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Thread: Front Sight training

  1. #1
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Front Sight training

    (THIS FUNDRAISING EFFORT FOR AZCDL HAS BEEN APPROVED BY THE FORUM ADMINISTRATOR AND IS NOT SPAM)

    For those interested, AzCDL is taking advantage of a Front Sight offer and we have a limited number of Front Sight Diamond Life Memberships available at our online store. Net proceeds benefit AzCDL.

    Fred

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Edited - *
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 09-26-2014 at 10:42 PM. Reason: due diligence is required
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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Due diligence...

    Front Sight memberships are only available to those who are not existing Front Sight members.

    Front Sight has prerequisites for advanced courses. Regardless of any training you have received from other places, you cannot bypass Front Sight's perquisites of taking their entry level courses.

    Also for most advanced classes, you must score "Distinguished" (80%) or better on the skills test at the end of the entry level or "skill builder" classes.

    Some courses like the Instructor class and the Combat Master Prep class require you to take the skills test and get a Distinguished rating the morning of the first day of class. Been there. Done that.

    Fred

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Front Sight training

    Or put another way ...be prepared to spend at minimum a week in the area. The course you may want to take may only be a day or two long, however the prerequisite course ( many classes have them) may not be available in the same week. So schedule wisely, or do a lot of traveling... . That being said, this is good deal on a usually very expensive membership.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 10-15-2014 at 09:44 PM.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Wish I had seen this months ago. Want to add a little info to what FreeInAZ said.
    I have been at Front Sight several times. Its only 18 mile away. 99% of the people I talk to are out of state many of them come every year. With training near most that shoot making the trip to Front Sight shows how much they like Front Sight training.
    Some weekends they will have over 1000 students the place is huge and there is no waiting if you need a little one on one with an instructor. The training goes like clockwork. Very little down time from training. Family friendly no drill sergeant type training.

    I checked out the AzCDL store a real bargain for the memberships. For the first visits best to plan doing the non-perquisites classes. Skill test are done during the four day classes a passing grade is needed for the advance classes. Non-perquisites classed are, four and two day defensive hand gun classes. Two and four day M16. Two and four day practical rifle. Tactical Shotgun is two and four day. They have youth safety, Rope and rappel, Hand to hand, Edge weapons. I believe they are all two day.

    They supply the targets, tape, chairs, shade, drinking water and great training. The only camping they have is a large hard pack dirt lot with no services. During the cooler months there is always a few camping. Pahrump Nv 18 miles away has everything, RV parking and resorts, hotels, Wall-mart, Casinos.

    There is a $50 charge for a background check for each student. Does not matter if they have had one or law enforcement. Everyone gets a background check. The check is once a year good from Jan 1 to the next Jan 1.

    At one of the training I was at there was a lady who had never shot she was in her late 50s. She rented everything, gun, holster, ear protection. At first she could hardly pull the slid back. At the end of 4 days she was pulling the firearm out of the holster putting a controlled pair in the kill zone in just over 3 seconds at 30 feet.

    Here is the amazing thing on the weekends with 1000 student’s people everywhere carrying guns. The rule is the firearms have been cleared of their mags and ammo unless on the range, however everyone has them on them. Guns, rifles ammo carried by 1000 people at the same place. Men, Woman, and kids. No one is shot. No nasty guns that jumps out of their hiding place and without any influence from a human start shooting at people. No arguments over parking spaces, People leave their stuff at the range during lunch time no one bothers it. I talk to one of the main ammo suppliers for Front Sight he estimates there is around one million rounds fired at Front Sight a month on the busy months. How would the antis explain that? Million rounds fired no one shot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    .

    There is a $50 charge for a background check for each student. Does not matter if they have had one or law enforcement. Everyone gets a background check. The check is once a year good from Jan 1 to the next Jan 1.
    Interesting I wonder what law enforcement agency is doing this for them or what system they are using.

