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Thread: Open Carry for persons not residents of Montana?

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    Open Carry for persons not residents of Montana?

    Greetings all. My family are all residents of Kansas. My 19 year old granddaughter will be working at a remote dude ranch in Montana from May to October. Will it be legal for her, as a non-resident, to open carry a revolver for protection against wildlife in remote areas while in Montana?

    Thanks..............

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quartermiler View Post
    Greetings all. My family are all residents of Kansas. Md granddaughter will be working at a remote dude ranch in Montana from May to October. Will it be legal for her, as a non-resident, to open carry a revolver for protection against wildlife in remote areas while in Montana?

    Thanks..............
    Yes.

    She can actually conceal carry without a permit while outside the city/town limit.

    MT does not have any non-resident specific laws.

    Take a glance at the MT law summary thread. http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...te-Law-Summary
    Last edited by slapmonkay; 05-11-2013 at 02:16 PM.
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    As one that lives in a remote area of Montana, please make sure that she is carrying an appropriate caliber (that she can shoot well) and proper bullet(s) for the critters she may encounter. Here where we are we carry both a rifle and a pistol.

    As Slap said, she can OC anywhere, and can CC outside of town if she wants. If you have a permit that MT accepts that can be used for CC in town too.

    I welcome her trip to our great State!! The place is addicting

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaCZ View Post
    As one that lives in a remote area of Montana, please make sure that she is carrying an appropriate caliber (that she can shoot well) and proper bullet(s) for the critters she may encounter. Here where we are we carry both a rifle and a pistol.

    As Slap said, she can OC anywhere, and can CC outside of town if she wants. If you have a permit that MT accepts that can be used for CC in town too.

    I welcome her trip to our great State!! The place is addicting
    I thank you both for setting my mind at ease. She's been patiently waiting to turn 21 to get her CC license. I promised it to her as a gift long ago. Friday I offered her one of my handguns for security while taking isolated walks on days off and evenings in Montana. She jumped on the offer immediately. Her dude ranch job is approximately 24 miles north of Yellowstone and she might come across some dangerous critters. For now, she has a choice between my trusty old 38 revolver and S&W model 29 44mag with 8 3/8 barrel. I think she can handle the S&W. I'd offer my Desert eagle 50 but just don't think she could tolerate the recoil (she's 5'8" tall and only weighs about 130 lbs) or carry all the weight for long hikes. She is experienced with a 38 but I'd like to talk her into something bigger. Whatever she chooses, she'll have a chance to practice shooting with it.

    Montana addicting.......... oh yeah! We've taken several vacations there. Wish we could afford to live there full time.

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    Most common 4 legged critters in that area would be bears (both kinds) and Mountain Lion. She can carry bear spray, but I have gotten mixed reviews from people that have actually had to use it. It just depends on the particular bear. Black Bear are really not an issue, it is the Grizzly. Even then they usually will scatter if they scent you. We have all 3 right here at the house so I have some experience with them and having a family here.

    As always, 2 legged predators are my biggest concern. That .44mag will be a big heavy pistol to carry. If it is big and heavy, she will most likely not carry it when it will be needed. Take it for what electrons are worth right now..

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    Quote Originally Posted by quartermiler View Post
    Will it be legal for her, as a non-resident, to open carry a revolver for protection against wildlife in remote areas while in Montana?
    She'll want to have a canister of bear spray as well.

    Some "experts" believe that "Bear spray... appears to work a lot better than spraying bullets."

    http://missoulian.com/news/state-and...9bb2963f4.html

    I personally agree that bear spray is the better choice, but I'd also have a pistol or assault rifle as a back-up and for certain situations. For example, if camping in a tent and a bear starts to drag it away with you in it, the spray would be almost useless.

    There have been many well documented cases of Grizzly bears not being stopped by multiple rounds, both hi-power and small caliber.

    The books "Alaska Bear Tales" and "More Bear Tales" by author Larry Kaniut is full of such true stories.

    http://www.amazon.com/Alaska-Bear-Ta.../dp/0882402323

    http://www.amazon.com/More-Alaska-Ta...730535-9741712

    Also, she should study a book or two on how to avoid an attack in the first place. Every sporting goods store and book store in Montana carries such a book.

    http://www.amazon.com/Bear-Attacks-C.../dp/158574557X

    AUGustin

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    There's more to fear then Bears in Montana. Lots of places to get lost or injured by just being out in the wilderness. Most of the injuries and deaths I hear about are water related, or mishaps in cutting and gathering firewood.

