A message to those who object to the scientific consensus on origins

ADobbs1989 said:

There isn't a single eyewitness account of this (nor any of Jesus' so called miracles) nor did any of the historians of the time record any of the stories of Jesus. Don't confuse the Bible with "well documented eyewitness accounts".

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Romans wrote of Jesus ... he was quite real...

Nightmare said:

Confusing technology with science. NASA is a technology demonstrator and not particularly 'science'. Science, physics, prohibits a reactionless bootstrap drive for the Third Law, Conservation of Momentum, violation. "Book him Draino!"

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Do you think technology comes about through immaculate compilation? Last I checked, technology is a result of applied science.

davidmcbeth said:

Romans wrote of Jesus ... he was quite real...

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Which Romans? The very likely modified, and possibly entirely forged, Josephus passage in Antiquities of the Jews? What's surprising is that someone who's supposed to be getting great followings and performing miracles isn't mentioned by contemporary historians such as Pliny the Elder.

There are many, many creation scientist and probably more science than not that point to creation.
It is just not touted, as is darwinism. It does not fit their agenda. To lessen the importance of
humans to wrest power and rights from you is their goal. Man=dog=ant=tree=dirt

I have suggested before, if you want to know of science that point to creationism,read
"The Case for a Creator" by Lee Stobel. Who, himself was a devout atheist , The book
is filled with the works of many of the worlds foremost scientist, physicist,micro-bioligist,anthropologist,
etc.. that were all atheist,agnostics, indifferent or whatever, who through their studies in their
respective fields, all became creationist.

Atheist have to come to the realization that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian belifies, there is
no such thing as "seperation of church and state"and everyplace that holds Christian values are the better for it.

Believe as you will , but the constant harping on this , on a gun site, is NOT beneficial to the cause of 2A.
It causes dissention amongst our ranks, that should be united in the specific cause of 2A and the general cause
of LIBERTY.

mikeyb said:

One thing that biological science and the Bible agree on is it takes a man and woman to procreate.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_the_sheep

Three mothers, no fathers. Are you sure of your claims?

Hunterdave said:

There are many, many creation scientist and probably more science than not that point to creation.
It is just not touted, as is darwinism. It does not fit their agenda. To lessen the importance of
humans to wrest power and rights from you is their goal. Man=dog=ant=tree=dirt

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Certainly, you have evidence to support such bold claims?

I have suggested before, if you want to know of science that point to creationism,read
"The Case for a Creator" by Lee Stobel. Who, himself was a devout atheist ,

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Not sure how one can be a "devout" atheist, but whatever. The book sucks, and when I heard Lee Strobel speak at Saddleback Church, his arguments were full of logical fallacies and non sequiturs. Not to mention his hyping of bad credentials: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/paul_doland/creator.html

The book
is filled with the works of many of the worlds foremost scientist, physicist,micro-bioligist,anthropologist,
etc.. that were all atheist,agnostics, indifferent or whatever, who through their studies in their
respective fields, all became creationist.

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No, it's filled with the works of philosophy/theology PhDs arguing their case against people who study physics, microbiology, biology, etc and acting as if both are equally qualified and thus have equally meritorious arguments.

Atheist have to come to the relization that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian belifiefs, there is
no such thing as "seperation of church and state"and everyplace that holds Christian values are the better for it.

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Now you have gone off the rails. As your spelling has deteriorated, so have the quality of your arguments. Let's, for a moment, pretend it's a good idea to "hold christian values". Are we stoning people for having sex before marriage, now? What about selling our daughters? Would it be good to force a person to honor their parents when those parents have sold them into prostitution?

There are good values espoused in some parts of the bible, but there are bad values espoused elsewhere. There's nothing special or magical about the bible that makes it some ultimate source on human morality.

Believe as you will , but the constant harping on this , on a gun site, is NOT beneficial to the cause of 2A.
It causes dissention amongst our ranks, that should be united in the specific cause of 2A and the general cause
of LIBERTY.

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Welcome to the lounge. If you don't want "dissention [sic] amongst our ranks", perhaps you shouldn't try to force your religious viewpoints into the laws of civil society.

