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Thread: Private sale in NC question

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    Regular Member Jamesm760's Avatar
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    Private sale in NC question

    I am going to buy a firearm from an individual tomorrow... is there any info I should obtain from them? Type a sale document? I've only bought brand new firearms and I just don't want to be in a situation down the line where the firearm might have been stolen etc. Any advice? please and thanks. Also, I have a purchase permit, Do i need that in a private sale?
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesm760 View Post
    I am going to buy a firearm from an individual tomorrow... is there any info I should obtain from them? Type a sale document? I've only bought brand new firearms and I just don't want to be in a situation down the line where the firearm might have been stolen etc. Any advice? please and thanks. Also, I have a purchase permit, Do i need that in a private sale?
    For a handgun NC requires a PPP even on a private sale.
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    " I just don't want to be in a situation down the line where the firearm might have been stolen"


    The only way to determine that would be if it has been reported stolen and to have LE run a check.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    you can have it checked by LE, but i don't trust them either. if you know someone LEO, you might could ask them to check for you. i think a gun dealer can check also. they might charge you.

    the only real thing you need is a bill of sell. the seller doesn't need to keep your PPP. they would just need to know you have one.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    you can have it checked by LE, but i don't trust them either. if you know someone LEO, you might could ask them to check for you. i think a gun dealer can check also. they might charge you.

    the only real thing you need is a bill of sell. the seller doesn't need to keep your PPP. they would just need to know you have one.
    I'm pretty sure that in a for a private sale of a handgun you surrender your ppp to the seller. If you have a chp then the seller would need to copy down the information or a photo copy of the chp. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JABEACHFAN View Post
    I'm pretty sure that in a for a private sale of a handgun you surrender your ppp to the seller. If you have a chp then the seller would need to copy down the information or a photo copy of the chp. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
    I believe the statute only states you have to have one, nothing about surrendering it on a private sale. Unless the laws have changed the seller is not required to keep any information, it makes more sense for the buyer to get a bill of sale though.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
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    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
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    I purchased a handgun from an individual earlier this year.

    we used this form http://goheeled.com/wp-content/uploa...ll-of-sale.pdf

    And I took cellphone pics of his ID, he took cellphone pics of my ID and CHP, plus the completed bill of sale form, which I retained.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    If I buy a gun private, the only thing I need is their name on a bill of sale with a signature. I don't need to keep copies of the rest, and I certainly will not provide anybody a private record of my ID which could fall into the wrong hands. No sirrrrrrr! Minimal information for the sale and transfer.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
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    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    If I buy a gun private, the only thing I need is their name on a bill of sale with a signature. I don't need to keep copies of the rest, and I certainly will not provide anybody a private record of my ID which could fall into the wrong hands. No sirrrrrrr! Minimal information for the sale and transfer.
    This wasn't out behind a white van in the WalMart parking lot, or a psssst psst at a gun show parking lot. And includes nothing that is not on the bill of sale or public record. If the other party refused to disclose this information by filling in the form, no deal, whether I'm the buyer or the seller. You certainly leave all that info with the store when you fill out a 4473 and show your ID and CHP or PPP.

    Your name and signature does little to identify you, especially if you have a common name.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40sc View Post
    This wasn't out behind a white van in the WalMart parking lot, or a psssst psst at a gun show parking lot. And includes nothing that is not on the bill of sale or public record. If the other party refused to disclose this information by filling in the form, no deal, whether I'm the buyer or the seller. You certainly leave all that info with the store when you fill out a 4473 and show your ID and CHP or PPP.

    Your name and signature does little to identify you, especially if you have a common name.
    It is not a store, it is a private transaction, and the seller or buyer are not entitled to personal information outside of what is required by law. Only a fool would give DL, social security number or any other information that may lead to identity theft. Your mileage may vary, you can do as you please.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    It is not a store, it is a private transaction, and the seller or buyer are not entitled to personal information outside of what is required by law. Only a fool would give DL, social security number or any other information that may lead to identity theft. Your mileage may vary, you can do as you please.
    On this an many other gun and carry related forums there are many questions posed about what is legal, what isn't, can I do this, and similar. In almost everyone of these threads the one constant answer is that you "don't ask a cop" because their response may or may not be correct, either through their ignorance of the law, or willful misleading answers, because they don't like the law.

    Thanks for your opinion, and I will follow your last advise, and do as I please.

    The pretty standard bill of sale I linked to is frequently recommended for private transactions. If the other party refused to complete their part completely, the deal is off, more of the "as I please" aspect.
    Last edited by XD40sc; 05-23-2013 at 01:21 AM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40sc View Post
    On this an many other gun and carry related forums there are many questions posed about what is legal, what isn't, can I do this, and similar. In almost everyone of these threads the one constant answer is that you "don't ask a cop" because their response may or may not be correct, either through their ignorance of the law, or willful misleading answers, because they don't like the law.

