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Thread: Open Carry at a Marijuana Nullification Stance

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Open Carry at a Marijuana Nullification Stance

    Found out the last minute about a Nullification rally for the outrageous prosecution of something deemed legal in our state. OC'd there interviewed some folks swapped rights battles and gave them kudos for fighting for liberty.

    I politely declined to engage in the partaking of THC. The Deputies came out and told them they couldn't block the crosswalk, and paid no heed to the openly smoked joints by many of the members.....



    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    Isn't it beautiful when all rights are considered valid? Good choice on the remaining sober while carrying, BTW. Nothing wrong with it at home, like a drink, but in public and carrying I believe we should be above reproach and part of such is remaining in control of our faculties.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compmanio365 View Post
    Isn't it beautiful when all rights are considered valid?
    It sure is.

    Good choice on the remaining sober while carrying, BTW. Nothing wrong with it at home, like a drink, but in public and carrying I believe we should be above reproach and part of such is remaining in control of our faculties.
    Hard to argue with remaining beyond reproach. And in the current political climate I agree with your assessment.

    However. I have argued many a time that a person who elects to enjoy an alcoholic beverage (or, hypothetically, beverages) in moderation is not only well within his rights, but isn't going to seriously offset the good of a full day of OCing, much less noticeably harm the public's view towards the RKBA – especially if he does so in the right context.

    I sincerely hope for a day in the near future where I feel comfortable making an equivalent argument about marijuana. (I mean, purely objectively, alcohol is more intoxicating. It is irrational for me to have this double standard.)
    Last edited by marshaul; 05-08-2013 at 07:51 PM.

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    Far out !

  5. #5
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compmanio365 View Post
    Isn't it beautiful when all rights are considered valid? Good choice on the remaining sober while carrying, BTW. Nothing wrong with it at home, like a drink, but in public and carrying I believe we should be above reproach and part of such is remaining in control of our faculties.
    +1 Like drinking though I feel having a beer in public does no disservice, come up to Bellingham sometime brother, we OC'ers are known to knock one back with a meal even in public....nobody cares, and the anti's they hate us with or without the beer!

    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    It sure is.



    Hard to argue with remaining beyond reproach. And in the current political climate I agree with your assessment.

    However. I have argued many a time that a person who elects to enjoy an alcoholic beverage (or, hypothetically, beverages) in moderation is not only well within his rights, but isn't going to seriously offset the good of a full day of OCing, much less noticeably harm the public's view towards the RKBA especially if he does so in the right context.

    I sincerely hope for a day in the near future where I feel comfortable making an equivalent argument about marijuana. (I mean, purely objectively, alcohol is more intoxicating. It is irrational for me to have this double standard.)
    +1 I think with many people that day is here.

    I was offered gleefully many times to partake, ( I don't smoke, although I find nothing wrong with it) They had no problem with me the gun guy in their midst, matter of fact I will say many of them were stoked to see that I supported their actions and was the reason why they offered so freely and contrary to some haters misinformation, not one of those smokers or users pressured me or were rude or exhibited any other maladies many would stereotype them of having. I have a few videos, I did some impromptu interviewing with 4 people one guy who came all the way from Jersey for this, and three of the people involved in this lawsuit.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Read some article about the owning/carrying firearms a while ago and in it, it said if I can't trust you with a few drinks, I can't trust you at all with a firearm. I have to agree. It's all mental.

    and the anti's they hate us with or without the beer!

    Agreed also.


    Been harassed by the police? Yelled at by the anti-gun neighbors? Mother doesn't approve?

    Then this is the place for you! Click here to get back at them!

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    Good job.

    Any link to the story behind the prosecution?

  8. #8
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Good job.

    Any link to the story behind the prosecution?
    From my interviews what I was told , was officers entrapped the owner and employees of a legal medical marijuana facility, they used fake ID's, Faked illness and got Doctors to write them prescriptions. Broke a lot of laws for law enforcers....

    I'm looking for another source link now. http://www.cascadiaweekly.com/entert..._dispensaries/
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    +1 Like drinking though I feel having a beer in public does no disservice, come up to Bellingham sometime brother, we OC'ers are known to knock one back with a meal even in public....nobody cares, and the anti's they hate us with or without the beer!
    True enough.....I have always felt uncomfortable OCing and either partaking or already being even under the influence of anything. I don't think one loses the right to self defense just because they choose to have a beer or a few puffs off a joint, but if you found yourself in the unlikely situation of having to defend yourself, I think it would make your case harder if you were inebriated at the time you shot someone. I guess I can see both sides of the situation, but I'd be more than happy to grab a beer if I find myself up in your neck of the woods SVG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    From my interviews what I was told , was officers entrapped the owner and employees of a legal medical marijuana facility, they used fake ID's, Faked illness and got Doctors to write them prescriptions. Broke a lot of laws for law enforcers....

