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Thread: Posse Comitatus is Now Dead

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Posse Comitatus is Now Dead

    http://www.longislandpress.com/2013/...s-into-effect/


    The most objectionable aspect of the regulatory change is the inclusion of vague language that permits military intervention in the event of “civil disturbances.” According to the rule:

    Federal military commanders have the authority, in extraordinary emergency circumstances where prior authorization by the President is impossible and duly constituted local authorities are unable to control the situation, to engage temporarily in activities that are necessary to quell large-scale, unexpected civil disturbances.
    The stated purpose of the updated rule is “support in Accordance With the Posse Comitatus Act,” but in reality it undermines the Insurrection Act and PCA in significant and alarming ways. The most substantial change is the notion of “civil disturbance” as one of the few “domestic emergencies” that would allow for the deployment of military assets on American soil.
    Eric Freedman, a constitutional law professor from Hofstra University, also calls the ruling “an unauthorized power grab.” According to Freedman, “The Department of Defense does not have the authority to grant itself by regulation any more authority than Congress has granted it by statute.” Yet that’s precisely what it did. This wasn’t, however, the Pentagon’s first attempt to expand its authority domestically in the last decade.
    "Public opinion and votes have nothing to do with this. The challenge of the Court is not what they're going to do with votes. The challenge-- of the Court is are they going to protect people's rights." - Al Sharpton


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    Thanks for the disturbing article by Jed Morey. Fortunately he provided a citation to 10 USC 18 MILITARY SUPPORT FOR CIVILIAN LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES. I read all of the citation, as much as such can be read, and did NOT find his quoted passage there, even after searching within it for keywords.

    I did find it on-line;

    http://www.fromthetrenchesworldrepor...urbances/44166

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022704055

    https://publicintelligence.net/dod-c...w-enforcement/

    When I spot checked inside these URL for keywords and tricky phrases, I found such as "when permitted by reference foo.bar." I suggest checking with SNOPES.
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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    No hoax.

    Look here.

    ETA, go to page 15

    http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/c...df/302521p.pdf
    Last edited by sharkey; 05-16-2013 at 01:33 AM.
    "Public opinion and votes have nothing to do with this. The challenge of the Court is not what they're going to do with votes. The challenge-- of the Court is are they going to protect people's rights." - Al Sharpton


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    They have been training for civil disturbances for years ... I think that this just formalizes what they have been doing already.

    Its one reason why I complain about soldiers in camo fatigues in public. I complain to their commander and to the troops themselves. They want to be in uniform in public - it should be a dress uniform.

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    Excuse me, OPie, the original post of this thread was of a change to 10 USC 18 obviating The Posse Comitatus Act, 18 USC 1385. A DuDe directive does not mitigate the mendacious error. You can find anything you want on the interwebzz and domain.mil is a big part of it.

    Yes, I remember the change from undress to fatigues when that was the battle dress uniform (short of poopie-suits that were not to be worn ashore).
    Last edited by Nightmare; 05-16-2013 at 06:16 AM.
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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    Posse Comitatus is Now Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    They have been training for civil disturbances for years ... I think that this just formalizes what they have been doing already.

    Its one reason why I complain about soldiers in camo fatigues in public. I complain to their commander and to the troops themselves. They want to be in uniform in public - it should be a dress uniform.
    Funny since even when I was in our work uniforms were bdus because dress uniforms would have been safety hazards. So according to that I can't get a bite to eat on the way home?

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    Posse Comitatus is Now Dead

    The Air Force used to prohibit the wear of "fatigues" in public except for essential stops to and from work. When more and more folks started wearing various forms of utility uniforms on a daily basis, out of consideration for the members, this rule was removed.

    It is silly and bigoted for someone to object to folks wearing their daily uniform when they go to lunch. However, I have come to expect silliness and bigotry from certain individuals.


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    "Troops" wearing their "combat" uniform in public will lead to desensitizing the public to combat troops roaming the streets with a gun? Hmmm.....not convinced.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The Air Force used to prohibit the wear of "fatigues" in public except for essential stops to and from work. When more and more folks started wearing various forms of utility uniforms on a daily basis, out of consideration for the members, this rule was removed.

    It is silly and bigoted for someone to object to folks wearing their daily uniform when they go to lunch. However, I have come to expect silliness and bigotry from certain individuals.


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    They can go out for lunch -- I'm talking about after hours. And its not "bigoted"

    This rule was not removed - I talked to 2 COs in my area ... they claim that because we are at war, the rule does not apply...but when have we not been at war~its been a constant state since Korea.

