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Theater pulls publicity stunt, send fake active shooter to iron man premier.

zack991

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
1,535
Location
Ohio, USA
Sounds like a good way to end up with a chest full of 45ACP or another flavor of ammo. I carry every place I can and this guy would be hurting if he ran into a off duty cop or a person with their own firearm.

I know what he wrote, he ignored the context of the statement being trapped in a seeming copycat of a mass shooting with extremely similar details.

in that context nothing illegal was advocated.

maybe some wording choice was poor... But i'm well aware it's illegal to employ a deadly weapon against someone who is not posing a deadly threat to myself or others.



Yet, if a cop or regular Joe pulled their gun and ordered the man to the ground. If that actor made any slight movement in a threatening manner he would be dead. People are already on high alert and they are not going to take chances, it takes very little to spook a person. This all could have ended badly.
 
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E6chevron

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
528
Location
Milwaukee Wisconsin
Utter imbiciles!

"During the opening weekend of the latest 'Iron Man' movie, a man walked into the theater in full tactical gear and carrying a fake gun...
it was all part of a publicity stunt for the movie opening. The man in tactical gear was an actor carrying a fake gun...
Capital 8 Theaters manager Bob Wilkins told ABC 17 News this was planned months in advance and only a few people were upset, but hundreds were entertained..."

http://www.abc17news.com/news/movie...on/-/18421100/20089958/-/66o97fz/-/index.html

In Wisconsin, and other states as well, people appearing less threatening than this, have been shot and killed by police. After review, the shootings were considered to be justified... "a good shooting"

This actor, was VERY lucky.
 

HP995

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
730
Location
MO, USA
Poor planning, but not as radical as some of the news reports make out, since they left out important details on purpose to help scare people, and we shouldn't help them do that, should we? Let's include a few more relevant details.

The gun had a toy designating orange tip (probably airsoft, perhaps a partially clear gun, see photo and quotes) and I gather that the man was not a loner showing up suddenly to terrify people in front of the big screen as a shock stunt, he was part of a cosplay group doing their thing in a nonthreatening, probably yawn-inducing, way in the lobby. The theater owner said this group had showed up for many openings, and indeed I can see that the group has web sites that show they do many types of venues in many types of costume.

Really this was a fairly routine type of promotion in previous years. It became an incident only because of people being jittery this year from media hype, and planners failing to consider how the actor might look out of context on the way to his group. He should have been with other members of the group and some group signage when entering, or had some of his gear out of sight on the way in and geared up in-context.

Here's a photo that might help to understand what people really saw:

http://i.imgur.com/gAcRt9l.jpg

And more details:

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2013/05/iron_man_goodrich_capital_theaters_911_call.php

In context (in the lobby, group of actors dressed up in movie theme) it's very clear what's going on and you'd have to be a real nut to get excited about it.

Out of context (such as parking lot, one actor entering with gear, maybe poor lighting, bad eyesight or what have you) someone who missed the big orange tip could obviously get the wrong idea and call 911. The veteran interviewed had PTSD, and was in the parking lot, but it was someone else who actually called 911 and I'm not sure where they were when they saw the man and why they didn't see or understand the blazing orange tip and possibly transparent and cheap toy nature of the weapon.

Cosplay groups and venues are going to have to rethink how things are done and avoid any chance of misunderstanding, now that people are jumpy about shootings from the current gun control media blitz. Indeed they are lucky that no one got hurt.

But if everyone and his dog is now justified in taking down orange-tipped airsoft "active shooters", then I guess we'll start seeing reports of "justifiable" shootings in the parking lots of department stores adjacent to airsoft and laser tag venues. Clueless shopper sees a gangly preteen exit Mom's van with a toy gun, fails to notice AirSoft World next door, and tells 911 that a gunman is heading toward Macy's. That's the whole point of the orange tips being mandated.

