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Thread: The UnMarch on DC

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    The UnMarch on DC

    It has been proposed that an alternative to Kokesh's "armed revolt" be staged in protest of DC's gun ban.

    This thread is to spitball ideas and form a grassroots movement to organize such a rally. I only have two requirements:

    1. No one is in charge. This must be grassroots.
    2. We must collectively decide not to deliberately break any laws--not even unconstitutional ones.

    Feel free to ignore my requirements. That is the nature of grassroots. I just won't participate if laws are to be broken or a Kokesh-wannabe takes over.

    Start spitballin"!


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    Regular Member HP995's Avatar
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    I believe a fairly large peaceful march, with no one arrested or hurt, and everything nice, would be very helpful to force the public and media to see typical gun owner activities as they are.

    Since DC has commie pinko gun laws, and since "We love guns" T shirts aren't going to make front page news by themselves, how about the marchers being armed with toy guns placed in the best possible holsters, and real gear and accessories if possible?

    (Whatever toy guns are legal, the best looking ones legally possible, but a squirt gun or Hello Kitty bubble street sweeper is better than nothing.)

    That way it could look like an armed march, and indeed it would be, just not very powerful rounds.

    I'm unable to march (can't walk well), don't have a power scooter or what have you, far from DC, and low on cash, so it's not my ideal event to participate on foot, but I like the idea!

    I'm not an advocate of avoiding lawbreaking at any cost whatsoever, to the very end, regardless of the situation; this USA would never have existed if people back then had adopted that viewpoint. Runaway slaves would never have been harbored either. Right and wrong must triumph regulations when it comes down to the crunch.

    However, in this case a peaceful and fully legal march going without a hitch is just what we need, and with legal and political victories being made, it would be much better to lead off with this rather the uncertainties of the Kokesh event.

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    People are fond of pointing out that lawbreaking is justified because, after all, our Founders broke the hell out of it.

    They did this, though, at what I call a when-in-the-course-of-human-events moment. We are not there. So, those who wish to break the law to achieve their goals, I am not with you. If the particular way in which you choose to break the laws is to take up arms against the government, know that I will, at the moment, choose to stand on the government's side and take up arms against you.

    That could change. If the government marches on the People, trying to take away their arms, it WILL change.

    However, until such a sea change, I will not participate in any lawbreaking, not even for unconstitutional laws, in the pursuit of the RKBA, hence my second requirement for participating in any demonstration.

    At the moment, I don't see much interest in a second protest. Oh, well, it was a thought.

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    Regular Member HP995's Avatar
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    I am not with you ... I will, at the moment, choose to stand on the government's side and take up arms against you
    Wow, I'm full of admiration.

    But as I said:

    However, in this case a peaceful and fully legal march going without a hitch is just what we need, and with legal and political victories being made, it would be much better to lead off with this rather the uncertainties of the Kokesh event.
    (meaning rather than the uncertainties, typo)

    You asked for input, and I responded with a method for a fully legal and peaceful armed march by using toy guns. I don't know much about DC law but I expect surely there are legal toys for the purpose, even squirt guns if necessary as I mentioned, but perhaps much better looking toys.

    I think you got sidetracked from your original thrust here, which sounded interesting. Were you indeed interested in ideas for how to do a legal and peaceful march? I agree though, that there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest. Either that or it's a busy weekend for people elsewhere!

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    There is no such thing as a unconstitutional law, it is either constitutional or it is void, whether the court has ruled it unconstitutional or not.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    People are fond of pointing out that lawbreaking is justified because, after all, our Founders broke the hell out of it.

    They did this, though, at what I call a when-in-the-course-of-human-events moment. We are not there. So, those who wish to break the law to achieve their goals, I am not with you. If the particular way in which you choose to break the laws is to take up arms against the government, know that I will, at the moment, choose to stand on the government's side and take up arms against you.

    That could change. If the government marches on the People, trying to take away their arms, it WILL change.

