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  1. #1
    Regular Member Mantioch's Avatar
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    Do you have a plan?

    My family's readiness was tested this morning at about 4:41am. The burglar alarm went off and within a few seconds, I had my Glock 19 out of the bedside safe and took up a position at the top of the steps (all bedrooms are upstairs). The kids executed their emergency plan brilliantly, the 14 year old getting his 9 month old brother and the 10 year old shuffling her 4 year old sister to safety. We have a Protect America alarm system, which has two way communication with the monitor station. I confirmed my identity and the situation with the guy from the top of the stairs and proceeded down with my wife, her .38 in hand, covering the steps. The upstairs alarm panel indicated a breach at the garage door, and I found it was indeed wide open. The garage windows were secure as we're the exterior car doors. I'm not sure what happened, it was all really weird. I'm thinking poltergeist! Anyway, main points are we had a plan, we executed perfectly, and I managed to get my weapon out of the combination safe in the pitch dark! Oh, and I didn't have to kill anyone.
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers

    "I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians." - George Mason

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    Is the "Protect America alarm system with two way communications" redundant, belts and braces?

    Remotely operated garage doors are susceptible to spoofing due to their limited number of available codes and susceptible to electrical noise.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 05-16-2013 at 07:17 AM.
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  3. #3
    Regular Member Mantioch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Is the "Protect America alarm system with two way communications" redundant, belts and braces?

    Remotely operated garage doors are susceptible to spoofing due to their limited number of available codes and susceptible to electrical noise.
    I'm not sure exactly what you mean. The door from the house to the garage as well as the windows in the garage are secured via the alarm. The service offers alarm components for the car doors, but I do not have those. Basically, if someone were to open the garage car doors, it would be very audible from the bedroom and they could not get through the door from the house to the garage without setting off the alarm. The bad thing is I did not have the door from the garage to the house locked. I will from now on!
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers

    "I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians." - George Mason

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantioch View Post
    The bad thing is I did not have the door from the garage to the house locked. I will from now on!
    Aha! Now you have a plan (maybe).

    You say you took up a position at the top of the stairs. Isn't that the other end of the fatal funnel you are hoping a BG gets trapped in?

    I have a mental image of you standing at the top of the stairs, where you have no cover and darned little concealment. While wallboard and 2x4s to not offer much in the way of cover, you get "better than nothing" when you are prone on the hallway floor with just a portion of your head peeking down the stairs.

    So you have 2-way communication with the alarm monitoring station? How much longer will it take them to assess sounds from a dropped phone or a wall unit and then contact your local PD? Seems to me you are adding more time to "when you need the police they are minutes away". Talk to your local PD/9-1-1 dispatcher (sometimes they are not in the same agency) to see how they feel about getting a call as soon as the alarm goes off so that they can at least stage response units.

    And that 2-way communication hook-up? Is it based on a landline connection? A cable connection along with your internet and phone and cable bundle? Both of those can be defeated with a pair of wirecutters, whereas a cell phone needs a tower taken down to be put out of commission.

    You went down the stairs to clear your house? Your wife remained at the top of the stairs with her .38 to "cover" you? How far can you go before you are out of sight of the wife? How would you wife communicate with the alarm company or the local PD if she heard sounds like you getting shot or falling over one of the kids' toys and hitting your head on the side of the coffee table that knocks you unconsious? But since nothing like either of those two possibilities happened, what's your "all clear, hubby coming back upstairs" code phrase? What's the "I'm being held captive but they want me to tell you everythiong is OK so they can come upstairs to get you and the kids too" code phrase?

    Do you have an "abandon ship" drill and a rally point? How long do they wait at the rally point before deciding you probably are not coming? What do they do if that's what they decide?

    In all seriousness, you did good regarding what you did - except for that clearing the house part. I just want you to think your plan out a bit beyond the immediate action when the alarm goes off. Folks that do think their plan out to the point of having to leave the house usually never need to carry the plan out that far. But if it became necessary, having a plan that goes that far is better than trying to wing it on the fly.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I have one of those signs, sans alarm system, and a big Choco Lab who don't bark much, especially at night when things may go 'bump'. When he does bark, at night, things are amiss and the 12GA is made ready.

    I'll call the cops to clean up a mess, if any is made, since they will ultimately be late to the party.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Mantioch's Avatar
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    Dang, skidmark! We do have a challenge and reply with the kids, and there is a secret hostage code word to use with the alarm guy who is monitoring and with my wife.