    Thanks for your opinion, and I will follow your last advise, and do as I please.

    The pretty standard bill of sale I linked to is frequently recommended for private transactions. If the other party refused to complete their part completely, the deal is off, more of the "as I please" aspect.
    What is not illegal IS legal. If there are no laws requiring certain personal information be provided for a private sale, then the sale is legal without providing it. If you know of a statute stating otherwise you should provide a citation.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    What is not illegal IS legal. If there are no laws requiring certain personal information be provided for a private sale, then the sale is legal without providing it. If you know of a statute stating otherwise you should provide a citation.
    The most common advise is "don't trust a cop to answer a legal issue question" as they are often wrong either through ignorance or intent. As my ex-SIL is a deputy, and dumber than a box of rocks, I have nothing to counter that advise.
    Last edited by XD40sc; 05-23-2013 at 11:23 AM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40sc View Post
    The most common advise is "don't trust a cop to answer a legal issue question" as they are often wrong either through ignorance or intent. As my ex-SIL is a deputy, and dumber than a box of rocks, I have nothing to counter that advise.
    Provide a citation to back up your claims, and people should not trust a provocateur, that uses smart arse remarks instead backing up their incorrect and absurd posts.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40sc View Post
    On this an many other gun and carry related forums there are many questions posed about what is legal, what isn't, can I do this, and similar. In almost everyone of these threads the one constant answer is that you "don't ask a cop" because their response may or may not be correct, either through their ignorance of the law, or willful misleading answers, because they don't like the law.

    Thanks for your opinion, and I will follow your last advise, and do as I please.

    The pretty standard bill of sale I linked to is frequently recommended for private transactions. If the other party refused to complete their part completely, the deal is off, more of the "as I please" aspect.
    This is the way to go, the name of the game is cover your buns, period. It has nothing to do with whats legal or illegal here. If you are doing a private sale with someone you do not know or ever heard of, then I want to know as much as possible and have as many records as possible to show I did the transaction legally and thoroughly. Just in case that gun is used later on in a crime or the person despite having certain documents is not allowed to own a weapon. I mean 1% of chp holders in this state are convicted felons despite the stringent background checks.

    The end all be all is just go to a gun shop and have it transferred out of your name and into there's, problem solved.

    I will not even sell either if you do not have a valid ID proof of residence and a PPP or chp at least and even then I would still prefer a gun shop. Now I have bought weapons privately, but I still keep the persons name and address just in case and in fact still email quite a few every now and again because they may have something I want or vice versa.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dashowdy View Post
    This is the way to go, the name of the game is cover your buns, period. It has nothing to do with whats legal or illegal here. If you are doing a private sale with someone you do not know or ever heard of, then I want to know as much as possible and have as many records as possible to show I did the transaction legally and thoroughly. Just in case that gun is used later on in a crime or the person despite having certain documents is not allowed to own a weapon. I mean 1% of chp holders in this state are convicted felons despite the stringent background checks.

    The end all be all is just go to a gun shop and have it transferred out of your name and into there's, problem solved.

    I will not even sell either if you do not have a valid ID proof of residence and a PPP or chp at least and even then I would still prefer a gun shop. Now I have bought weapons privately, but I still keep the persons name and address just in case and in fact still email quite a few every now and again because they may have something I want or vice versa.
    I would like to have a cite for that "1% of CHP holders are convicted felons". in fact, they may not have been cleared of it, also they must have been convicted of a crime and not just arrested.

    how long have you had your FFDL?
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member Jamesm760's Avatar
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    Thanks for all of your replies... The guy was a noshow as soon as I mentioned bill of sale and me wanting to get basic information off of him. It's ok though, I just went to a gun and pawn instead and bought something else. (guess something was sketchy about the firearm after all)
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesm760 View Post
    Thanks for all of your replies... The guy was a noshow as soon as I mentioned bill of sale and me wanting to get basic information off of him. It's ok though, I just went to a gun and pawn instead and bought something else. (guess something was sketchy about the firearm after all)
    You have to go with your gut, but I would not give anything more than the law states. And AFAIK, the law only states you have to have a PPP, it does not even say you have to present it, just have it. In fact with a C&R license I can buy a handgun online without giving the dealer a PPP, again the law only states you have to have it. The only thing I would do if I do not know the source is get the serial number, and have the police run it, then ask for a hard copy if it is clean. That and a bill of sale would prove that a person did not buy a stolen firearm at the time of sale.