    However, until such a sea change, I will not participate in any lawbreaking, not even for unconstitutional laws, in the pursuit of the RKBA, hence my second requirement for participating in any demonstration.

    At the moment, I don't see much interest in a second protest. Oh, well, it was a thought.
    Good for you Eye. Well done. I am glad you finally admitted your disease. First step to recovery is accepting who you are. Its nice to know whos side you are really on. Speaking of sides...

    I hope for both of our sakes, this march ends peacefully. Id hate to see you lose it all from being on the wrong side.
    Last edited by Tucker6900; 05-19-2013 at 10:55 PM.
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    The UnMarch on DC

    What the hell are you talking about?

    What a moronic post.


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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    What the hell are you talking about?

    What a moronic post.


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    Posts, and I can't believe you made them...

    Never mind, yes I can believe you made them.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 05-19-2013 at 10:56 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    There is no such thing as a unconstitutional law, it is either constitutional or it is void, whether the court has ruled it unconstitutional or not.
    Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

    Always remember, courts are made of people... And people are often wrong.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

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    meh.

    Folks are playing silly and meaningless games with words.

    It matters not whether one calls it an "unconstitutional law" or "void," such laws are on the books, and folks are going to jail for breaking them. Until and unless a court strikes down the law, it has full force, whether or not anyone else is of the opinion that it is unconstitutional or void or whatever other terms one would apply.

    The point remains that I won't (and I recommend that others don't) break any laws (regardless of anyone's personal belief of its constitutionality) until and unless we arrive at a WITCOHE moment. If that happens, all bets are off.

    Word games don't change reality.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Ironic, law abiding gun owners who hint a lawlessness because some law abiding gun owners disagree with a law, a law constituted via our republican form of government. I will not take part in lawlessness or even to hint to condoning lawlessness.

    Elections have consequences. It is our duty as liberty centric citizens to restore, via the ballot box, that which was lost at the ballot box.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    meh.

    Folks are playing silly and meaningless games with words.

    It matters not whether one calls it an "unconstitutional law" or "void," such laws are on the books, and folks are going to jail for breaking them. Until and unless a court strikes down the law, it has full force, whether or not anyone else is of the opinion that it is unconstitutional or void or whatever other terms one would apply.

    The point remains that I won't (and I recommend that others don't) break any laws (regardless of anyone's personal belief of its constitutionality) until and unless we arrive at a WITCOHE moment. If that happens, all bets are off.

    Word games don't change reality.
    It is a shame we can't see you stomping your feet while posting the above bovine scatology. Nobody is forcing you to stick your neck out. Thank God for people like Rosa Parks and MLK though. Seems they did not agree with you.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Ironic, law abiding gun owners who hint a lawlessness because some law abiding gun owners disagree with a law, a law constituted via our republican form of government. I will not take part in lawlessness or even to hint to condoning lawlessness.

    Elections have consequences. It is our duty as liberty centric citizens to restore, via the ballot box, that which was lost at the ballot box.
    Democracy is two wolves and sheep deciding what is for dinner. The constitution prevents the wolves from voting the sheep for dinner. The civil rights movement used civil disobedience to get unconstitutional laws changed, just as the protestors at Kokesh's rally are. It is not an armed revolt in that marchers will be fighting their way into DC to take Congress and the Presidency. I'm sure DC police, et al, will use every non-lethal method at their disposal to stop the armed marchers. Whether it gets bloody greatly rest with them.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    The point of this thread was to: see if enough people here would be interested in helping to organize a "legal" armed march. My understanding this would call for folks carrying their firearms in transport mode. The whole idea being that the main point of DC's laws are that GUNS = CRIME/VIOLENCE. We know this to be bunk. So if we could get 5,000 - 10,000 people to transport firearms legally into DC it would then prove their premise to be false. Guns in the hands of lawful citizens do not cause crime. CRIMINALS DO!