    I guess I was really impressed with the kids keeping calm and doing what they have been told to do. Keeping them as far away from the action as possible is the goal. My son pushed his dresser against the door for added flare.

    I'm also normally assuming it is a petty thug looking to steal something versus an all out assault on the house with wire cutting and all of that. We don't have enough ammo and loaded magazines on hand to repel something like that. We'd be screwed.
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers

    "I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians." - George Mason

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    Release the hounds !

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantioch View Post
    Dang, skidmark! We do have a challenge and reply with the kids, and there is a secret hostage code word to use with the alarm guy who is monitoring and with my wife.

    I guess I was really impressed with the kids keeping calm and doing what they have been told to do. Keeping them as far away from the action as possible is the goal. My son pushed his dresser against the door for added flare.

    I'm also normally assuming it is a petty thug looking to steal something versus an all out assault on the house with wire cutting and all of that. We don't have enough ammo and loaded magazines on hand to repel something like that. We'd be screwed.
    I was also impressed that your kids did so well. And I'm impressed that you have thought out a plan that goes beyond calling 9-1-1 and praying. I threw all the other stuff out there to stimulate thinking, not to suggest any plan that did not contain all those elements is not a good plan.

    I know and can repeat with both hands tied behind my back all the legal mumbo-jumbo for castle doctrine. But part of me wants to say that as long as they stay away from me (don't come upstairs in your case) they can steal all they want to without me needing to go and shoot them into the next dimension. That's not to say I can guarantee I would act that way. It's just to say that sometimes not confronting is an option.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Do you have a plan?

    I like reading these threads. I learn something from them all.

    Politics and religion threads? I already know it all. These kind of threads here give me a chance to grow.


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    Regular Member Mantioch's Avatar
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    Re: Do you have a plan?

    @skidmark - Oh, absolutely. You certainly gave me some things to think about and that's a very good thing. I just read through several back issues of USCCA's magazine and there were several cases where multiple armed men broke through doors and disregarded the alarm. Some of these resulted in shootouts with the home owners.

    Point is I agree with you and need more contingency plans and likely more firepower.

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    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers

    "I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians." - George Mason

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    Regular Member ron73440's Avatar
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    I agree with Skidmark, if I'm upstairs and my family is safe with me, I would hold the position I have instead of taking the chance of being jumped from behind trying to clear the downstairs.
    What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade

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    Regular Member Mantioch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron73440 View Post
    I agree with Skidmark, if I'm upstairs and my family is safe with me, I would hold the position I have instead of taking the chance of being jumped from behind trying to clear the downstairs.
    Agreed. That was stupid. The whole point is to funnel the bad guys into the narrow stairwell where we have some cover at the top, but they have none.

    I think the only reason I did that was because I suspected a false alarm since I knew the car doors were closed and the panel indicated garage door but no garage window break in. Still, to skidmark's point, those doors could have been forced open or spoofed. Or there could ave been a malfunction with the window sensors. I wasn't sure enough not to go down armed, so I wasn't sure enough.

    And I really didn't want to talk to the police at 4 or 5 in the morning
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers

    "I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians." - George Mason

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    Regular Member HP995's Avatar
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    Emplacement at top of stairs.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    OK, now that we all seem to agree remaining at the top of the stairs is the better idea -

    How many of you have reinforced the top of your stairs with a couple of sheets of mild steel to turn concealment into cover? 2' high x 3' long x 1/4" thick tucked behind the wallboard and slanted like a shooting range backstop. It's enough to lay down behind and keep most of your vitals out of reach.

    Did you know that most people shooting downhill shoot high? Go do some dry fire tests from the top of yur stairs and see where you are shooting.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    OK, now that we all seem to agree remaining at the top of the stairs is the better idea -

    How many of you have reinforced the top of your stairs with a couple of sheets of mild steel to turn concealment into cover? 2' high x 3' long x 1/4" thick tucked behind the wallboard and slanted like a shooting range backstop. It's enough to lay down behind and keep most of your vitals out of reach.

    Did you know that most people shooting downhill shoot high? Go do some dry fire tests from the top of yur stairs and see where you are shooting.

    stay safe.
    My wife and I are planning on building next summer, and if we decide to go with a multiple level home, I'm planning on metal on the top edge of the stairs, just as you suggested (disturbed minds think alike?!?) Of course, I was also thinking of traps in "funnel" areas, but that may just be a little TOO paranoid!

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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    Do you have a plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I have one of those signs, sans alarm system, and a big Choco Lab who don't bark much, especially at night when things may go 'bump'. When he does bark, at night, things are amiss and the 12GA is made ready.

