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Armed Security Told 'No Guns Allowed' at Greenfield Community Center

MKEgal

MKEgal

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1) What kind of a birthday party are they throwing that they need security?
2) Notice that later in the evening there was a noise complaint & police had to come back?
3) I hope they & their company work for stronger preemption, instead of just added 'security guard' to the LEO exemption

4) At the very bottom of their listing of other 'crimes' is this gem:
Police checking on an occupied vehicle parked near South Crandon Place and West Forest Home Avenue arrested one occupant for carrying a concealed weapon – a BB gun – and possession of drug paraphernalia and another occupant for possession of marijuana
Click to expand...

941.23 Any person, other than one of the following, who carries a concealed and dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

939.22(10) "Dangerous weapon" means any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded; any device designed as a weapon and capable of producing death or great bodily harm... or any other device or instrumentality which, in the manner it is used or intended to be used, is calculated or likely to produce death or great bodily harm.

Except in the rare case of putting an eye out (which isn't the way it's intended to be used) I wouldn't say a BB gun is "calculated or likely to produce death or great bodily harm".
So no matter where the toy was in the car, they can't get a conviction on ccw.
Greenfield PD seems about as educated on ccw as Milwaukee PD.
 
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E

E6chevron

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On that thread in "The Patch" somebody just provided some citations for the "Greenfield Police" commenter to review.

Apparently, the "Greenfield Police" poster is trying to push the idea that since being shot in the eye with a BB gun, could cause great bodily harm, the BB gun is now a dangerous weapon.

Hope you don't conceal a pen, keys or a popsicle stick in Greenfield!
 
Fallschirjmäger

Fallschirjmäger

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E6chevron said:
On that thread in "The Patch" somebody just provided some citations for the "Greenfield Police" commenter to review.

Apparently, the "Greenfield Police" poster is trying to push the idea that since being shot in the eye with a BB gun, could cause great bodily harm, the BB gun is now a dangerous weapon.

Hope you don't conceal a pen, keys or a popsicle stick in Greenfield!
Click to expand...
Add bouquets of roses to that, I distinctly recall an incident of a rose thorn causing a death.
 
MKEgal

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E6chevron said:
somebody just provided some citations for the "Greenfield Police" commenter to review.
Click to expand...
I see some more have been added under their original comment. Talk about egg on their faces!
I hope the reporter follows up & lets people know that those false charges have been dropped, & the officers have been edjumacatedized.

Apparently, the "Greenfield Police" poster is trying to push the idea that since being shot in the eye with a BB gun, could cause great bodily harm, the BB gun is now a dangerous weapon.
Click to expand...
Since that outcome would be a fluke rather than the way the toy is designed or intended to be used, there's no way they [strike]can[/strike] should get that past a judge. Hopefully the ADA assigned to the case is smart enough not to waste time on that charge.

The drug charges, however... Assuming for the sake of argument that they were actually in possession of drugs & what someone could consider as paraphernalia, if they're dumb enough to be in public while in possession, might they not also be dumb enough to drive under the influence, thereby endangering many other people?
IMO, whatever you want to do to yourself in private is your own concern. When you affect others, the gov't has some say in protecting people.
 
J

JJC

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MKEgal said:
I see some more have been added under their original comment. Talk about egg on their faces!
I hope the reporter follows up & lets people know that those false charges have been dropped, & the officers have been edjumacatedized.

Since that outcome would be a fluke rather than the way the toy is designed or intended to be used, there's no way they [strike]can[/strike] should get that past a judge. Hopefully the ADA assigned to the case is smart enough not to waste time on that charge.

The drug charges, however... Assuming for the sake of argument that they were actually in possession of drugs & what someone could consider as paraphernalia, if they're dumb enough to be in public while in possession, might they not also be dumb enough to drive under the influence, thereby endangering many other people?
IMO, whatever you want to do to yourself in private is your own concern. When you affect others, the gov't has some say in protecting people.
Click to expand...

Here's some information I found on the harmless BB gun:

Flesh wounds are bad enough. But some BB guns are so powerful that their round pellets can actually penetrate the skin. In children up to fourteen years of age, they don't have a lot of muscle mass that can deflect BBs. The result is that the BBs can penetrate through their skin and travel into their chests or abdomens. And, maybe even damage vital organs. That's what happened to an eight-year-old boy who was accidentally shot in the chest by his thirteen-year-old friend. The pellet entered his chest, pierced his heart and killed him. (cbsnews.com, 2004) This is why everyone who shoots a BB gun needs to know and follow some basic BB gun safety tips.

Deaths and Other BB Gun-Related Injuries
According to the CDC, there are about four BB gun-related deaths a year. Four too many. John Mahoney of New Hope, Pennsylvania would probably agree with that statement. If he could. You see, Tucker got a BB gun for his sixteenth birthday in 1999. A friend and him were firing the gun just days after. Thinking the gun had run out of pellets, Mahoney's friend pointed and fired it at him. An undetected BB that was in the gun hit Tucker in the head. The close-range shot injured Tucker's brain and left him being practically a vegetable.