This mishap was poor judgment in today's environment and it could have been easily avoided, but it's also the result of a society being conditioned by an activist media, and you are going to see what's considered "good judgment" get smaller and smaller over time, until there may not be much elbow room. Remember, kids are also getting in trouble for drawing pictures or writing essays about guns in school.

If God forbid we have a wacko shooting someday at an outdoor mall venue or a restaurant or outdoors store from someone in normal clothes and unthreatening who enters the area wearing a holstered sidearm, and a prolonged media hype about it, then suddenly people will consider that venue and that appearance dangerous and irresponsible. If a shooter wears a purple baseball cap then that will become off limits too. People doing dumb things or making mistakes make it easy for the media, but the media will create anti-gun news either way.

Hope this event doesn't hurt the current 2A/OC efforts!

When I was a kid, preteen or very early teen, I was playing with a cap gun in my living room when a police officer snuck in the back screen door with his gun drawn and pointed upwards. That was before any toys had orange tips, so the gun may have looked semi realistic. I was terrified to see an armed officer enter without warning. The police officer was at the wrong house due to a mistake in routing the officer to a completely unrelated call at another location. "Doh! Wrong house, sorry." Luckily the officer wasn't afraid of his shadow. I certainly wasn't doing anything wrong, but it was a somewhat dangerous situation and I'm very glad it happened back then instead of now. I was tall enough to possibly be seen as a threat, and the officer was responding to a call about some type of intruder, probably armed, so he was expecting to see someone with a gun upon entering the house and I could see him size me up. Rational heads are needed when evaluating any situation, and details are important.
 

Festus_Hagen

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
490
Location
Jefferson City, Mo., ,
The gun had a toy designating orange tip (probably airsoft, perhaps a partially clear gun, see photo and quotes) and I gather that the man was not a loner showing up suddenly to terrify people in front of the big screen as a shock stunt, he was part of a cosplay group doing their thing in a nonthreatening, probably yawn-inducing, way in the lobby.

It was dark. I don't think it having an orange tip is a "good reason" NOT to get a little worked up. First of all it's dark outside. Second, who's to say they had that orange tip up in the air for all to see? What if you saw a guy walking around a car with an AR-15 pointed towards the ground so you couldn't see it ?I would probably draw my weapon and get the guy in my sights . What he did next would make the decision of what I did next.

But if everyone and his dog is now justified in taking down orange-tipped airsoft "active shooters", then I guess we'll start seeing reports of "justifiable" shootings in the parking lots of department stores adjacent to airsoft and laser tag venues.
C'mon....now you are grasping at straws.

If bad guys start painting their guns with orange paint on the tips, we shouldn't shoot them . Afterall, they ARE airsoft, right? :uhoh:
 

LMTD

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
1,919
Location
, ,
There is no justification for it that holds merit.

The manager should be charged criminally just as someone would be for pranking by yelling "fire" and inciting a riot.

The manager is a dumbass, it is just that simple.
 

DamonK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
585
Location
Ft. Lewis, WA
Re: idiot theater stunt - by the theater!

Poor planning, but not as radical as some of the news reports make out, since they left out important details on purpose to help scare people, and we shouldn't help them do that, should we? Let's include a few more relevant details.

The gun had a toy designating orange tip (probably airsoft, perhaps a partially clear gun, see photo and quotes) and I gather that the man was not a loner showing up suddenly to terrify people in front of the big screen as a shock stunt, he was part of a cosplay group doing their thing in a nonthreatening, probably yawn-inducing, way in the lobby. The theater owner said this group had showed up for many openings, and indeed I can see that the group has web sites that show they do many types of venues in many types of costume.

Really this was a fairly routine type of promotion in previous years. It became an incident only because of people being jittery this year from media hype, and planners failing to consider how the actor might look out of context on the way to his group. He should have been with other members of the group and some group signage when entering, or had some of his gear out of sight on the way in and geared up in-context.

Here's a photo that might help to understand what people really saw:

http://i.imgur.com/gAcRt9l.jpg

And more details:

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2013/05/iron_man_goodrich_capital_theaters_911_call.php

In context (in the lobby, group of actors dressed up in movie theme) it's very clear what's going on and you'd have to be a real nut to get excited about it.

