• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Having a drink ?

Status
Not open for further replies.

casper

Guest
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
266
Location
Holland, MI.
Can you legally have a drink and carry a gun at the same time, at a bar or with friends, at their house, or where ever it's normally legal ? It's just something I'm wondering.
 

Ezerharden

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
723
Location
Erie, MI
Can you legally have a drink and carry a gun at the same time, at a bar or with friends, at their house, or where ever it's normally legal ? It's just something I'm wondering.

I wouldn't but that's just me. I believe the BAC for concealed carry is .02. Either way not worth the risk IMO.


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk 2 please pardon any typo's.
 

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
I wouldn't but that's just me. I believe the BAC for concealed carry is .02. Either way not worth the risk IMO.


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk 2 please pardon any typo's.

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10961--,00.html

This is correct. Now the fact that you would even ask this question is alarming. It's kind of like asking if smoking & pumping gas is ok? You may get away with it, but if you ever have to use your pistol, look forward to spending a long time in jail should your BAC (it will be tested) come back any higher than .01999999999. You willing to risk your freedom for a 1/4 of a beer, or a sip of a mixed drink? :eek:

One more thing Casper - Just in case you don't know. Until you get your CPL avoid bars, or any place that even has a liquor license. This means Kroger / Meijer / party stores etc.. etc...while carrying a pistol openly.
 
Last edited:

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Open carry BAC limit is .08.

A good shoot is a good shoot is a good shoot. That is to say, if your life is in danger and you use your gun, BAC won't matter.

If there is question as to WHETHER it's a good shoot, your BAC will come up in court. Assume that for most situations, there will be a question. The exception being castle doctrine laws, ie in your own home, and someone is breaking in. Since it can be assumed that someone breaking in while you're inside is a threat of serious bodily harm, you're GTG even if you're plastered.


The Supreme Court of Michigan has already held that a prohibited person still has the right to common law self-defense, even if he has to break the law in order to use that right. That means a felon can take temporary possession of a gun, a normal person can brandish his gun, an a drunk person can possess the gun to defend himself.

But keep in mind the SCoM said that possession must only last for as long as is necessary to defend oneself. So if you're plastered, and you defend yourself, lose the gun ASAP - that doesn't mean dispose of the evidence, but place it somewhere safe till LEO arrives and tell them where it is.
 

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
Open carry BAC limit is .08.
.

Arguably, there is no limit if the officer finds you "impaired". That's part of the same statute as .08. I don't have the reference off hand, but neither did you apparently.

When you find .08 you'll find the language I referenced.
 

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Arguably, there is no limit if the officer finds you "impaired". That's part of the same statute as .08. I don't have the reference off hand, but neither did you apparently.

When you find .08 you'll find the language I referenced.

You're correct. But as I said, a good shoot is a good shoot is a good shoot.

I wouldn't make a habit of carrying while impaired (impairment is subjective, basically the officer would have to articulate how he visibly noticed your impairment - usually by a "roadside" type sobriety test), you could still lawfully defend yourself while impaired, and especially in the home, as I mentioned above.

If you're one to be impaired (I interpret that as "buzzed") after one drink, then I wouldn't drink at all while carrying.

Really, I wouldn't drink at all while carrying anyway. But if you aren't affected at all by one beer, It ain't gonna hurt anything, realistically (besides image, of course).
 
Last edited:

tattedupboy

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
518
Location
Gary, Indiana, USA
Legality notwithstanding, handling potentially dangerous machinery, whether a car, a firearm, a lawnmower, or anything else, is usually not a good idea while under the influence of alcohol. As for its legality, I don't believe there's a national standard; it varies by state.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 

Ezerharden

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
723
Location
Erie, MI
Open carry BAC limit is .08.

A good shoot is a good shoot is a good shoot. That is to say, if your life is in danger and you use your gun, BAC won't matter.

If there is question as to WHETHER it's a good shoot, your BAC will come up in court. Assume that for most situations, there will be a question. The exception being castle doctrine laws, ie in your own home, and someone is breaking in. Since it can be assumed that someone breaking in while you're inside is a threat of serious bodily harm, you're GTG even if you're plastered.


The Supreme Court of Michigan has already held that a prohibited person still has the right to common law self-defense, even if he has to break the law in order to use that right. That means a felon can take temporary possession of a gun, a normal person can brandish his gun, an a drunk person can possess the gun to defend himself.

