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Sign at Virginia Beach PD Office

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
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earth's crust
This ^^

I spoke to the city attorney's office, and recorded the conversation. This is edited to leave out my phone number. :uhoh:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_j8D_sSkyaFSzJFNjVteFBRRlE/edit?usp=sharing

No sign-up needed :D


You did not act crazy enough lol .... but I was able to download it ... and I have no FB, twitter, etc account

Courtesy sign? I'm not courteous ... any law requiring me to be?

Security reason? oh boy...

I would put up a sign on public land noting that the sign is meaningless ... then video tape them knocking it down...
 

Esanders2008

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
576
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
You did not act crazy enough lol .... but I was able to download it ... and I have no FB, twitter, etc account

Courtesy sign? I'm not courteous ... any law requiring me to be?

Security reason? oh boy...

I would put up a sign on public land noting that the sign is meaningless ... then video tape them knocking it down...

I'm sure deep in the code there is a section requiring permits for sign or something that would prohibit that course of action. If not... Well that is a different story lol
 

peter nap

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Valhalla
I'm sure deep in the code there is a section requiring permits for sign or something that would prohibit that course of action. If not... Well that is a different story lol

If you put it up....Grapeshot will take it to the dump!:lol:
 

Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
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Valhalla
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Esanders2008

I'm sure deep in the code there is a section requiring permits for sign or something that would prohibit that course of action. If not... Well that is a different story lol
If you put it up....Grapeshot will take it to the dump!:lol:
Been there, done that! :)

The sign ordinances can be very difficult to get together collectively - they are generally scattered about in different sections, though there are a few concentrations in zoning and inspection.
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
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3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
But when they go further to, in what my opinion is "command you", to inform them if you are carrying, that crosses the line in violation of an administrative action regulating the carry of a firearm.TFred

If you walk in with a weapon exposed for all to see, would this be considered "notice" or do I have to walk up to the desk and "announce" that I have a weapon?
 

wrearick

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
650
Location
Virginia Beach, Va.
...If I were to leave my firearm in my vehicle, there' really no way that I can make it "secure". I can meet the letter of the law, sure, but even if I have a safe bolted .....

And right there (bold added by me) is the crux of the issue. The sign is deceptive in that it looks like, smells like, reads like a LAW and it is not. However, common folks will read it and feel obliged to conform to it and as you so rightly point out, attempt to comply with this request can be more dangerous than leaving the weapon holstered at your hip. JMHO
 

wylde007

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Jan 23, 2009
Messages
3,035
Location
Va Beach, Occupied VA
"Jail" is a whole different thing. In VA BH the precincts have "holding" areas which are secure rooms where a suspect can be held (the HQ inside of building 11 is also the First Precinct). Those are secure areas and you're not getting into the area that leads to those while carrying a weapon.
How often have you been to the Admin Building? I've been. I've been "behind" the scenes while armed. There is no "holding" area at the Police Admin building. The Admin Building is where property and evidence is located, but there is no "secure" area where they bring prisoners. Processing and magistrate are over at the City Jail and have always been as long as I can remember.
Short version is that "jail" isn't an issue with precincts, but they each have secure areas that restrict weapons.
For the life of me, I cannot locate the statute which provides for this restriction.

Can you cite it for posterity?
 

paramedic70002

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
1,440
Location
Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
Sorta OT:

I used to respond to the jail in Suffolk on a regular basis as EMS. Never had a problem walking into the jail without a search or even being asked about any weapons, inclduding the knives we all had clipped to our pants pockets.

So much for a secure area...
 

Glockster

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Dec 24, 2010
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Location
Houston
How often have you been to the Admin Building? I've been. I've been "behind" the scenes while armed. There is no "holding" area at the Police Admin building. The Admin Building is where property and evidence is located, but there is no "secure" area where they bring prisoners. Processing and magistrate are over at the City Jail and have always been as long as I can remember.For the life of me, I cannot locate the statute which provides for this restriction.

Can you cite it for posterity?