    I've only seen one bear in my 2 years here in this great state, and I thought he/she was going to have a heart attack it was running so fast away from me. Number one rule, if you are not hunting for bear, stay away from them. It's quid quo pro, don't mess with them and they won't mess with you.

    That being said, I carry a pistol. Spray cans aren't as reliable as pistols. Spray cans have a shelf life, whereas a well cared for pistol will last for generations.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quartermiler View Post
    She's been patiently waiting to turn 21 to get her CC license. I promised it to her as a gift long ago.
    I find the act of begging for and receiving a permission slip a strange "gift", in light of our respected right to carry simply by being alive. That (the respect of that right) is the real gift.

    I also find "I'm gonna OC, but only until I can get my permit" hilarious. I thought that way, until I actually did OC, at which point I rapidly realized how superior OC is in every way, and how pointless CC is by comparison.
    Last edited by marshaul; 05-25-2013 at 01:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I find the act of begging for and receiving a permission slip a strange "gift", in light of our respected right to carry simply by being alive. That (the respect of that right) is the real gift.

    I also find "I'm gonna OC, but only until I can get my permit" hilarious. I thought that way, until I actually did OC, at which point I rapidly realized how superior OC is in every way, and how pointless CC is by comparison.
    OC in Montana is limited by the weather in cities and towns 9 months of the year. That is unless you want to look like a clown with an oversized belt wrapped around 4 to 5 layers of clothing in near zero temperatures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaResident View Post
    OC in Montana is limited by the weather in cities and towns 9 months of the year. That is unless you want to look like a clown with an oversized belt wrapped around 4 to 5 layers of clothing in near zero temperatures.
    True statements. Although there are other options. One is to use a thigh holster instead of a standard belt holster (also called a drop leg holster or a tactical holster). Another is to carry concealed (legally without a permit) in a fanny pack or man's purse/satchel. Blackhawk manufactures a wide variety of such tactical holsters.

    http://www.condoroutdoor.com/ttlhtor...egholster.aspx

    I prefer thigh holsters as I find them much easier and quicker to draw my pistol from. Also you can wear a heavy winter coat or long rain parka without causing the weapon to be "“wholly or partially covered by clothing or wearing apparel.” Also, it is also easier to carry a large backpack with a padded waistbelt as the pistol hangs below the waistbelt out of the way. The drawbacks are twofold: (1) they look more "radical" and might tend to cause more alarm from antigunners than a standard holster, and (2) they might be less confortable on long hikes and tend to swing around, especially with large frame 45s.

    James Wesley Rawles (editor of survivalblog.com) disagrees with me. He wrote, "I personally find the weight of drop-leg holsters uncomfortable for walking long distances. I prefer traditional belt holsters. Not only is the weight distribution more natural--on your waist rather than on your thigh--but they are also quicker to access. But your mileage may vary. If you have the chance, try out this style gear before you buy it."

    AUGustin
    Last edited by Augustin; 05-29-2013 at 04:22 PM. Reason: typo

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    If this wasn't a Montana-specific thread, that post would have elicited many more replies.

    The issue of OC during winter isn't exactly a new one, and Montana isn't exactly the only state where it gets cold.

    Personally, I have a jacket with side zippers for a holster. It has a liner (also with zippers) which is far too warm for most of my winters, even here in the mountains. It would do nicely in Montana. Here, I wear either the outer jacket or the liner by itself 99% of the time.

    Anyone who complains that you "have to CC in winter" isn't dedicated to OC.

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Personally, I have not had any issues open carrying during the winter. Then again, I live on the west side of the state which is a bit more mild than North Eastern side of the state, temperature wise.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    If this wasn't a Montana-specific thread, that post would have elicited many more replies.

    The issue of OC during winter isn't exactly a new one, and Montana isn't exactly the only state where it gets cold.

    Personally, I have a jacket with side zippers for a holster. It has a liner (also with zippers) which is far too warm for most of my winters, even here in the mountains. It would do nicely in Montana. Here, I wear either the outer jacket or the liner by itself 99% of the time.

    Anyone who complains that you "have to CC in winter" isn't dedicated to OC.
    like a police style uniform coat?

    I think those are too specialized an item to own just to OC in cold weather although to each their own.

    last summer I was in Montana, and Montana is not only hot during the summer days, it's freezing cold at night. last summer I decided to do a 10 mile walk around where my family was staying at 9 mile creek. so I loaded up my father's Glock 17 and took that in a SERPA holster... except I got out the gate of rental property and it was very cold... so I went back in and borrowed my brother's smart phone to look at the internet.. and found concealed carry was legal outside city limits.... (which a Missoula county sheriff's deputy told me on the phone when I called before we left... trust but verify) and then threw a coat over the pistol and went on my walk...