    I'm looking for another source link now. http://www.cascadiaweekly.com/entert..._dispensaries/
    THAT'S ENTRAPMENT?! If they GOT the legal recommendation from a doctor and went through the process of getting the paper legally (though undercover, which confuses me) then how exactly is that entrapment? Legally speaking, the Collective should not have been held responsible for any legal proceedings. I'm wondering if THIS is the same tactic that was used for the collective here in Kelso?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    From my interviews what I was told , was officers entrapped the owner and employees of a legal medical marijuana facility, they used fake ID's, Faked illness and got Doctors to write them prescriptions. Broke a lot of laws for law enforcers....

    I'm looking for another source link now. http://www.cascadiaweekly.com/entert..._dispensaries/
    What the cops did i obtaining the prescriptions is probably illegal, and my guess is that whatever doctor wrote them was coerced into doing so. Both should face sanctions for those actions.

    However, I did not read anything that even suggested entrapment, which is encouraging a person to commit an illegal act that they would not otherwise have contemplated commiting. Holding too much pot and having too many customers on the books was done without any involvement by the cops. If I read it properly, each shop can have a total of 4.5 pounds, which is to meet the needs of a maximum of 10 customers. All were over the weight limit by a significant margin, and one shop is reported to have hads 300 times the max allowable customers.

    Claiming "entrapment" is purely a red herring.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I wish the marijuana community were as legally organized as the RKBA community is.

    The actions of the authorities are truly reprehensible, if one bothers to read between the lines.

    Of course the can just brush it off with their b.s., "These arrests are not about medical marijuana, these arrest are about closing down illegal criminal drug enterprises!"

    But anybody can see what's really going on.

    The City Attorney’s office reviewed its policy on these businesses in late 2011, and decided to no longer issue business licenses for dispensaries and co-ops of this kind.
    Police say they obtained evidence that the collectives exceeded the 10 members per dispensary allowed by law.
    And also

    Not only did the City of Bellingham issue their cease-and-desist letters on a Friday at 4pm, she said, preventing timely legal response, but they also timed their raid just in advance of the one day of the month the civil court is closed, preventing her firm from filing a restraining order.
    Clearly the local authorities are attempting an end-run around the state law which provides for medical marijuana access to those with a doctor's recommendation. How many patients do you think could be "legally" provided for under these rules? A few tens?

    Incidentally, there is no such thing as a marijuana "prescription". The author of that article is clearly only rudimentarily familiar with that about which he writes. Washington, like California and every other state with functional medical marijuana laws, operates on "recommendations". The Feds deny any medical use for marijuana, and they also regulate what substances may/must be prescribed and who may prescribe them. Therefore, no medical marijuana prescriptions. The difference, as is frequent in legal contexts, matters. Otherwise Virginia would have been the one of the first states with medical marijuana, way back in 1979.

    18.2-251.1. Possession or distribution of marijuana for medical purposes permitted.
    Last edited by marshaul; 05-09-2013 at 03:34 PM.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    What the cops did i obtaining the prescriptions is probably illegal, and my guess is that whatever doctor wrote them was coerced into doing so. Both should face sanctions for those actions.

    However, I did not read anything that even suggested entrapment, which is encouraging a person to commit an illegal act that they would not otherwise have contemplated commiting. Holding too much pot and having too many customers on the books was done without any involvement by the cops. If I read it properly, each shop can have a total of 4.5 pounds, which is to meet the needs of a maximum of 10 customers. All were over the weight limit by a significant margin, and one shop is reported to have hads 300 times the max allowable customers.

    Claiming "entrapment" is purely a red herring.

    stay safe.
    I'd say its illegal too.

    I have a habit of referring all "undercover work" as entrapment. There are many people who would refuse to do certain business with a cop, when a cop misrepresents himself as someone else I feel it's entrapment. Yet entrapment was the words used by the people I talked to.

    Seems their attorney has a different take on the amounts, it still wouldn't have been an issue if the officers didn't engage in the other conduct like getting fake prescriptions, how would they have known????

    Things that make me go hmmmm.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  14. #14
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    But anybody can see what's really going on.
    Yep pure vindictive show of force.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I wish the marijuana community were as legally organized as the RKBA community is.
    And I wish the RKBA community had the balls the marijuana community has.

    Like how most of the pot people possess and smoke without permits, etc.

    Sure, most of the open carry community is already doing that, as in most states there's no permit required to posses or openly carry some sort of firearm. That's not a good comparison, though. Pot is far more regulated or outright criminalized in most states. That's not getting into the fedgov's hatred for the stuff.

    What I'm trying to convey is that I wish more people would disobey the masters and the, so called, laws they create. Like carrying without a permit if one is required, pot or firearm.

    Disobey, civilly, as the pot smokers do. They have balls.

    I thought this was a decent documentary along the lines of this:
    http://www.gunsandweed.com/

  16. #16
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carsontech View Post
    And I wish the RKBA community had the balls the marijuana community has.