You need to read the rules again, and as has been posted by Grapeshot the Social lounge is NOT anything goes. If it is maybe some of the Christians on the fora should inundate the fora with prayer threads. I can just imagine the control freaks heads exploding.

WalkingWolf said:

You need to read the rules again, and as has been posted by Grapeshot the Social lounge is NOT anything goes. If it is maybe some of the Christians on the fora should inundate the fora with prayer threads. I can just imagine the control freaks heads exploding.

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Not anything goes, but it's certainly the place for a discussion of this nature. It appears you have some issues with control, yourself. Between your story about being intentionally annoying to people and accusing everyone else of being control freaks, I don't think the problem is with the people you accuse.

Tawnos said:

Not anything goes, but it's certainly the place for a discussion of this nature. It appears you have some issues with control, yourself. Between your story about being intentionally annoying to people and accusing everyone else of being control freaks, I don't think the problem is with the people you accuse.

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I think you miss the point, I have attempted to control no one, and I have not pushed any religion or lack of religion. There is nothing wrong with a individual who posseses SELF control, there is a big problem with those who wish to control others, whether is is religion, gun control, or how they interact in society. Again there is nothing controlling about making fun of or poking control freaks, it is their problem, not anyone else. I just don't put up with their crapolla and I certainly would not hire one. I am sorry that bothers you, no wait no I am not, it is your problem not mine.

mikeyb said:

Theories are just that- theories. Until it is proven by repeatable experiments, theories must withstand the test of science. Right now, the Big Bang is a theory. Once upon a time, the world was flat. Once upon a time, the Sun revolved around the Earth. Do not assume that science is always correct.

And on the other hand, there's a lot of evidence on evolution, even specific examples within the last couple hundred years. During the Industrial Revolution, moths in England turned white to black because the trees in the industrial region turned black. Average heights have increased.

One thing that biological science and the Bible agree on is it takes a man and woman to procreate.

Now, as far as the existence of Jesus is concerned, He did exist. There are historical records that state He did exist, but they do not delve into His works. That said, it is not above the realm of possibility that references to Jesus' life would have been destroyed and/or omitted during this time. Few people read. Jewish power was in control and they did not believe Jesus was the Messiah. Pure Christianity isn't about control, it's about how to live with each other, and basic tenets of civility.

You can't argue faith. It happens. We all practice it every day. We have faith that the idiots on the roadways won't suddenly veer into our lane and crash into us. It just depends on the source of our faith.

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Science fail alert. After the testing, please, do tell what comes after a theory.

Hunterdave said:

There are many, many creation scientist and probably more science than not that point to creation.
It is just not touted, as is darwinism. It does not fit their agenda. To lessen the importance of
humans to wrest power and rights from you is their goal. Man=dog=ant=tree=dirt

I have suggested before, if you want to know of science that point to creationism,read
"The Case for a Creator" by Lee Stobel. Who, himself was a devout atheist , The book
is filled with the works of many of the worlds foremost scientist, physicist,micro-bioligist,anthropologist,
etc.. that were all atheist,agnostics, indifferent or whatever, who through their studies in their
respective fields, all became creationist.

Atheist have to come to the relization that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian belifiefs, there is
no such thing as "seperation of church and state"and everyplace that holds Christian values are the better for it.

Believe as you will , but the constant harping on this , on a gun site, is NOT beneficial to the cause of 2A.
It causes dissention amongst our ranks, that should be united in the specific cause of 2A and the general cause
of LIBERTY.

Click to expand...

Lols. Lee Strobel...one of the many science hacks right up there with Kent Hovind. If you think his book is filled with facts, while scientific studies that conclusively prove evolution to be true are false then I don't think you have any hope. This country was not founded on Christian beliefs, I would love for you to prove me wrong. This country was founded on religious indifference, that anyone is allowed to believe or not to believe anything as they see fit. Many of the founding fathers were deist, not Christian. And in the Treaty of Tripoli it was even stated that "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion". No one other than historically illiterate Christians would accept your claim.