Out of context (such as parking lot, one actor entering with gear, maybe poor lighting, bad eyesight or what have you) someone who missed the big orange tip could obviously get the wrong idea and call 911. The veteran interviewed had PTSD, and was in the parking lot, but it was someone else who actually called 911 and I'm not sure where they were when they saw the man and why they didn't see or understand the blazing orange tip and possibly transparent and cheap toy nature of the weapon.

Cosplay groups and venues are going to have to rethink how things are done and avoid any chance of misunderstanding, now that people are jumpy about shootings from the current gun control media blitz. Indeed they are lucky that no one got hurt.

But if everyone and his dog is now justified in taking down orange-tipped airsoft "active shooters", then I guess we'll start seeing reports of "justifiable" shootings in the parking lots of department stores adjacent to airsoft and laser tag venues. Clueless shopper sees a gangly preteen exit Mom's van with a toy gun, fails to notice AirSoft World next door, and tells 911 that a gunman is heading toward Macy's. That's the whole point of the orange tips being mandated.

This mishap was poor judgment in today's environment and it could have been easily avoided, but it's also the result of a society being conditioned by an activist media, and you are going to see what's considered "good judgment" get smaller and smaller over time, until there may not be much elbow room. Remember, kids are also getting in trouble for drawing pictures or writing essays about guns in school.

If God forbid we have a wacko shooting someday at an outdoor mall venue or a restaurant or outdoors store from someone in normal clothes and unthreatening who enters the area wearing a holstered sidearm, and a prolonged media hype about it, then suddenly people will consider that venue and that appearance dangerous and irresponsible. If a shooter wears a purple baseball cap then that will become off limits too. People doing dumb things or making mistakes make it easy for the media, but the media will create anti-gun news either way.

Hope this event doesn't hurt the current 2A/OC efforts!

When I was a kid, preteen or very early teen, I was playing with a cap gun in my living room when a police officer snuck in the back screen door with his gun drawn and pointed upwards. That was before any toys had orange tips, so the gun may have looked semi realistic. I was terrified to see an armed officer enter without warning. The police officer was at the wrong house due to a mistake in routing the officer to a completely unrelated call at another location. "Doh! Wrong house, sorry." Luckily the officer wasn't afraid of his shadow. I certainly wasn't doing anything wrong, but it was a somewhat dangerous situation and I'm very glad it happened back then instead of now. I was tall enough to possibly be seen as a threat, and the officer was responding to a call about some type of intruder, probably armed, so he was expecting to see someone with a gun upon entering the house and I could see him size me up. Rational heads are needed when evaluating any situation, and details are important.

Put into context like you have here, I have no problem with it. Had it been just a lone guy and not obviously people dressed up like characters in the movies then that would be another story. Thanks for clearing it up so thoroughly.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
 

HP995

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
730
Location
MO, USA
What if you saw a guy walking around a car with an AR-15 pointed towards the ground so you couldn't see it ?I would probably draw my weapon and get the guy in my sights . What he did next would make the decision of what I did next.

That's a tough question, because if there's a guy holding an AR-15 in such a way that I "couldn't see it" then I'm not really aware he has it, am I?

But I can say this: if I saw you recklessly draw a real gun on a guy or gal with an obvious toy gun, I just might have you in my sights, finger off the trigger initially, and advise you to stand down! I wouldn't idly witness a hysteria-driven murder or tragic accident without trying to prevent it. :(

Ditto if I saw you draw on someone peacefully OC'ing a safely slung genuine modern long gun where it is legal to do so and with no other indicators of ill intent, depending of course on the overall situation and your finger.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
(snip)

If bad guys start painting their guns with orange paint on the tips, we shouldn't shoot them . Afterall, they ARE airsoft, right? :uhoh:

Wellllllll that is the whole idea of those stupid orange tips, so cops will not shoot a child with a toy gun, not like it was a problem 40 years back with no orange tip. It does create a interesting problem.
 