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    Posse Comitatus is Now Dead

    I am more concerned with the police with flak vests armed to the teeth walking around then anyone wearing whatever they call the camo now. When I got out 02 the general rule was quick stops like lunch,had picking up kids etc. they didn't want you going to watch a movie in them. It was funny back in 96 when I was doing recruiters assistance he gave us a bunch of business cards and since we were wearing blues he wanted us to go to the mall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uber_Olafsun View Post
    I am more concerned with the police with flak vests armed to the teeth walking around then anyone wearing whatever they call the camo now. When I got out 02 the general rule was quick stops like lunch,had picking up kids etc. they didn't want you going to watch a movie in them. It was funny back in 96 when I was doing recruiters assistance he gave us a bunch of business cards and since we were wearing blues he wanted us to go to the mall.
    I don't have the good vibrations once had seeing a military guy in a uniform ~ most Army personnel think that their fatigues are everywhere wear.

    I generally do not see sailors or marines in fatigues in the general public .. almost always in dress uniform. I live by several bases of different branches.

    I do like to complain to officers whose shoes are not shined to the level I had to keep my shoes shined. They all dislike the comments...but it gives me the giggles to complain. If an officer saw me with dirty\unshined shoes or boots they would complain to my CO...down the line to my supv. who would give me a verbal reprimand. If an officer gives me more than just a displeasured response like "none of you business attitude" then I ask for his CO's name ... that will always shut them up...100% of the time.

    I generally do not complain to COs by giving names -- just general comments on how his command looks like crap because of a few of his soldiers not meeting military standards.

    I think that they get paid too much, get too many benefits, are are now being trained to point their guns at me. Until that changes, I am leering of our military establishment. We spend way too much on military...

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    How did my thread on a serious subject turn into a fashion thread?

    Let's clarify the issue again. The armed forces may now take control of a domestic matter without the state's governor's permission.

    "Public opinion and votes have nothing to do with this. The challenge of the Court is not what they're going to do with votes. The challenge-- of the Court is are they going to protect people's rights." - Al Sharpton


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    This went off track quickly.

    But, since we're talking about utility uniforms, I will just share my Army experience in the 1980s (joined the reserves in 1982, active duty 1986-89, IRR until 1992).

    Whether it was the 501/504 olive green, or the woodland pattern BDU, the standard during that time was that you did not perform any official travel in any utility uniform. The standard uniform for travel was Class A, with Class B permitted for tropical zones.

    In 1984, and for some time afterwards, the CG of Fort Hood was engaged in a battle of wills with the mayor and administration of Killeen. The CG simply declared that soldiers and officers could only wear BDUs off post while travelling directly from their residence to the post, with no stops allowed in between. Not for gas, not for lunch, not to pick up kids from daycare, not even buy food at a drive-through.

    So, fast forward a couple of decades, and I was shocked to see cammo utilities being worn in public. For soldiers returning from deployment? Absolutely! They shouldn't wear a Class A uniform that has been stuffed in a duffel bag for 12 months. But, one back in CONUS, I don't like battle dress being worn casually. And since when do soldiers walk around bare-headed, wearing sunglasses, with their hands in their pockets???

    Dad taught me how to tie a necktie; he explained he was good at it, because he had learned to tie one while on the run. He wasn't allowed on the bus unless in proper uniform, and chances are there would be an MP there to check.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkey View Post
    How did my thread on a serious subject turn into a fashion thread?

    Let's clarify the issue again. The armed forces may now take control of a domestic matter without the state's governor's permission.

    Its clearly relevant ... you see soldiers in combat clothing ... you will then next see them with rifles .... you will next see them pointing their rifles at you ...

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Its clearly relevant ... you see soldiers in combat clothing ... you will then next see them with rifles .... you will next see them pointing their rifles at you ...
    I'm an AF brat. There was never any issue with soldiers wearing their BDU's off base anywhere I lived. The only issue was with us kids wearing camo. That was not allowed but we did it anyways.

    The only problem with military wearing camo off base is they signal themselves out as being not armed, which is ironic.

    Let's get back to point.
    "Public opinion and votes have nothing to do with this. The challenge of the Court is not what they're going to do with votes. The challenge-- of the Court is are they going to protect people's rights." - Al Sharpton


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    "Soldiers" were stationed at airports with their guns and folks appreciated that show of force. What makes you think that the folks will reject soldiers with guns in their subdivision when the zombies are running loose?

    Non-issue.....for now. I'll get all worked up if getting all worked up is required.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    "Soldiers" were stationed at airports with their guns and folks appreciated that show of force. What makes you think that the folks will reject soldiers with guns in their subdivision when the zombies are running loose?
    If the zombies are running loose, I hope they bring loaded guns, unlike they did to the airport or the Boston Marathon manhunt.

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyauW...ature=youtu.be

    Leaked Document: Military Internment Camps in U.S to be Used for Political Dissidents

    Internment camps for political dissidents in the U.S. aren't a conspiracy theory. The Department of Defense document entitled "INTERNMENT AND RESETTLEMENT OPERATIONS" or FM 3-39.40 proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    Download link for FM 3-39.40:http://info.publicintelligence.net/U...settlement.pdf
    Last edited by zack991; 05-20-2013 at 08:19 PM.
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