Hunterdave said:

There are many, many creation scientist and probably more science than not that point to creation.
It is just not touted, as is darwinism. It does not fit their agenda. To lessen the importance of
humans to wrest power and rights from you is their goal. Man=dog=ant=tree=dirt

I have suggested before, if you want to know of science that point to creationism,read
"The Case for a Creator" by Lee Stobel. Who, himself was a devout atheist , The book
is filled with the works of many of the worlds foremost scientist, physicist,micro-bioligist,anthropologist,
etc.. that were all atheist,agnostics, indifferent or whatever, who through their studies in their
respective fields, all became creationist.

Atheist have to come to the relization that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian belifiefs, there is
no such thing as "seperation of church and state"and everyplace that holds Christian values are the better for it.

Click to expand...

:lol:

Believe as you will , but the constant harping on this , on a gun site, is NOT beneficial to the cause of 2A.
It causes dissention amongst our ranks, that should be united in the specific cause of 2A and the general cause
of LIBERTY.

Click to expand...

As ADobbs1989 has pointed out, anti-RKBA politicians get elected because the Republican establishment continues to embrace medievalism. If we move closer to gun confiscation because of this, you better believe that I will complain about it.

WalkingWolf said:

You need to read the rules again, and as has been posted by Grapeshot the Social lounge is NOT anything goes. If it is maybe some of the Christians on the fora should inundate the fora with prayer threads. I can just imagine the control freaks heads exploding.

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We're still waiting for you to explain why you give a pass to Christians who want to mandate Christianity for everyone in this country.

This is why certain places on this planet are hellholes, because if you don't believe the exact same thing I do you will have to be killed or enslaved.

If you certian that your view is the correct one, then be happy and don't worry what the other guy thinks.

WalkingWolf said:

I think you miss the point, I have attempted to control no one, and I have not pushed any religion or lack of religion. There is nothing wrong with a individual who posseses SELF control, there is a big problem with those who wish to control others, whether is is religion, gun control, or how they interact in society. Again there is nothing controlling about making fun of or poking control freaks, it is their problem, not anyone else. I just don't put up with their crapolla and I certainly would not hire one. I am sorry that bothers you, no wait no I am not, it is your problem not mine.

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"It appears you have some issues with control, yourself. Between your story about being intentionally annoying to people and accusing everyone else of being control freaks, I don't think the problem is with the people you accuse. "

I stated you have issues with control, that you intentionally annoy people, and accuse others of being control freaks. You didn't argue against those points; instead you chose to state that you don't attempt to control people and then go off on a tangent. Intentionally making annoying noises in order to incite a reaction is an attempt to control someone else. You even say it's fun to "yank their control chain" - indicating you know the reaction you cause, and enjoy using it to control another.

Citation/source: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...se-or-unsure&p=1938291&viewfull=1#post1938291

ADobbs1989 said:

Lols. Lee Strobel...one of the many science hacks right up there with Kent Hovind. If you think his book is filled with facts, while scientific studies that conclusively prove evolution to be true are false then I don't think you have any hope. This country was not founded on Christian beliefs, I would love for you to prove me wrong. This country was founded on religious indifference, that anyone is allowed to believe or not to believe anything as they see fit. Many of the founding fathers were deist, not Christian. And in the Treaty of Tripoli it was even stated that "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion". No one other than historically illiterate Christians would accept your claim.

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First of all if evolution is real then why are there still apes? Im not sure our founding fathers were real.The only evidence I see are written on a piece of paper, no videos or dna. Just not sure at all. Though they do mention several times "our creator" and there are the ten comandments carved into places in the white house but surely they (if they were real) didnt mean a super being. Maybe they were talking about all the comandments from the planet of the apes? This thread is dividing and truely a bash towards Christains. The libtards or progressives would love this.

Tawnos said:

"It appears you have some issues with control, yourself. Between your story about being intentionally annoying to people and accusing everyone else of being control freaks, I don't think the problem is with the people you accuse. "

I stated you have issues with control, that you intentionally annoy people, and accuse others of being control freaks. You didn't argue against those points; instead you chose to state that you don't attempt to control people and then go off on a tangent. Intentionally making annoying noises in order to incite a reaction is an attempt to control someone else. You even say it's fun to "yank their control chain" - indicating you know the reaction you cause, and enjoy using it to control another.