Boba Fett

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
206
Location
Fair Grove, Missouri
What if you saw a guy walking around a car with an AR-15 pointed towards the ground so you couldn't see it ?I would probably draw my weapon and get the guy in my sights .

If you see me open carry an M1 Carbine, please don't pull your gun on me Festus. Thanks. ;)

As a "pro" airsoft player for 5 years, I've been in many a McDonald's and Sam's and Walmart parking lots while wearing a plate carrier or MICH helmet. Most people don't seem to give a second thought to us (however no guns are ever in plain sight so maybe that's why). Also, at every annual community Easter Egg Hunt my church produces, I have our church airsoft team wear their vests and orange T-shirts when helping with security. Again, no one freaks out.

Clayton and Austin Cart 1.jpg

God forbid if suddenly there's a ban on wearing MOLLE webbing in public...shoot I wear a MOLLE multicam backpack to college every day! Condor tactical ball caps and BDU pants in solid colors too! :uhoh:

No one's shot me or anyone else I've seen doing the same things yet. This being said, common sense is also a major "roleplayer!"
 

Festus_Hagen

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
490
Location
Jefferson City, Mo., ,
That's a tough question, because if there's a guy holding an AR-15 in such a way that I "couldn't see it" then I'm not really aware he has it, am I?

But I can say this: if I saw you recklessly draw a real gun on a guy or gal with an obvious toy gun, I just might have you in my sights, finger off the trigger initially, and advise you to stand down! I
I'm talking about the orange tip.....
 

randian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
380
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Got to love WA, they can send their 18-20 year olds off to the war(s) fully armed, but once at home they can not protect themselves until they are 21 with a pistol? Nice -:confused:
As a bonus, WA just canceled CCW reciprocity with FL because FL gives CCWs to 18-20 year old veterans.

That said, the people involved in this stunt apparently have no concept that non-LEO can carry.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
In the hypothetical event such actor entered the theater carrying a rifle in hand A/O/J would all be present. Forest through the trees citizen, I won't even address the rest of the gibberish you wrote

Hahahhahahahahahahaha!!!!

Now he has to go and change the circumstances. Now the actor has the rifle in hand. That's not what he said earlier. He wrote, "...looks remotely threatening or holding a gun...". (emphasis mine).

I'm not the one writing gibberish.

Hahhahahahahahahaaaa!!!



And, nowhere in the story text or video does it say anything about the actor carrying either of the guns in his hand.

Bwhahahahahahahahahaha!!
 
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March Hare

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
351
Location
Arridzona - Flatlander
Had he walked into the theater with what "appeared" to be a real gun, and what "any" other person would have reasonably believed to be a real gun and pointed it at me or another patron, then yes he would have been shot.

Walking into a theater with a rifle (real or fake) and pointing it at patrons is a life-threatening gesture, and I would deal with it immediately. You certainly do NOT want a man with a rifle to get the jump on you while carrying a handgun.

Now, had he walked into the theater with a rifle slung and not pointing it at people or acting in a threatening manner I wouldn't have done anything other than watch him from a distance. I might have walked up to him and asked him a "friendly" question just to see how his demeanor was. Maybe "What kind of rifle are you carrying?" or perhaps "That sure is a nice firearm you have there." Being a peace officer it is MY responsibility to make sure my fellow citizens are safe, but I would NOT call dispatch and request a patrolman, because if he was doing nothing other than openly carrying a long-gun then he is well within his rights to do so here in Kentucky.

I'm with you on this; watch and assess.
I still think it was incredibly stupid for the theater to have done this in the first place.
It could have gone very wrong, very quickly.

-MH
 
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since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
What a wonderfully stupid way to get people killed.

They'd have put the fake shooter and the audience in less jeopardy if they'd run a monster truck through the audience.

Well, perhaps not, but you get the idea - that was reckless endangerment at it's worst, and the courts need to make an example of that theater's management.
 
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