    The Kokesh march is and will be discredited easily. A unconnected march, carried out by law-abiding citizens will be much, much harder to ignore & highlight just how foolish DC laws are when the crime rate drops when the legal marches are in town. Which we know will be the case. The thugs will skittle away like the rats they are while the marchers and LE are in town. Afterwards when things get back to normal so will the normal crime sprees begin again. Further driving home our point.
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    It's a great idea. I just see no interest developing.

    That is unfortunate.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=FreeInAZ;1940927...,. So if we could get 5,000 - 10,000 people to transport firearms legally into DC ....[/QUOTE]

    There's your problem in a nutshell. There is no way to legally transport firearms into DC (unless yu are a DC resident, have jumped through all the hoops, and have the necessary paperwork).

    I'm going to throw out a fairly screwball idea: On a certain day an unexplained coincidence takes place in which a number of persons, all acting on individual initiative and not in concert with any other person or group, takes a walk from Long Bridge Park in Virginia to the foot/bike path of the George Washingtom Parkway in DC, then to Washington Blvd in Virginia, then down Boundary Channel Drive back to the starting point. In Virginia loaded firearms can legally be open carried1. At the DC border all firearms and ammo are unloaded and placed in locked containers, as per FOPA. Firearms are then carried, per FOPA2, through DC3 to the Virginia border where they can legally be removed from the locked containers, loaded, and openly carried again.

    Please try to punch holes in this. If you do not like my "unorganized" hypothesis, then let's get a permit from NPS for a group walk on the GW Parkway, and from Arlington County for the hike back to Long Bridge Park along the public sidewalk. Admittedly at that point there would have to be a "person in charge" which takes some of the fun out of things.

    stay safe.

    1 - see http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-287.4 A firearm
    equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered
    would be illegal (loaded or unloaded) unless the person carrying it had a concealed handgun permit. (Case law does not address if a concealed carry license/permit from another state would be valid. caveat emptor and all that.)

    2 - FOPA provides that persons traveling from one place to another cannot be incarcerated for a firearms offense in a state that has strict gun control laws if the traveler is just passing through (short stops for food and gas), provided that the firearms and ammunition are not immediately accessible, that the firearms are unloaded and, in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment, the firearms are located in a locked container.

    3 - As participants would be walking, there would be no way to place the locked container in a trunk or any other part of a vehicle. Let the DC police scratch their heads about that.
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    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
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    My view on Kokesh's "march" is:
    1) Way too many chances for something to go wrong, from either or both sides.
    2) Even if there is no escalation from either side (and DC already promises arrest) this just gives ammo to the antis.

    My suggestion, either:
    1) Be totally legal carry according to the state on this side of the line, march up to (previously marked by GPS) the line on the bridge but do not cross, short speech, then on command come to attention, about face, drop trou and moon'em, march back to nearest park for more speeches & BBQ. Again, don't cross into DC, but show the stupidity of legal here but illegal (felony) there for just a line on a map when the Constitution applies to all Americans everywhere equally.
    OR
    2) If you really want to protest with an arrest and make a point: NO arms, not even a pocket knife, empty holsters & sheaths. Everyone duct tape a 30 rnd mag (empty) to their shirt and do the full march into DC. Showing the disdain for the law that isn't enforced for NBC's David Gregory, and other ineffectual DC laws. Get creative, maybe tape one on each shoulder, or make a bandoleer of mags, or even tape so many on you are damn near armored like a knight (or Ironman).

    Just some thoughts...
    "Guns are not the problem … crazy is the problem” ... “We cannot legislate our society to the craziest amongst us.” - Jon Stewart
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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Empty Holster, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    It's a great idea. I just see no interest developing.

    That is unfortunate.

    This is sterile empty holster, right?

    I am interested. We can be activists, even when we are not armed.

    I have a CZ-82 flap holster that I have stitched shut and placed a padlock on.

    It will be on my hip.

    No warrant, no lookie.