But keep in mind the SCoM said that possession must only last for as long as is necessary to defend oneself. So if you're plastered, and you defend yourself, lose the gun ASAP - that doesn't mean dispose of the evidence, but place it somewhere safe till LEO arrives and tell them where it is.

Correct on the .08 for Open Carry, however if you get into your car afterwards you are now CC unless you unload and case it.
 

casper

Guest
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
266
Location
Holland, MI.
Thanks guys, the question wasn't for me personally, as like you say, I wouldn't risk it. The answer is yes, but not a good idea. I was presented with the question, and I wasn't sure, so I asked it here.:)
 

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
I my opinion, I would say no. (Under the influence) is kind of a catch all.


The State would have the burden of proving you were being influenced by alcohol. Influence would indicate your judgement is affected by the alcohol in your system.

And Again, in a self-defense situation, if it was a good shoot, it would be quite difficult for a prosecutor to argue you were influenced to make THE RIGHT DECISION by the alcohol in your system.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
...handling potentially dangerous machinery, whether a car, a firearm, a lawnmower, or anything else, is usually not a good idea while under the influence of alcohol....

Handling and possession are two very different things.

What about a 6" serrated steak knife? Should one possess this deadly weapon (in most states) while consuming a glass of red wine? Heck, actually this is usually being handled at the same time and nobody gives it a second thought.

If you had been drinking at a RESPONSIBLE pace, i.e. not drunk, would you drive a car in an emergency? If yes, why not have a sidearm if you are going to drink RESPONSIBLY, and if allowed by law?

The car is always there, in "possession" if you will. Just because you are going to drink doesn't mean you put the ignition module in your safe to disable it first.
 
Last edited:

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
Only if one is waving a gun around with their finger in the trigger guard while drinking.

I assume you would agree as an instructor that drinking or using any substance that impairs ones judgement and response times, is a bad idea? Correct? ???
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
I assume you would agree as an instructor that drinking or using any substance that impairs ones judgement and response times, is a bad idea? Correct? ???

Define impair.

Should coffee be mandatory first thing in the morning? After all, it increases one's alertness and response times.

Surely you recognize a difference between drinking responsibly and being drunk. Lots of states' laws do.

Should one no longer have the option of self-defense at any degree of impairment or slower response time?

Either way, how does an impaired judgment or slower response time equate the danger of a lit cigarette inches from gasoline vapors? I maintain this is a poor analogy, but I'm sure its hyperbole accomplished its sensational purpose.
 
Last edited:

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
The State would have the burden of proving you were being influenced by alcohol. Influence would indicate your judgement is affected by the alcohol in your system.

And Again, in a self-defense situation, if it was a good shoot, it would be quite difficult for a prosecutor to argue you were influenced to make THE RIGHT DECISION by the alcohol in your system.

Zig - it is extremely easy for prosecutor to paint a person carrying a gun as irresponsible and dangerous, no matter how good their reasons for shooting or even drawing their pistol. Don't take my word for it, ask Jim Makowski who has a former client sitting in Jackson State prison for simply drawing a pistol in self defense. Why? He drank "after" the incident, in his home before police showed up. Jury's today are borderline retarded often, sad but true.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
Zig - it is extremely easy for prosecutor to paint a person carrying a gun as irresponsible and dangerous, no matter how good their reasons for shooting or even drawing their pistol. Don't take my word for it, ask Jim Makowski who has a former client sitting in Jackson State prison for simply drawing a pistol in self defense. Why? He drank "after" the incident, in his home before police showed up. Jury's today are borderline retarded often, sad but true.

Since the outcome is so significant, please cite this case so we can examine the details.
 

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
Legality notwithstanding, handling potentially dangerous machinery, whether a car, a firearm, a lawnmower, or anything else, is usually not a good idea while under the influence of alcohol. As for its legality, I don't believe there's a national standard; it varies by state.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

but it's perfectly legal in indiana... just not in the michigan nanny state.
 

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
Since the outcome is so significant, please cite this case so we can examine the details.

Google Jim his number is listed. Again not going to argue with you. Do you tell your students it's a good idea to drink and carry? Never did answer, go figure? :rolleyes:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top