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Thread: HIGHER STANDARDS for LEO

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    Regular Member 2OLD2W8's Avatar
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    HIGHER STANDARDS for LEO

    Food for thought....


    Should all the certified and accredited law enforcement academies in this state operate under a system similar to the Sunshine Law of Florida that is used for our government officials? Should all of the training our future LEO receive be videotaped and available for the citizens of Florida to view? Or maybe just the classroom instruction on Florida law and U.S. civil rights law. I don't think that is too much to ask of our institutions.

    I hope the institutions are instructing these future LEO students with the end goal to be lawful enforcement officers. But how do we really know? The cynical man in my head tends to believe the opposite. Should we be skeptical of the motives, intent and instruction that may be taking place in these institutions?

    There seems to be an awful lot of LEO that think they are above the law! Is there a fox in the hen house? Do we really know what is going on in these classrooms? Should we bring the training out of the dark shadows?
    Last edited by 2OLD2W8; 05-18-2013 at 06:19 PM.

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    Say goodbye to undercover LEOS if this occurs.

    CCJ

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    Regular Member 2OLD2W8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Say goodbye to undercover LEOS if this occurs.

    CCJ
    Train the video camera on the instructor, my main concern is insuring the information being disseminated is correct and lawful. I,m not after the individual LEO, no need to identify the student. I want some oversight and control over the system and what is being taught.

    This oversight will be another tool to help keep in check any possible abuse, to keep misinformation from being taught and used as a tactic to control us and violate our rights.

    Video cameras are used against citizens daily in the pursuit of justice. We can use this tool to help bring some checks and balance back to the people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    Food for thought....


    Should all the certified and accredited law enforcement academies in this state operate under a system similar to the Sunshine Law of Florida that is used for our government officials? Should all of the training our future LEO receive be videotaped and available for the citizens of Florida to view? Or maybe just the classroom instruction on Florida law and U.S. civil rights law. I don't think that is too much to ask of our institutions.

    I hope the institutions are instructing these future LEO students with the end goal to be lawful enforcement officers. But how do we really know? The cynical man in my head tends to believe the opposite. Should we be skeptical of the motives, intent and instruction that may be taking place in these institutions?

    There seems to be an awful lot of LEO that think they are above the law! Is there a fox in the hen house? Do we really know what is going on in these classrooms? Should we bring the training out of the dark shadows?
    Read my signature. /thread
    "Sovereign Immunity derives from the common law belief that the king and his agents can do no wrong." - Florida State Law Enforcement Curriculum, Chapter 1 of the text book

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Say goodbye to undercover LEOS if this occurs.

    CCJ
    Just curious.....are people hired and trained as undercover officers, or is this something they become later in their career? What I'm wondering is, if the undercover officer has had ANY exposure, in uniform to the general public, would he not be already "made" by anyone with as much situational awareness as the average house plant?

    The undercover cop thing is it's own can of worms, IMO. Not sure how many arrests are made as the result of undercover cops that couldn't have been made with uniformed police.
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    In the PD with which I was associated, my closest acquaintance went UC for some years after his patrolman tour. He was not always with his department, but worked for the state and the feds. I would not have recognized him by appearance alone. He gave up his social circle. ATM he is command staff, two peers with different career paths have made chief. It wouldn't surprise me if he saw himself more valuable in training and policy than chief.

    That department is so different from the ones I see in the news and here. I can't believe what is commonly tolerated in cops. I watched patrolmen censured and fired for what y'all regard as peccadilloes. One of his accomplishments was overseeing the department's accreditation by CALEA.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I could write volumes on this one... Logged in just to say how shocked I am that someone actually thinks FL LEOs aren't gods... They seem to think they are, and corruption in the Academies is the rule not the exception...
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Most large entities should have a watchdog, companies have the people who do business with them. But gov officials do not answer to the public unfortunately. There was a time before 9/11 when the FBI was the watchdog of local and state police. Homeland security destroyed that with making the agencies linked to the federal government. We should, not just the gun community, all push for a citizen run watchdog organization which would have some powers to hold police and government accountable. That should be the ACLU, but their agenda is not really civil liberties, but pushing the progressive agenda. If the FBI could be pushed into doing it's job properly, police would be forced to act properly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    Food for thought....