    Like how most of the pot people possess and smoke without permits, etc.

    Sure, most of the open carry community is already doing that, as in most states there's no permit required to posses or openly carry some sort of firearm. That's not a good comparison, though. Pot is far more regulated or outright criminalized in most states. That's not getting into the fedgov's hatred for the stuff.

    What I'm trying to convey is that I wish more people would disobey the masters and the, so called, laws they create. Like carrying without a permit if one is required, pot or firearm.

    Disobey, civilly, as the pot smokers do. They have balls.

    I thought this was a decent documentary along the lines of this:
    http://www.gunsandweed.com/
    That's one reason I show up to these events to unify those of us fighting for rights. I didn't get one negative response form the pot smoking crowd. They were happy to have another rights activist in their midst. We can learn from each other, unite and as Citizens tag line says fight for each others rights because then we win them for ourselves.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    That's one reason I show up to these events to unify those of us fighting for rights. I didn't get one negative response form the pot smoking crowd. They were happy to have another rights activist in their midst. We can learn from each other, unite and as Citizens tag line says fight for each others rights because then we win them for ourselves.
    SVG,

    You stand with the freedom fighters at all times. You're consistent with your philosophy, morals, and ideals. The wife and I wish we could have beers with many on this forum, but you and another few are at the top of the list. Plus you're a handsome guy. haha.

    Same to you marshaul. Although, I'm not sure if you're handsome or not. We would love to get together before we move out west.

    Can't leave out skidmark! He's famous, and handsome to boot.

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carsontech View Post
    SVG,

    You stand with the freedom fighters at all times. You're consistent with your philosophy, morals, and ideals. The wife and I wish we could have beers with many on this forum, but you and another few are at the top of the list. Plus you're a handsome guy. haha.

    Same to you marshaul. Although, I'm not sure if you're handsome or not. We would love to get together before we move out west.

    Can't leave out skidmark! He's famous, and handsome to boot.
    Thank you! I likewise find you and your wife consistant fighters for freedom! Would love to have a beer, what part of the west you moving too?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    That's one reason I show up to these events to unify those of us fighting for rights. I didn't get one negative response form the pot smoking crowd. They were happy to have another rights activist in their midst. We can learn from each other, unite and as Citizens tag line says fight for each others rights because then we win them for ourselves.
    Yup. That's why I ended up such close friends with so many marijuana users when I lived in California (as I've mentioned here numerous times). Frankly, they were like an oasis of love of liberty in a desert of statism. Most of the ones I knew were far too jaded from the failures of Prohibition Parts I and II to do anything but oppose Prohibition Part III.

    Which makes sense, because I learned to take their side by following the same journey in the other direction.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Thank you! I likewise find you and your wife consistant fighters for freedom! Would love to have a beer, what part of the west you moving too?
    Indeed. Beer is always good.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carsontech View Post
    And I wish the RKBA community had the balls the marijuana community has.

    Like how most of the pot people possess and smoke without permits, etc.

    Sure, most of the open carry community is already doing that, as in most states there's no permit required to posses or openly carry some sort of firearm. That's not a good comparison, though. Pot is far more regulated or outright criminalized in most states. That's not getting into the fedgov's hatred for the stuff.

    What I'm trying to convey is that I wish more people would disobey the masters and the, so called, laws they create. Like carrying without a permit if one is required, pot or firearm.

    Disobey, civilly, as the pot smokers do. They have balls.

    I thought this was a decent documentary along the lines of this:
    http://www.gunsandweed.com/
    You certainly have a point. But many gun owners don't give a damn about the law. Those of us who choose to be its most public advocates tend to be fairly... noncontroversial. The marijuana community has its own equivalent public-face squeaky-clean types, too.

  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Indeed. Beer is always good.
    Yep, and fortunately here in the northwest we have whole Isles dedicated to local good beers!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    Nice work SVG. Individual rights should trump all. Especially if it is not hurting anyone else.

  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsx1138 View Post
    Nice work SVG. Individual rights should trump all. Especially if it is not hurting anyone else.
    Thank you.

    I think there is no way someone can whine about government trying to take their guns, and then support other forms of prohibition.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carsontech View Post
    Disobey, civilly, as the pot smokers do......................
    I agree that civil disobediance has its good points. I do not agree that it is a good tool for the Open Carrier.

    Civil disobedience is the active, professed refusal to obey certain laws, demands, and commands of a government, or of an occupying international power. Civil disobedience is commonly, though not always,[1][2] defined as being nonviolent resistance. It is one form of civil resistance. In one view (in India, known as ahimsa or satyagraha) it could be said that it is compassion in the form of respectful disagreement.

    CD is "refusal to obey the law". Do that actively, with a weapon and everything changes. Stay within the Law, work for change within the Law. As Skidmark has said...Be Safe!



    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Indeed. Beer is always good.
    This is Truth!! Beer is good food.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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