    I think it's perfectly ok to switch from OC to CC if the weather conditions make it more practical to CC. I did OC the rest of the time in Montana.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    like a police style uniform coat?

    I think those are too specialized an item to own just to OC in cold weather although to each their own.
    Mine's brown, and they sell it more as a hunter's type jacket that a uniform one (those tend to be black or blue), although the construction is the same. It was a good price, and I just use it as my normal jacket (it's a good jacket, too). Even when I can't be armed (usually going to class), I still use that jacket. So it doesn't really seem that specialized to me.

    I mean, we have to buy holsters, too. Those are specialized.

    *shrug*
    Last edited by marshaul; 06-14-2013 at 07:43 PM.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Mine's brown, and they sell it more as a hunter's type jacket that a uniform one (those tend to be black or blue), although the construction is the same. It was a good price, and I just use it as my normal jacket (it's a good jacket, too). Even when I can't be armed (usually going to class), I still use that jacket. So it doesn't really seem that specialized to me.

    I mean, we have to buy holsters, too. Those are specialized.

    *shrug*
    Depending, I get uncle mikes holsters, have two or three of those for medium size revolvers or pistols, they'll fit just about anything I'm interested in owning.... I have a glock SERPa because I sometimes borrow glocks from family members, but not often.


    How do they work in cold? Do they tend to let the cold into your jacket through the slit? Or not so much?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    can you carry loaded concealed in your car without a permit in cities and towns ?
    I don't think so. You have to carry open in your car in cities or towns... However I think montana defines concealed as covered by "wearing apparel" with some state AG opinion being no permit required for carry in purses or bags. So you could probably stick your gun in the glovebox and it would be ok..... However I would check the law yourself first, I ll review and provide cites when I get up later this morning
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Depending, I get uncle mikes holsters, have two or three of those for medium size revolvers or pistols, they'll fit just about anything I'm interested in owning.... I have a glock SERPa because I sometimes borrow glocks from family members, but not often.


    How do they work in cold? Do they tend to let the cold into your jacket through the slit? Or not so much?
    Works great in the cold.... the slit kind of zips up behind/around the gun. It's not a perfect seal but it's good enough.

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    Re: Open Carry for persons not residents of Montana?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Okay. I think I should have been more clear. I meant can you have a loaded firearm in your vehicle that is concealed but not concealed on your person. Example would be glove box or center console or under the seat or something.
    Concealed and concealed on your person is the same thing in Montana. If your firearm is covered wholly or partially by your clothing then you have a concealed firearm.

    I have yet to figure out how to wear a glove box.

    *please read Montana law for your self. People on the internet, even me, can and do give misleading or false information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Okay. I think I should have been more clear. I meant can you have a loaded firearm in your vehicle that is concealed but not concealed on your person. Example would be glove box or center console or under the seat or something.
    Concealed is based on clothing in MT. You can conceal under the seat, glove box, briefcase, etc without needing a permit.

    http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca/45/8/45-8-315.htm
    Last edited by slapmonkay; 06-17-2013 at 01:57 PM.
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    Regular Member Emmeric's Avatar
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    One person up above even mentioned carrying concealed without a license in a fanny pack or satchel.

    Technically, he is right. The law allows that guns are not considered concealed as a means of violation if carried in luggage.

    The problem here is that luggage is not defined. Does that mean a purse? You could conceivably carry concealed in a bank, in your purse assuming you are a woman or one of those metrosexual "men", without violating the letter of the law. But to my knowledge, this has yet to be defined by adjudication. So, though the law permits carrying concealed in a bank if you carry your gun in a briefcase, that part of the law could still be challenged and charged in court. Your case might be the one that excludes brief cases or fanny packs as luggage!

    Be aware. Be smart.

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    Montana winter

    For my fellow O Cers in Montana;

    A Montana poem
    It's winter in Montana,
    And the gentle breezes blow.
    70 miles an hour,
    At 35 below.

    Oh how I love Montana,
    When the snows up to your butt,
    You take a breath of winter air,
    And your nose gets frozen shut.

    Yes, the weather here is wonderful,
    So I guess I will hang around.
    I could never leave Montana,
    Because I'm frozen to the ground.

    Author unknown
    Last edited by 1911er; 02-05-2014 at 10:41 PM.
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