    I'll call the cops to clean up a mess, if any is made, since they will ultimately be late to the party.
    I like this plan. Very similar to mine. If one of the beasts at the gate is rousted and angry my 1911 is at the ready.


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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BriKuz View Post
    My wife and I are planning on building next summer, and if we decide to go with a multiple level home, I'm planning on metal on the top edge of the stairs, just as you suggested (disturbed minds think alike?!?) Of course, I was also thinking of traps in "funnel" areas, but that may just be a little TOO paranoid!
    Even if you go single story, there are places where you might want armor. Ferinstance about 24" wide by height of the room at the edge of the bedroom door. Only need to put it on the side you'll be hiding behind as you shoot down the hallway. Just remember the angles as you stand farther off from the wall to "slice the pie".

    Remember, you are only paranoid until something happens. Then you become the world's greatest fortune teller.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    I good pair of electronic hearing protection would be a good thing to have...if you have time to throw them on before you check things out. You ears will thank you if you have to let lead fly.

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    Regular Member ron73440's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyBoy276 View Post
    I good pair of electronic hearing protection would be a good thing to have...if you have time to throw them on before you check things out. You ears will thank you if you have to let lead fly.
    I think I would chance blasting my ears, wouldn't want to miss hearing something that could be important.
    What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade

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    Quote Originally Posted by ron73440 View Post
    I think I would chance blasting my ears, wouldn't want to miss hearing something that could be important.
    You wouldn't miss anything. Electronic hearing protection are the headsets that have microphones in the sides that pick up what you would be hearing with them off. It can actually amplify the sounds around you (volume control) if you want them to. They basically record what you should be hearing and play it back at a 0.00001 second delay (something like that..heh), and when there is a gunshot, it cuts the playback, protecting your ears.

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    I bought a pair of those this week. With the volume off, they muffle sound nearly completely. With moderate volume, you hear sound as though you are not wearing them. The sound is not electronic, it is quite pure, just as though you are hearing it directly. With the volume turned up, the amplification is so good that I hear better than I did 40 years ago! I haven't shot with them yet. I let you know how well they block out sudden loud noise.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Electronic muffs are great. I have a pair by Pelitor ($75+) and some no-name ones from Tractor Supply Store ($9.95). Both work about equally well.

    The problem (at least for me) would be to remember to a) pick them up and b) put them on.

    Did you ever do a drill of responding to a middle-of-the-night breakin? Being all stove in and handicapped I cannot move fast. My buddy, who is almost as slow and crippled as I am, took less than 10 seconds to get from the back door to my bedroom door. (Average time was 6.2 seconds!) Not much time to wake up, wonder what that noise was, decide I'm being invaded, and get my essential war gear. (Gunney Highway: People, let's have an equipment check-- weapon? Well, let's keep it simple. You got your boots on, you can walk into combat.) I'm hoping that flip-flops count.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Just a quick question

    Why not arm the 14 year old?


    If all else fails I want and teach my kids to arm themselves. I don't want them to go down like helpless sheep because it's not politically correct to teach out children how to shoot.
    Don't confuse me with the facts, I have my emotions!

    I guess that's the difference between no crime and "stopping" a crime in progress. I prefer no crime.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packer fan View Post
    Why not arm the 14 year old?


    If all else fails I want and teach my kids to arm themselves. I don't want them to go down like helpless sheep because it's not politically correct to teach out children how to shoot.
    It's a part of the rite of passage. Graduating from training wheels to two wheels. "Today I am a fountain pen."* No longer a liability to be protected but an asset to be added to the defense of the family. About the only thing left after that is going off on your own or contributing to the family income if you stay at home.

    stay safe.

    * - A prize if you know where that comes from. A bigger prize if you post the explanation.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  25. #25
    Regular Member Mantioch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packer fan View Post
    Why not arm the 14 year old?


    If all else fails I want and teach my kids to arm themselves. I don't want them to go down like helpless sheep because it's not politically correct to teach out children how to shoot.
    Absolutely agree. He's been pretty apprehensive about firearms, though he absolutely gets the need for it and the rights surrounding it. Firearms are fairly new to the home, so he has not grown up around them and though we've discussed gun safety exhaustively, I've not taken any of the kids to the range yet - though we will do so. My daughters, who are 4 and 10 are learning muzzle control (not pointing it at things you don't want to shoot), trigger finger position and general firearm safety with their BB pistols. My 9 month old boy will grow up around them for sure.

    @skidmark - That sounds like something from Dead Poets Society.
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers

    "I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians." - George Mason

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