    Using any of the government systems except those open to public access would most likely be a violation of those systems for this purpose.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-29-2015 at 10:28 AM. Reason: fixed quote box
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    What's in a fee-paid background check?

    "Hey, Joe, look'it this one! He couldn't even spell his username right. Do we need him?"
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    I'm a fan of FrontSight. Take the Uzi class if you get a chance. Controlled pair to controlled mag dump.
    I have really enjoyed every class there. Pistol, pistol skill builder, tactical rifle, Uzi, and night pistol most recently. I'm a pretty good shooter, but haven't DGed (the aforementioned Distinguished Graduate) due to malfunction drills... I shoot reliable guns with reliable ammo and just don't practice these things. They will walk you through them the first day, practice in your hotel room every night and you'll be fine. Also, you only get the skills test in the four day classes and not in the night classes (held only in July).
    And yes, I do have memberships to sell ;-)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    What's in a fee-paid background check?

    "Hey, Joe, look'it this one! He couldn't even spell his username right. Do we need him?"
    Are you referring to my post? If so can you clarify?

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    To be clear, no and no.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    [QUOTE=Firearms Iinstuctor;2169494]
    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    .

    There is a $50 charge for a background check for each student. Does not matter if they have had one or law enforcement. Everyone gets a background check. The check is once a year good from Jan 1 to the next Jan 1.

    QUOTE]

    Interesting I wonder what law enforcement agency is doing this for them or what system they are using.

    Using any of the government systems except those open to public access would most likely be a violation of those systems for this purpose.
    Give them a call and ask. During the day there is always someone to answer the phone and questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    To be clear, no and no.
    It is clear rereading it after a good night sleep. That’s what I get for doing this stuff after a long day and little sleep.

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    Wonder why you need to ID yourself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Wonder why you need to ID yourself?
    Not sure however I believe Front Sight has been around for 18 years. In recent years often over 1000 gun carrying students at one time with a very good safety record. Some of the rules come from incidences that have happened or near misses. One such rule is no reloads. Most that reload are and conceders themselves as reload experts however we all know and heard of a reload clown scientist. Early on they had one student that was using his reloads and destroyed his gun standing at the line with other shooters. Luckily no one was injured they gave him talking to about not using his reloads rented him another gun. At some point the guy decided to try his reloads again and blew up the rented gun. Again luckily no one was injured. He now owned two broken firearms and his training was over and a new rule for Front Sight, no reloads. I guess with the potential of have one clown willing to endanger others for any number of unsafe reasons it wouldn’t hurt to know who they are. Obviously you are a very active knowable poster call Front Sight and ask them. Might be a BS covers all answer or an answer that makes since.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    (THIS FUNDRAISING EFFORT FOR AZCDL HAS BEEN APPROVED BY THE FORUM ADMINISTRATOR AND IS NOT SPAM)

    For those interested, AzCDL is taking advantage of a Front Sight offer and we have a limited number of Front Sight Diamond Life Memberships available at our online store. Net proceeds benefit AzCDL.

    Fred
    How many students have they killed this year?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    How many students have they killed this year?
    Now that is a value added question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    How many students have they killed this year?

    Firearms training/use is very safe the percentage of people killed or hurt are very low.

    Of course when one is responsibly one is too many.

    Front Sight does a very good job in the market they have developed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    How many students have they killed this year?
    None. The scheme they use actually makes me feel fairly safe whilst there. The videos don't do it justice. There are instructors behind the line. On the line, people are paired up, one shooting and one coaching. The coach does things like stopping a muzzle from sweeping right or left and reminding the shooter of things missed in the steps they want followed.
    The instructors are constantly scanning for things and are very quick to respond. (If something did go very wrong inside a student's head, the instructors carry loaded and are all very fast on the draw. As far as I know, that's never been needed.)
    In most classes, the ratio is something like 20 on the line, 20 coaching (or reloading, getting water, or putting in sunscreen), and 5-7 instructors. No fewer than three instructors doing nothing but watching the line while the other may be doing 1-on-1, clearing malfunctions, or answering questions.


