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Thread: Sign at Virginia Beach PD Office

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Sign at Virginia Beach PD Office

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ID:	10437 I saw this sign today when I went to turn in my CHP application. I didn't disarm. Is this sign even legal?
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    visitor?

    So are you considered a visitor if your just going inside to the clerks desk?

  3. #3
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    The key word is "ASK".
    They can ask what they want.
    No, it's not legal to require it in the non secure public areas but again, they're only asking.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
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ID:	10437 I saw this sign today when I went to turn in my CHP application. I didn't disarm. Is this sign even legal?
    Why would you go to the police dept instead of the Circuit Court to turn in your CHP application?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Why would you go to the police dept instead of the Circuit Court to turn in your CHP application?
    Because he could OC while turning it in

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    cause

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Why would you go to the police dept instead of the Circuit Court to turn in your CHP application?
    cause thats how VaBch does it..........

  7. #7
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Sign at Virginia Beach PD Office

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Why would you go to the police dept instead of the Circuit Court to turn in your CHP application?
    Virginia Beach offers the option of turning it in at either location. I chose to go to the PD because I can OC there... Or so I thought. Lol
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  8. #8
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Sign at Virginia Beach PD Office

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Because he could OC while turning it in
    Ah you beat me to it!
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    skidmark walks into the VBPD and walks up to the desk officer in the lobby: "Where do I check out a cop?"

    DO: Huh?
    s: Your sign outside says to inform you that I can't secure my firearm in my car. Well, without a cop standing guard over it my firearm wouldn't be very secure in my vehicle while I'm in here, would it? So, what do I have to do to check out a cop to guard my firearm?
    DO: ::facepalm:: ::headdesk:: :very heavy sigh:: OK, just go ahead and do what you came here to do. Just please leave me alone. OK?
    s: So, I don't get to check out a cop?
    DO: ::facepalm:: ::headdesk:: :very heavy sigh::
    s: (under his breath) You try to follow the rules they make up and what do you get for it?


    stay safe.
    Last edited by skidmark; 05-17-2013 at 01:15 PM.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    IMHO, this sign needs to come down or be drastically altered.

    They can probably ASK anything they want, as noted earlier.

    But when they go further to, in what my opinion is "command you", to inform them if you are carrying, that crosses the line in violation of an administrative action regulating the carry of a firearm.

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    IMHO, this sign needs to come down or be drastically altered.

    They can probably ASK anything they want, as noted earlier.

    But when they go further to, in what my opinion is "command you", to inform them if you are carrying, that crosses the line in violation of an administrative action regulating the carry of a firearm.

    TFred
    The sign is illegal.

    Planning, ordering, installing the sign all required administrative action.

    A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+15.2-915
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-17-2013 at 02:38 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Sign at Virginia Beach PD Office

    So to whom do I have to speak with to get the sign removed?
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  13. #13
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    So to whom do I have to speak with to get the sign removed?
    You could try the Chief of PD, but I think you might have better luck with the County Attorney. If the doesn't work there is always the City Council.

    I would go armed with the preemption code section and point out nicely where attorney's fees and costs can be recovered. The GA obviously did not want to leave any wiggle room on this to local municipalities.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Sign at Virginia Beach PD Office

    Awesome. I'll call Monday morning and try to speak with Chief
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  15. #15
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Sign at Virginia Beach PD Office

    The Chief*
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  16. #16
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    Sign at Virginia Beach PD Office

    So I'm just curious as to how this is seen as an illegal sign... It says that they ask for you to leave your firearm in your vehicle... They can ask me all I want but it won't happen. Now the please advise the D.O. I guess could be seen as a demand but to me still sounds like a request which I don't have to comply with. I say all of this but I h e been up for over 24hrs. Thanks

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDS45 View Post
    So I'm just curious as to how this is seen as an illegal sign... It says that they ask for you to leave your firearm in your vehicle... They can ask me all I want but it won't happen. Now the please advise the D.O. I guess could be seen as a demand but to me still sounds like a request which I don't have to comply with. I say all of this but I h e been up for over 24hrs. Thanks
    More to the point - what would the average person think in reading the sign. The sign is deliberately misleading, it gives a false impression.

    To repeat the important part of the Code of Virginia: no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action..............other than those expressly authorized by statute.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+15.2-915
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  18. #18
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    Sign at Virginia Beach PD Office

    Thank you Grapeshot didn't think about it that way, but yes it probably would be misleading to most that read it.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The sign is illegal.

    Planning, ordering, installing the sign all required administrative action.
    Yes, doing all those things require administrative action, but the administrative action is to create and erect the sign. No administrative action was taken to

    ... adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425,
    And no agent took any administrative action governing
    the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+15.2-915
    As has been noted several times, they ask you to choose Option #1 or Option #2. Asking aint governing.

    You might find it more comfortable if you untwisted your panties.

    As for the contention that the average, unsophisticaded citizen reading that sign might interpret it to mean they could not take their handgun into the police station - you are probably correct. Unfortunately, the law looks to what a "reasonable" person would do - clearly indicating that the pereson seeing the sign can reason (a high-faluting word for "think") - which lets the average, unsophisticated citizen out of consideration, more's the pity.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  20. #20
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Sign at Virginia Beach PD Office

    Just spoke to Sgt Minehan, VBPD, and he said "the building is owned by the city, so just like movie theaters can ban weapons, so can we" (paraphrase). I said no sir, that is not the case, let me read you the code. He interrupted, and said he is not going to argue with me, and that is the policy.

    Oh boy.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    Just spoke to Sgt Minehan, VBPD, and he said "the building is owned by the city, so just like movie theaters can ban weapons, so can we" (paraphrase). I said no sir, that is not the case, let me read you the code. He interrupted, and said he is not going to argue with me, and that is the policy.

    Oh boy.
    Send him a witten request, ask him to restate that conversation - maybe that will give them enough rope.

    You do know that you can record telephone conversation where you are one of the parties in Va., right?
    http://www.pimall.com/nais/n.tel.tape.law.html

    http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/virginia-recording-law
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Sign at Virginia Beach PD Office

    Can you give me an example how to properly phrase that letter?
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  23. #23
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Sign at Virginia Beach PD Office

    Also, I have a witness to the conversation. I had my phone on speaker and Courtney was right there.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  24. #24
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    Can you give me an example how to properly phrase that letter?
    I'm rapidly running out of time for this week-end = GOP Convention and related. Might have time later tonight - if not will try to do something early next week.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Sign at Virginia Beach PD Office

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I'm rapidly running out of time for this week-end = GOP Convention and related. Might have time later tonight - if not will try to do something early next week.
    Thank you bunches! I'm wondering if I should call to schedule an appointment to speak with the police chief himself?
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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