Building 11 is not the "admin building" though. It is a building where the Chief's office/staff is located which includes all of the "HQ" functions, all three division staff, and nearly all the special units. They do also have the records, crime reporting, logistics, and property/evidence units there. But it is also the location of the First Precinct. Each precinct has a holding area but please note above that I didn't say that it was used for "prisoners" as I said suspects. A prisoner is a different thing from a suspect that is being interviewed. That is done in holding rooms. I have seen the ones at the 2nd, 3rd and 4th. I have been to quite a few "behind the scenes" things there, and quite a few meetings (and have even been to the Chief's office), and have had a full tour of the building as part of Citizen's Police Academy. I admit that I don't recall if I actually toured a holding room for First Precinct (that I can recall) but I take their word for it as the Chief's office stated that they have one there (that was said during lecture when I attended the Citizen's Police Academy -- which was held in yet another building where they have a sign, but if memory serves me that particular sign outright prohibits weapons being brought in). So I have no reason to disbelieve the Chief's office (and it may have even been the Chief himself who said it) about the First Precinct. But as part of ride alongs at the other precincts I have seen those rooms at other precincts.

Regarding city jail -- there actually isn't a Virginia Beach City "jail." The Virginia Beach Sheriff's Office operates the Virginia Beach Correctional Center (VBCC). They're independent from the City, and the Sheriff is a constitutional officer. So they handle all in-processing as Virginia Beach City doesn't have its own "jail." The magistrates are an entirely separate entity, and are separate constitutional officers, and in 2010 the magistrates offices were moved from the secure area of the VBCC.


Regarding any "cite" for their restrictions -- you misunderstand, I'm not claiming that there IS one. I'm simply reporting what I have myself seen first hand. Rather, my issue is that there ARE NOT applicable statutes being cited by VA BH.
 

Wolf_shadow

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Jul 5, 2006
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Accomac, Virginia, USA
"Jail" is a whole different thing. In VA BH the precincts have "holding" areas which are secure rooms where a suspect can be held (the HQ inside of building 11 is also the First Precinct). Those are secure areas and you're not getting into the area that leads to those while carrying a weapon. And then there is the equipment checkout area - that is also a secure area. And I've never tried it as you have to agree to disarm as a condition for ride-alongs (so I then don't have my weapon anyway), but I believe that the inside the fence area where the patrol cars are kept and readied for shifts are probably considered as secure areas. Short version is that "jail" isn't an issue with precincts, but they each have secure areas that restrict weapons.
IANAL but it is my contention that any area that an police officer does not have to secure his/her firearm I shouldn't!
 

TFred

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Oct 13, 2008
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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
IANAL but it is my contention that any area that an police officer does not have to secure his/her firearm I shouldn't!
And this is just a subset of the overall point that every pro-gun-rights person should use at every opportunity:

Any place where it is possible for a criminal to take a gun, a law-abiding citizen should also be able to take a gun.

Until you can prove that there are no cops who are criminals, that would equally apply to this particular situation.

TFred
 

Citizen

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Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
"Jail" is a whole different thing. In VA BH the precincts have "holding" areas which are secure rooms where a suspect can be held (the HQ inside of building 11 is also the First Precinct). Those are secure areas and you're not getting into the area that leads to those while carrying a weapon. And then there is the equipment checkout area - that is also a secure area. And I've never tried it as you have to agree to disarm as a condition for ride-alongs (so I then don't have my weapon anyway), but I believe that the inside the fence area where the patrol cars are kept and readied for shifts are probably considered as secure areas. Short version is that "jail" isn't an issue with precincts, but they each have secure areas that restrict weapons.

(chuckle)

Wanta know what I think about that? Oh, you do? Thanks, glad you asked.


Government lies to others about my consent in the biggest way possible, and about mine to others: "we the people" and "consent of the governed."

Government uses this convenient lie "that my consent to be governed" by them "is presumed".

The lie is proved when, by withholding my consent to participate and be governed, for example by not paying taxes, I and others are kidnapped and jailed.


Go ahead. Ask me whether I would be willing to lie to a government agent about my consent to disarm as a condition of a ride-along. They lie to me and others about the biggest consent of all involving government. Just take a guess about whether I would be willing to return the favor.
 
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VanillaBK

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
44
Location
Idaho
Yeah. I'm trying to figure out my next course of action

Maybe follow up with a phone call inquiring if they received the written request, if/when they say they haven't ask for a fax# and contact. Send fax and card.

Repeat this once a week on fridays until you receive confirmation and contact person.

Just brainstorming with you.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
 
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