have their eyes glued to the LEGALLY shouldered AR-15 ? Ridiculous.

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    I hope someone filed and received an approved assembly permit.
    Otherwise ?
    In other news , today was 700's last stand.
    Hopefully in 2015 it will pass.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    ...My understanding of the rule and conversations is that the only exception that would be recognized at this time for long gun OC is California...
    Then why does the rule not say "California" instead of "such as California?"
    Last edited by MAC702; 05-09-2013 at 10:44 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Then why does the rule not say "California" instead of "such as California?"
    Hey, I didn't write it. There are other states with limitations, but there is only one California.

    I'll make it a point of asking though.





    Such as, such as, mumble, mumble...
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    ...I'll make it a point of asking though. ...
    I would appreciate that, thank you.

    Because we are either open carry for HANDGUNS or we are not. If California is an exception, I don't know why Texas, Florida, and 18-20-year olds (in many other states that require permits for open carry like Oklahoma) are not exceptions.

    I'm fine either way; I just want the rule to be consistent.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Again, could we have clarification on the exception, please? I don't think it was forthcoming last time I asked.


    Is this not a situation such as California?
    If long gun open carry is legal in Texas then the rule does not apply. I just changed the rule to remove the reference to California since they have now banned the open carry of long guns as well but we DO allow for the discussion of long gun open carry in those jurisdictions where handgun open carry is not allowed and long gun carry IS allowed.


    John

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    I have noticed an excitement when an active duty serviceman cannot get a permit, able to purchase etc..

    Given that the current military is being trained to suppress us lowly citizens, I don't get overexcited like most folks do about servicemen's 2nd amendment issues.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    ...Given that the current military is being trained to suppress us lowly citizens, I don't get overexcited like most folks do about servicemen's 2nd amendment issues.
    It isn't the serviceman who is wanting this training.

    While they do not deserve special treatment for 2A issues, it is helpful to us to use them as examples of people whose rights are being infringed to show to idiocy of possession laws nationwide.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Re: Open Carry protest

    I enjoy reading this as an Illinois resident where all carry is illegal.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

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    Update

    In an update to this thread...Since he was a permit holding concealed carrier they have taken his handgun and permit as well. At the time of arrest the Sgt. was charged with resisting arrest. ( The original arrest that he was resisting is non existent.) The charge has since been lowered to "Interfering with a police officer" or police business. From what I understand CJ has filed a FOIA request for all documents as well as audio tapes of caller and all dash cam video. So far he has only received a copy of his arrest report. There is a hearing on the 15th of May concerning non compliance with FOIA requests.
    Last edited by LastOutlaw; 05-14-2013 at 07:54 PM.

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