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Creation, true, false, or unsure?

eye95

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Asking where God came from implies that He did not exist, then he did. That implies time, but again, time is a construct of the universe and is not applicable to God. He just was.

Not saying that you must accept what I am saying. I am just illustrating the internal consistency of what I believe, not unlike string theorists do because their theories are entirely unprovable. They check them for internal consistency.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Whatcom County
Asking where God came from implies that He did not exist, then he did. That implies time, but again, time is a construct of the universe and is not applicable to God. He just was.

Not saying that you must accept what I am saying. I am just illustrating the internal consistency of what I believe, not unlike string theorists do because their theories are entirely unprovable. They check them for internal consistency.

Yes and the Big Bangers claim the singularity "just was".....personally until I have physical proof of either sides views I happily and satisfactorily remain unaffiliated.
 

Mantioch

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Apr 10, 2013
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Louisville KY
Well... that's um... 50/50 right? :)

Well, I don't think so. I mean I guess you can boil it down to that somehow - I'd have to think about the math. But I think that would be like saying your chances of winning the lottery are 50/50 as in you either will or you won't. I guess that's why I keep buying tickets :D
 
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sudden valley gunner

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You will get proof of neither.

So, maybe try logic instead.


Now now play nice.

Wasn't it you that mentioned earlier faith plays a large part of your belief whether it is evolution or creation?

I have no faith in either concept because I logically conclude neither gives me satisfactory answers to a very basic question about the fundamental basis of either side the "he just was" argument for any gods or the it "just was" idea for the idea we all come from a singularity.

I see a great service being done for humanity by the striving for these answers from secular science and personal religious reflection.
 

ADobbs1989

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No, the biblical creation story is false. Evolution, which is a proven fact, is completely opposite to the creation myth. If you would like to argue that a god(s) created evolution then feel free.
 

georg jetson

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SNIP
Of course you are free to look at it anyway you want. My question goes to the basis of both ideologies being discussed here, Big Bang or God, where did they get there start, if it takes intelligence to create than who created God? Or if things sprung from a singularity without no God where did this singularity come from, I have heard compelling argument about matter being created from nothing, but this leaves out the fact that it still takes energy to make nothing into something...where'd that energy come from...


SNIP

I did a poor job of explaining. Let me try this...

God = intelligence. So intelligence/God always existed. As Eyes points, time is part of creation so to say something had a beginning means that it is subject to the laws of time and space and therefore is by definition NOT everything.

Saying the singularity sprang into existence makes no sense because that implies time already exists. You then have to ask what created time. My answer is that intelligence/God created time.

To say that everything came from the singularity includes the very laws the singularity would need to use to spring into existence. Intelligence from nothing is truly the impossibility. If nothing exists to "tell" everything how it's supposed to behave then how does everything know how to behave?
 

georg jetson

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No, the biblical creation story is false. Evolution, which is a proven fact, is completely opposite to the creation myth. If you would like to argue that a god(s) created evolution then feel free.

Oh, Ok. Thread over.

Thanks. You saved us a lot of time.

BTW - You must be a man of great age to have witnessed man evolve from monkeys. Do you have any video... time lapsed of course.
 
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bbMurphy

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Mar 1, 2013
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Hardy, VA
Created in 7 days? Well, actually 6 days.

Yes, but what is a day? It's an empirical number based upon the time it takes for the Earth to make 1 rotation or approximately 24 hours. Other planets in our own solar system rotate at faster and slower speeds so their 'days' are correspondingly shorter or longer than a day on Earth. Years follow the same empirical pattern. A day to God is based upon his own interpretation of time of which we have no idea or provable concept of. When he dictated the story of creation to man, man's simple mind could not possible grasp the concept of empirical time so the story of creation was interpreted to mean a 'day' on Earth. No proof, no evidence of any kind. A day to God could be a billion or more years to us. I believe in the Almighty as that is the definition of faith, believing in something without any proof. I also believe that evolution is a construct brought about by God to enable gradual change. Was Adam created as a fully formed man? I accept that Adam was the first 'man' that was self realized and aware of himself and his surroundings through the course of evolution.

My own 2 cents.
 

sudden valley gunner

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On a side not from being on the sides I made a interesting observation, my local tribal creation tradition has us being created, from the dirt of the ground, the bible has Adam being created from dirt, evolution says we spontaneously come from these elements.......it seems to me they all touch on a little truth at least.


We are all basically dirt......:p
 
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ADobbs1989

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
465
Location
Alabama
I did a poor job of explaining. Let me try this...

God = intelligence. So intelligence/God always existed. As Eyes points, time is part of creation so to say something had a beginning means that it is subject to the laws of time and space and therefore is by definition NOT everything.

Saying the singularity sprang into existence makes no sense because that implies time already exists. You then have to ask what created time. My answer is that intelligence/God created time.

To say that everything came from the singularity includes the very laws the singularity would need to use to spring into existence. Intelligence from nothing is truly the impossibility. If nothing exists to "tell" everything how it's supposed to behave then how does everything know how to behave?

Who says anything HAS to behave in a certain way? Actually the direction we are going at the moment would suggest multiple universes where the laws of physics are completely different than our own. We only perceive the universe the way it is as being how it's supposed to be because it's all we know.
 

Suckerspawn

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Joined
Jan 21, 2013
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Location
Dayton, Piqua, Ohio
Yes, but what is a day? It's an empirical number based upon the time it takes for the Earth to make 1 rotation or approximately 24 hours. Other planets in our own solar system rotate at faster and slower speeds so their 'days' are correspondingly shorter or longer than a day on Earth. Years follow the same empirical pattern. A day to God is based upon his own interpretation of time of which we have no idea or provable concept of. When he dictated the story of creation to man, man's simple mind could not possible grasp the concept of empirical time so the story of creation was interpreted to mean a 'day' on Earth. No proof, no evidence of any kind. A day to God could be a billion or more years to us. I believe in the Almighty as that is the definition of faith, believing in something without any proof. I also believe that evolution is a construct brought about by God to enable gradual change. Was Adam created as a fully formed man? I accept that Adam was the first 'man' that was self realized and aware of himself and his surroundings through the course of evolution.

My own 2 cents.

What was a day to Moses in Exodus 20:8-11 ?
 

ADobbs1989

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Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
465
Location
Alabama
Oh, Ok. Thread over.

Thanks. You saved us a lot of time.

BTW - You must be a man of great age to have witnessed man evolve from monkeys. Do you have any video... time lapsed of course.

Man didn't evolve from monkeys. It's not hard to see why those who don't know anything about evolution wouldn't recognize the evidence for it.
 

georg jetson

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Sep 14, 2009
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Slidell, Louisiana
Man didn't evolve from monkeys. It's not hard to see why those who don't know anything about evolution wouldn't recognize the evidence for it.

Oh. Well show us the video. Being the man with the facts, I'm sure you were a witness right? Hey if you don't have the video then at least tell us first hand what you witnessed man evolve from.
 
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