    Should all the certified and accredited law enforcement academies in this state operate under a system similar to the Sunshine Law of Florida that is used for our government officials? Should all of the training our future LEO receive be videotaped and available for the citizens of Florida to view? Or maybe just the classroom instruction on Florida law and U.S. civil rights law. I don't think that is too much to ask of our institutions.

    I hope the institutions are instructing these future LEO students with the end goal to be lawful enforcement officers. But how do we really know? The cynical man in my head tends to believe the opposite. Should we be skeptical of the motives, intent and instruction that may be taking place in these institutions?

    There seems to be an awful lot of LEO that think they are above the law! Is there a fox in the hen house? Do we really know what is going on in these classrooms? Should we bring the training out of the dark shadows?
    I'm not so sure it would help.

    First, I've already seen CALEA ignore extensive evidence of police abuse. I'm convinced the accreditation game is little more than a gimmick to reduce municipal insurance rates. CALEAs website used to advertise on this point, maybe still does. Get your cops accredited and you can "prove" you did not have an unwritten policy of rights violations like he committed. Even if your internal affairs unit comes up with facially absurd explanations for what didn't happen during the rights violation. CALEA is a business. Its not interested in revoking accreditation; your customer--the PD and municipality--aren't going to pay you for ongoing services if you are not providing ongoing services.

    Also, even if the curriculum and the instructors are squeeky clean, the field training officer can take care of inculcating all the rights violation tricks like phrasing an ID demand as a request but still using an official, demanding tone of voice to cover for the fact there is no RAS. Or, running the serial number of all guns encountered during traffic stops just because. The tricks, cheesy tactics, and badgering to get a driver to consent to a search in the absence of probable cause. Etc, etc, etc.

    It wouldn't hurt to bring the pressure, though. There may still be some benefit. If nothing else, a plaintiff's attorney can show the curriculum to prove the rights violator was trained in the proper approach.
    Last edited by Citizen; 05-28-2013 at 12:14 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    First, I've already seen CALEA ignore extensive evidence of police abuse.
    That's not how it works and never has. CALEA provides best policies and accredits based on their implementation, not enforcement.
    Since the first CALEA Accreditation Award was granted in 1984, the program has become the primary method for an agency to voluntarily demonstrate their commitment to excellence in law enforcement. The standards upon which the Law Enforcement Accreditation Program is based reflect the current thinking and experience of law enforcement practitioners and researchers. Major law enforcement associations, leading educational and training institutions, governmental agencies, as well as law enforcement executives internationally, acknowledge CALEA’s Standards for Law Enforcement Agencies© and its Accreditation Programs as benchmarks for professional law enforcement agencies.

    CALEA Accreditation requires an agency to develop a comprehensive, well thought out, uniform set of written directives. This is one of the most successful methods for reaching administrative and operational goals, while also providing direction to personnel.
    CALEA Accreditation standards provide the necessary reports and analyses a CEO needs to make fact-based, informed management decisions.
    CALEA Accreditation requires a preparedness program be put in place—so an agency is ready to address natural or man-made unusual occurrences.
    CALEA Accreditation is a means for developing or improving upon an agency’s relationship with the community.
    CALEA Accreditation strengthens an agency’s accountability, both within the agency and the community, through a continuum of standards that clearly define authority, performance, and responsibilities.
    Being CALEA Accredited can limit an agency’s liability and risk exposure because it demonstrates that internationally recognized standards for law enforcement have been met, as verified by a team of independent outside CALEA-trained assessors.
    CALEA Accreditation facilitates an agency’s pursuit of professional excellence. http://www.calea.org/content/law-enf...-accreditation
    Last edited by Nightmare; 05-28-2013 at 12:40 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    That's not how it works and never has. CALEA provides best policies and accredits based on their implementation, not enforcement.
    I'm sorry. I wasn't specific enough.

    I have seen CALEA renew an PD's accreditation despite extensive evidence of that PD's recent rights violations, and failure to follow policies and procedures set out in the accreditation standards. CALEA can hardly claim its best practices and procedures were implemented. Especially if command did nothing to enforce the standards and procedures in question.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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