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Thread: Interesting Wording on an FFL Website

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Interesting Wording on an FFL Website

    http://www.oldtimeguntrader.com

    If you look down a little bit, the site states "If you purchase a firearm online and wish to bring it into the Commonwealth of Virginia then it must be legally registered through the Virginia State Police and the ATF."

    It was my understanding that VA did not have a "registration".

    I understand what he is <i>trying</i> to say, but I think he could word things a little differently.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    http://www.oldtimeguntrader.com

    If you look down a little bit, the site states "If you purchase a firearm online and wish to bring it into the Commonwealth of Virginia then it must be legally registered through the Virginia State Police and the ATF."

    It was my understanding that VA did not have a "registration".

    I understand what he is <i>trying</i> to say, but I think he could word things a little differently.
    I sent him an e-mail asking how to do this.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  3. #3
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    I sent him an e-mail asking how to do this.
    Awesome! Keep us posted.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    Awesome! Keep us posted.
    He did say he is an old timer...
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    He did say he is an old timer...
    Well I, being much younger than the average member here, do not know if there ever WAS registration in VA.
    Last edited by Esanders2008; 05-15-2013 at 03:26 PM.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Regular Member DryBones's Avatar
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    how is it registration if you are having it shipped into a FFL and just doing the 4473 with a NICS check?

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    I sent him an e-mail asking how to do this.
    Here's his response.

    If you purchase a gun through a site like Gunbroker.com then the gun would be shipped to me from the dealer. I would receive the gun and contact you once it arrived. I would take your Va Drivers License and a 2nd form of id and process it through the State Police and the ATF. Once I get a verification from the State Police I would then be able to release the gun to you. All of this is done in my office.

    I responded that this does not constitute a registration of a firearm, and that Virginia does not register firearms.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Re: Interesting Wording on an FFL Website

    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    Well I, being much younger than the average member here, do not know if there ever WAS registration in VA.
    There is registration per say. It's for machine guns though.

    http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm

    Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Jus' some o' that bad nomenclature thing, like clips v magazines and class 3 licenses v NFA stamps. He knew what he meant he just lacked the words to say it properly.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    Here's his response.
    If you purchase a gun through a site like Gunbroker.com then the gun would be shipped to me from the dealer. I would receive the gun and contact you once it arrived. I would take your Va Drivers License and a 2nd form of id and process it through the State Police and the ATF. Once I get a verification from the State Police I would then be able to release the gun to you. All of this is done in my office.

    I responded that this does not constitute a registration of a firearm, and that Virginia does not register firearms.
    Check the site now.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  11. #11
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    Check the site now.
    Very nice! Good job to all involved.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    Well I, being much younger than the average member here, do not know if there ever WAS registration in VA.
    Yes and No!
    There was ever legal registration but certain areas like Henrico and Richmond, had illegal ordinances requiring people in the venue to get purchase permits from the locality before buying a gun. I explained this to Jester last night.

    Richmond and probably others, used issuing CWP's to get information on people's guns. Grapeshot told me he had to list any firearms he may carry. I was told to list All my guns (and if you think I did I have a bridge for you).

    So yeah...there were some forms of registration.

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Yes and No!
    There was ever legal registration but certain areas like Henrico and Richmond, had illegal ordinances requiring people in the venue to get purchase permits from the locality before buying a gun. I explained this to Jester last night.

    Richmond and probably others, used issuing CWP's to get information on people's guns. Grapeshot told me he had to list any firearms he may carry. I was told to list All my guns (and if you think I did I have a bridge for you).

    So yeah...there were some forms of registration.
    Well I'm glad we have preemption now.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    Here's his response.

    If you purchase a gun through a site like Gunbroker.com then the gun would be shipped to me from the dealer. I would receive the gun and contact you once it arrived. I would take your Va Drivers License and a 2nd form of id and process it through the State Police and the ATF. Once I get a verification from the State Police I would then be able to release the gun to you. All of this is done in my office.

    I responded that this does not constitute a registration of a firearm, and that Virginia does not register firearms.
    Or... perhaps calling this process a "registration" makes this old timer smarter than all the rest of us think we might be...

    Hmm....

    TFred

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    Here's his response.