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    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    <snip> Obviously you are a very active knowable poster call Front Sight and ask them. .
    702.837.7433

    I called them ^^^.

    Asked if I could take courses anonymously. Nope --- BR chk required.

    Why? They could not explain the policy to my satisfaction.

    I don't assume that just because a person is in the gun business that they are pro-gun. I have talked to many antis who are FFLs...its a businesses and they are able to have anti-leanings and still be in the business.

    Not one word about "safety" was said by the company during my call.

    Suffice it to say that they will not allow anyone who refuses to be subjected to a BR chk to participate in most of their classes.

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    Front Sight has a very good business model.

    $50.00 x thousands of students per year = lots of dollars

    Good bad or otherwise that is one of the costs if one wants to attend their training.

    Being a well credentialed instructor I can offer very similar training one on one or one on 2 or 3 for a very reasonable fee.

    I have set up, ran and instructed courses when we had many 10s of students. Not that one can not get good instruction in a large class.

    It is a different dynamic then individual or one on two or 3 students.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 11-30-2015 at 03:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Wonder why you need to ID yourself?
    You mean BESIDES the private property and private business owner making it a requirement. No one is required to conduct any business with them and if you desire to obtain the product they offer then you gotta comply with their requirements!
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Wonder why you need to ID yourself?
    i wonder what is done with the data collected from their customers? what criteria is the citizen adjudicated against to validate they qualify to 'take a course'?

    citizens whine when we must show our ID to TSA, nice LE, ad nauseam....yet here is a private business entity asking for and being handing, by the law biding and gun toting citizen, their personal and private background information without hesitation?

    where is the data going, how is it being stored, and so forth, etc., however, no forum member has asked this question...

    interesting.

    ipse
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    i wonder what is done with the data collected from their customers? what criteria is the citizen adjudicated against to validate they qualify to 'take a course'?

    citizens whine when we must show our ID to TSA, nice LE, ad nauseam....yet here is a private business entity asking for and being handing, by the law biding and gun toting citizen, their personal and private background information without hesitation?

    where is the data going, how is it being stored, and so forth, etc., however, no forum member has asked this question...

    interesting.

    ipse
    I've asked what they do with the info. They keep it. They promise not to share the info..but its really just a non-binding promise.

    You can call them yourself and confirm the information. Me? No ID for TSA, LEO w/o arrest (I don't carry an ID with me anyway), and I will not be spending my not-hard earned dollars with places that require me to show ID.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    702.837.7433

    I called them ^^^.

    Asked if I could take courses anonymously. Nope --- BR chk required.

    Why? They could not explain the policy to my satisfaction.

    I don't assume that just because a person is in the gun business that they are pro-gun. I have talked to many antis who are FFLs...its a businesses and they are able to have anti-leanings and still be in the business.

    Not one word about "safety" was said by the company during my call.

    Suffice it to say that they will not allow anyone who refuses to be subjected to a BR chk to participate in most of their classes.
    I was not trying to be a smart a$$ with my statement of Obviously you are a very active knowable poster call Front Sight and ask them. Thanks for sharing the info. Not the answer you wanted however it was an answer. Sounds like mostly a runaround answer. Not one word about safety as a reason. Interesting as it is one of the main subject during training.

  25. #25
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    I was not trying to be a smart a$$ with my statement of Obviously you are a very active knowable poster call Front Sight and ask them. Thanks for sharing the info. Not the answer you wanted however it was an answer. Sounds like mostly a runaround answer. Not one word about safety as a reason. Interesting as it is one of the main subject during training.
    of course safety is one of the main subjects during training...first, they already have all your personal data, your money, and...
    oh, wait a moment...don't the nice LEs also have the courts convinced everything they do to a citizen is for the nice LE's safety?

    where was i....

    ipse
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