Citation/source: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...se-or-unsure&p=1938291&viewfull=1#post1938291

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Are you capable of understanding the difference between annoying, and controlling. The fact you keep insisting that I submit to your ignorant notions is showing clearly you are a control freak. Only a control freak would be upset over somebody clicking a lighter, it is not my fault you lack self control.

BTW it is only annoying to control freaks as they have no control over another actions, much the same as it bugs you that people pray and YOU cannot do anything to stop it. Your whole problem is that folks have free will and do as they wish, that includes flicking a lighter. If you really think flicking a lighter is controlling you have some serious issues, you really should seek help. Note that the only ones who complained about it are three members, who just happen to be the same members pushing anti religion.

I'll say a prayer for you if that helps...

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

wethepeople said:

First of all if evolution is real then why are there still apes? Im not sure our founding fathers were real.The only evidence I see are written on a piece of paper, no videos or dna. Just not sure at all. Though they do mention several times "our creator" and there are the ten comandments carved into places in the white house but surely they (if they were real) didnt mean a super being. Maybe they were talking about all the comandments from the planet of the apes? This thread is dividing and truely a bash towards Christains. The libtards or progressives would love this.

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Strawman. Humans did not evolve from apes. Apes and Humans both evolved from a common ancestor. Notice that common ancestor is no longer alive. Notice that they refer to a "creator" which backs up the statement that most of them were deists. Which is btw a "god" created the universe but has nothing to do with humans nor care what they are doing. Nothing more than a creator. Many of the founding fathers were Christians, some very devout, some not so devout. I am unaware of these "ten commandment carvings" nor when they were carved or by whom. Nothing points to America being founded on the Christian religion. And everything that is around now that makes it seem that way (Under God in pledge, In God We Trust on money) wasn't always there. The original pledge did not contain the words under god, and I personally prefer the original, which is why I don't recite the bastardized version.

minarchist said:

Many individuals can be placed in prison using various special forms of evidence in lieu of straightforward video footage and eyewitness testimony (e.g., solely with non-visual forms of evidence). There is a plethora of forensic science at society's disposal, relating to DNA, fingerprints, hair, bodily fluids, etc, that can be used to detect who was responsible for a crime. It is inconsistent in the extreme to laud the use of these forensic techniques to convict people when "no was present to observe and no video camera was present to record" the crime in question, while objecting to the scientific consensus on origins because "no was present to observe and no video camera was present to record" the events that the scientific evidence (much of it, ironically, similar to the evidence used to convict people, such as DNA analysis) overwhelmingly supports, which is a favorite tactic of creationists. This is a case of people welcoming the products of science that they like (shiny new gadgets and the ability to detect who perpetrates crimes) while ridiculing science for killing their sacred cows.

So zealots, put your money where your mouth is and demand the release of all felons whose convictions did not entail eyewitness testimony or video evidence.

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You seem to be on a crusade.

You are fighting against an enemy that doesnt exist.

Calm down young man.

Tawnos said:

Now you have gone off the rails. As your spelling has deteriorated, so have the quality of your arguments. Let's, for a moment, pretend it's a good idea to "hold christian values". Are we stoning people for having sex before marriage, now? What about selling our daughters? Would it be good to force a person to honor their parents when those parents have sold them into prostitution?

There are good values espoused in some parts of the bible, but there are bad values espoused elsewhere. There's nothing special or magical about the bible that makes it some ultimate source on human morality.


Welcome to the lounge. If you don't want "dissention [sic] amongst our ranks", perhaps you shouldn't try to force your religious viewpoints into the laws of civil society.

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Well this shows your lack of knowledge of the Bible . What you speak of above did happen in the old testiment (who were not Christians) The advent of Christ Jesus changed all of that (the New Testiment)
Christians did not and do not stone anyone or sell their daughters, when they follow the Word.

Every modern western civilization that has any vestige of individual liberty is born out of Christianity.

I don't force my religious views on anyone. The Lord has given you free will to believe as you will. Why should I interject myself, beyond giving my testiment, into His plan?