    If you purchase a gun through a site like Gunbroker.com then the gun would be shipped to me from the dealer. I would receive the gun and contact you once it arrived. I would take your Va Drivers License and a 2nd form of id and process it through the State Police and the ATF. Once I get a verification from the State Police I would then be able to release the gun to you. All of this is done in my office.

    I responded that this does not constitute a registration of a firearm, and that Virginia does not register firearms.
    If I'm not mistaken, this part is wrong; "..and the ATF". It's the FBI that runs the NCIS check, not the ATF.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, this part is wrong; "..and the ATF". It's the FBI that runs the NCIS check, not the ATF.
    Yep!

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    Regular Member DryBones's Avatar
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    Form 4473 is for the ATF if they need to view it.

    From Wiki whatever that's worth:

    The Form 4473 contains name, address, date of birth, government-issued photo ID, National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) background check transaction number, make/model/serial number of the firearm, and a short federal affidavit stating that the purchaser is eligible to purchase firearms under federal law. Lying on this form is a felony and can be punished by up to five years in prison in addition to fines, even if the transaction is simply denied by the NICS, although prosecutions are rare in the absence of another felony committed with the gun purchased.
    The dealer also records all information from the Form 4473 into their "bound-book". A dealer must keep this on file at least 20 years and is required to surrender the log to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) upon retirement from the firearms business. The ATF is allowed to inspect, as well as request a copy of the Form 4473 from the dealer during the course of a criminal investigation.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, this part is wrong; "..and the ATF". It's the FBI that runs the NCIS check, not the ATF.
    Well, he did say he is an old timer.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4473 wiki
    The Form 4473 contains name, address, date of birth, government-issued photo ID, National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) background check transaction number, make/model/serial number of the firearm, and a short federal affidavit stating that the purchaser is eligible to purchase firearms under federal law.
    That bolded part is completely unnecessary if all they're ensuring is that the person is legal to buy a gun.
    Remove the gun-specific info & there's no danger of it being misused as a registration/confiscation scheme.

    As for the ID, I've had a dealer tell me that only a state driver's license is acceptable.
    Not a passport, not a military ID, not a cc license w/ a picture.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    That bolded part is completely unnecessary if all they're ensuring is that the person is legal to buy a gun.
    Remove the gun-specific info & there's no danger of it being misused as a registration/confiscation scheme.

    As for the ID, I've had a dealer tell me that only a state driver's license is acceptable.
    Not a passport, not a military ID, not a cc license w/ a picture.
    No....



    You don't understand the difference between gun registration and gun tracing. That information is for gun tracing, not gun registration. You see for gun registration you have a list of each gun owner and the serial number of every firearm they own. For gun tracing you have a list of each gun owner and the serial number of every firearm they buy (from an FFL).

    If we didn't record the gun serial numbers then we couldn't have gun registration; whoops I mean gun tracing.

    BTW it must be a state ID, not a Drivers license. Still waiting to see what the new Commonwealth voter ID will look like.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    That bolded part is completely unnecessary if all they're ensuring is that the person is legal to buy a gun.
    Remove the gun-specific info & there's no danger of it being misused as a registration/confiscation scheme.

    As for the ID, I've had a dealer tell me that only a state driver's license is acceptable.
    Not a passport, not a military ID, not a cc license w/ a picture.
    Actually, in Virginia, the form used for the BG Check is a state form, which doesn't record the firearm specifics, only whether it's a handgun or long gun. Class III may be different.

    It is difficult (by design) for the Feds to trace a gun, as they don't (generally) have records of firearms from FFLs until the FFL must submit his records, either because the records are old enough (20 years?), or the FFL goes out of business. If they wish to trace a gun, they typically have to start with the manufacturer who directs them to a distributor, who directs them to a dealer, who can look in his records to provide the customer info, but that chain only gets them to the first retail purchaser. Of course, they can put the screws to him/her for info on what happened to the gun. Those paper records that BATFE does have? By law, they're not allowed to scan them into an electronic data base, so they store them on microfiche. Recently, there was an item on ABC Evening News addressing this, and basically touting it as an inefficient use of tax dollars. However, when Senator Chuck Grassley (R Iowa), ranking republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, was interviewed about this, he said that it's none of the government's business what guns are owned by whom. Go Chuck!
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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