    If your seller had actually been a crook, I don't know whether he was or not, after YOU give him your information he comes back and steals the same gun from you. Fortunately there is little to worry about, after I started reading this thread and I started looking there seem to be no used guns by private sale in classifieds or the internet.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member Jamesm760's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post

    If your seller had actually been a crook, I don't know whether he was or not, after YOU give him your information he comes back and steals the same gun from you. Fortunately there is little to worry about, after I started reading this thread and I started looking there seem to be no used guns by private sale in classifieds or the internet.
    Actually http://www.armslist.com/ is a website for used firearm classifieds, and there are several facebook pages that allow firearm listings. (which is were I contacted him after he posted he had an LCP for sale).. After I asked if he was willing to provide some of his info for the bill of sale, he deleted his account... must have been a fake one. I had a bad feeling about buying a used firearm, but the price was decent for it, but never again will I attempt to obtain a used firearm... Unless it's from a person I know
    SIC VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesm760 View Post
    Actually http://www.armslist.com/ is a website for used firearm classifieds, and there are several facebook pages that allow firearm listings. (which is were I contacted him after he posted he had an LCP for sale).. After I asked if he was willing to provide some of his info for the bill of sale, he deleted his account... must have been a fake one. I had a bad feeling about buying a used firearm, but the price was decent for it, but never again will I attempt to obtain a used firearm... Unless it's from a person I know
    I have checked out that site before, a lot of pawn shop dealers. It may have been a fishy deal, but then if someone started asking me nosy questions I would ditch them to. Not saying your questions were nosy, but if I am selling a gun my personal information is not part of it until the deal, and then the information is only what is required by law. The only thing I would have asked for would be the serial number to have police run it. It could be you dodged a shady seller, or you could have just missed out on a good deal.

    Again no offense, but I would not do business with you based on what you have posted, just me but you are not entitled to my life history to buy or sell a piece of merchandise. You could have been a individual luring a victim to a jacking, or planning a burglary while the person thought they were meeting for a sale. Things that happen commonly with Craigslist, and other online sale sites.

    BTW if you go to the gunshop to transfer a firearm from a private sale, most likely you still are not going to get that privy information. The gunshop has no obligation, and in fact has to follow federal laws on giving out that information.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 05-26-2013 at 05:12 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member Jamesm760's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I have checked out that site before, a lot of pawn shop dealers. It may have been a fishy deal, but then if someone started asking me nosy questions I would ditch them to. Not saying your questions were nosy, but if I am selling a gun my personal information is not part of it until the deal, and then the information is only what is required by law. The only thing I would have asked for would be the serial number to have police run it. It could be you dodged a shady seller, or you could have just missed out on a good deal.

    Again no offense, but I would not do business with you based on what you have posted, just me but you are not entitled to my life history to buy or sell a piece of merchandise. You could have been a individual luring a victim to a jacking, or planning a burglary while the person thought they were meeting for a sale. Things that happen commonly with Craigslist, and other online sale sites.

    BTW if you go to the gunshop to transfer a firearm from a private sale, most likely you still are not going to get that privy information. The gunshop has no obligation, and in fact has to follow federal laws on giving out that information.
    Agree with you %100. What I didn't mention is that I was clear about only wanting his info once we met face to face, for the bill of sale. I was also clear that if he did not feel comfortable giving me his private info, I was willing to pay for a transfer at an FFL. I would have same thoughts as you, and gave him different options, and he still did not respond back and then later deleted his account (or blocked me). I'm not a hard person to deal with, I just don't trust anyone and I like to cover my a$$ as much as possible. Doesn't matter anymore though, like I said before, I rather pay couple extra bucks and get it brand new.
    SIC VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    I would like to have a cite for that "1% of CHP holders are convicted felons". in fact, they may not have been cleared of it, also they must have been convicted of a crime and not just arrested.

    how long have you had your FFDL?
    A little off 200 of the 2400 were convicted felons the rest I believe were applicable misdemeanors for disqualification but somehow they made it through the system.

    here ya go.
    http://www.chetson.com/2011/12/conce...orth-carolina/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesm760 View Post
    Agree with you %100. What I didn't mention is that I was clear about only wanting his info once we met face to face, for the bill of sale. I was also clear that if he did not feel comfortable giving me his private info, I was willing to pay for a transfer at an FFL. I would have same thoughts as you, and gave him different options, and he still did not respond back and then later deleted his account (or blocked me). I'm not a hard person to deal with, I just don't trust anyone and I like to cover my a$$ as much as possible. Doesn't matter anymore though, like I said before, I rather pay couple extra bucks and get it brand new.
    Used is great if your getting an awesome deal, but nothing better than brand spanking new if you can swing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dashowdy View Post
    This is the way to go, the name of the game is cover your buns, period. It has nothing to do with whats legal or illegal here. If you are doing a private sale with someone you do not know or ever heard of, then I want to know as much as possible and have as many records as possible to show I did the transaction legally and thoroughly. Just in case that gun is used later on in a crime or the person despite having certain documents is not allowed to own a weapon...
    Why would you want someone you don't know, nor have ever heard of to have your private info? You think this stranger could possibly do something bad with your firearm down the road, so you trust them with private information you weren't required to give them to begin with? I'd let them give me all the info they want to give, but they're only getting what is required. I don't want to get a call from a credit card company (that I do not do business with) calling to question the random purchase "I" made somewhere in Italy..

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