Knowing and using BB gun safety tips can help prevent accidents like these from happening.

JJC
 
Grapeshot

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JJC said:
Here's some information I found on the harmless BB gun:

Flesh wounds are bad enough. But some BB guns are so powerful that their round pellets can actually penetrate the skin. In children up to fourteen years of age, they don't have a lot of muscle mass that can deflect BBs. The result is that the BBs can penetrate through their skin and travel into their chests or abdomens. And, maybe even damage vital organs. That's what happened to an eight-year-old boy who was accidentally shot in the chest by his thirteen-year-old friend. The pellet entered his chest, pierced his heart and killed him. (cbsnews.com, 2004) This is why everyone who shoots a BB gun needs to know and follow some basic BB gun safety tips.

Deaths and Other BB Gun-Related Injuries
According to the CDC, there are about four BB gun-related deaths a year. Four too many. John Mahoney of New Hope, Pennsylvania would probably agree with that statement. If he could. You see, Tucker got a BB gun for his sixteenth birthday in 1999. A friend and him were firing the gun just days after. Thinking the gun had run out of pellets, Mahoney's friend pointed and fired it at him. An undetected BB that was in the gun hit Tucker in the head. The close-range shot injured Tucker's brain and left him being practically a vegetable.

Knowing and using BB gun safety tips can help prevent accidents like these from happening.

JJC
Click to expand...
When you find something like that, please always include a link in order to share the actual article.

We often share news stories with one another. Please remember that these stories are copyrighted material and only post a fair-use excerpt along with a link where the rest of the story may be read - see Forum Rules.
 
MKEgal

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It appears to have been written by Kassidy Emerson of the "Yahoo! Contributor Network".
http://voices.yahoo.com/basic-bb-gun-safety-tips-498304.html
And s/he (JJC) didn't post the whole op-ed piece.

For a step up in reliability (at least the articles have some references), let's try wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BB_gun
"projectiles are usually spherical but can also be pointed/or triangular; those are usually used for bird hunting"
"First introduced in 1938, the BB gun became an iconic American toy"

Yes, if they're pointed at a person they can bruise, injure, or in fluke cases kill.
But again, look at the legal description of ccw in the WI law, which requires a "dangerous weapon", and the definition thereof certainly excludes BB toys.

Given that this is in Milwaukee County, it wouldn't surprise me if the DA actually pursued the "BB toy as a dangerous weapon" angle. Should just drop it & run with the drug charges, which are more serious anyway.
(All of which relies on the stop & then the search being legal...)
 
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Interceptor_Knight

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A PSA regarding school premises(your car and a school parking lot) and BB Guns...
948.61  Dangerous weapons other than firearms on school premises.
(1) In this section:
(a) "Dangerous weapon" has the meaning specified in s. 939.22 (10), except "dangerous weapon" does not include any firearm and does include any beebee or pellet-firing gun that expels a projectile through the force of air pressure or any starter pistol.
(b) "School" means a public school, parochial or private school, or tribal school, as defined in s. 115.001 (15m), which provides an educational program for one or more grades between grades 1 and 12 and which is commonly known as an elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school, or high school.
(c) "School premises" means any school building, grounds, recreation area or athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated for school administration.
(2) Any person who knowingly possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon on school premises is guilty of:
(a) A Class A misdemeanor.
(b) A Class I felony, if the violation is the person's 2nd or subsequent violation of this section within a 5-year period, as measured from the dates the violations occurred.
Click to expand...
 
skidmark

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MKEgal said:
1) What kind of a birthday party are they throwing that they need security? ....
Click to expand...

A quinceanera is a 15th birthday party It's a HUGE deal in the hispanic culture. Possibly the closest anglos come is a debutante ball, but that is still far behind the notion of quinceanera. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinceañera

Parents throw money into these affairs like it was so much water - thousands of dollars is not unusual although I'm guessing this one was not ultra-high fashion. Oh, heck! Just look here http://quinceanera.com/ .

Considering that the guests of the quinceanera are also going to be as dressed up (but never more than the [strike]girl[/strike] young lady at the center of attention), you are looking at a lot of money being spent. Then there are the gifts. O M G - the gifts! And the favors for the guests. And the presents for the grandparents and parents. Again, you can easily be looking at thousands of dollars more.

And then consider the issue of gangs, and that most likely any gang not from her barrio was not invited but would, for a variety of reasons, want to crash the party.

Armed security? You bet. And even if nothing happened - as at this party, the presence of armed security is making a social statement that this party is so special that it needs security protection.

I'll just bet Mom & Dad were beyound fuming when the cops chased away the security team. (Wonder if they got their money back.)

stay safe.
 
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