    I also have rifle cases that can be locked. It still has the gun sticker and the picture of the deer on it. Tote one of those around the city. Drive Cathy and her crew crazy.
    Last edited by Thundar; 05-20-2013 at 07:04 PM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    30 round mag is illegal in DC also, unless you are David Gregory. How many access roads to DC are there, drive to every access road, get out of the cars armed on the border, and shut down DC. No traffic in, no traffic out. Make speeches for about a hour then let the government tards have their city back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Sega View Post
    My view on Kokesh's "march" is:...
    There is a thread for discussing that march. This thread is for discussing an alternative.

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    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    There is a thread for discussing that march. This thread is for discussing an alternative.
    Understood, just had to make my 2 cents about his before going into my alternative suggestions.
    I still think, armed according to the law on this side, marching up to the line w/o entering DC & mooning any "greeters", and returning for BBQ is a good alternate scenario.
    This assumes no attempts to arrest or rounds fired across the "DMZ" border line in the center of the bridge.
    "Guns are not the problem … crazy is the problem” ... “We cannot legislate our society to the craziest amongst us.” - Jon Stewart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Sega View Post
    Understood, just had to make my 2 cents about his before going into my alternative suggestions.
    I still think, armed according to the law on this side, marching up to the line w/o entering DC & mooning any "greeters", and returning for BBQ is a good alternate scenario.
    This assumes no attempts to arrest or rounds fired across the "DMZ" border line in the center of the bridge.
    It would be legal, except possibly the mooning part. Showing my particular ass (not necessarily asses in general) has GOT to be illegal in 37 States.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
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    Exactlly... nobody would want to see any of our backsides, but with that
    (heh, said but) could DC cross the line to ticket/arrest the mooning protesters???

    Jurisdiction... how would that be handled, legally?

    And if they did cross the border and arrest for indecent exposure...
    (Portland, OR recently ruled legal 1A for stripping to the buff at a TSA checkpoint),
    when taking the arrestee across the border, then they are bringing the arms into DC.

    Legal beagle's thoughts?
    Last edited by Lord Sega; 05-20-2013 at 09:48 PM.
    "Guns are not the problem … crazy is the problem” ... “We cannot legislate our society to the craziest amongst us.” - Jon Stewart
    “I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." - Tolkien

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    There's your problem in a nutshell. There is no way to legally transport firearms into DC (unless yu are a DC resident, have jumped through all the hoops, and have the necessary paperwork).

    I'm going to throw out a fairly screwball idea: On a certain day an unexplained coincidence takes place in which a number of persons, all acting on individual initiative and not in concert with any other person or group, takes a walk from Long Bridge Park in Virginia to the foot/bike path of the George Washingtom Parkway in DC, then to Washington Blvd in Virginia, then down Boundary Channel Drive back to the starting point. In Virginia loaded firearms can legally be open carried1. At the DC border all firearms and ammo are unloaded and placed in locked containers, as per FOPA. Firearms are then carried, per FOPA2, through DC3 to the Virginia border where they can legally be removed from the locked containers, loaded, and openly carried again.

    Please try to punch holes in this. If you do not like my "unorganized" hypothesis, then let's get a permit from NPS for a group walk on the GW Parkway, and from Arlington County for the hike back to Long Bridge Park along the public sidewalk. Admittedly at that point there would have to be a "person in charge" which takes some of the fun out of things.

    stay safe.



    1 - see http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-287.4 A firearm would be illegal (loaded or unloaded) unless the person carrying it had a concealed handgun permit. (Case law does not address if a concealed carry license/permit from another state would be valid. caveat emptor and all that.)

    2 - FOPA provides that persons traveling from one place to another cannot be incarcerated for a firearms offense in a state that has strict gun control laws if the traveler is just passing through (short stops for food and gas), provided that the firearms and ammunition are not immediately accessible, that the firearms are unloaded and, in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment, the firearms are located in a locked container.

    3 - As participants would be walking, there would be no way to place the locked container in a trunk or any other part of a vehicle. Let the DC police scratch their heads about that.
    +1 I think Skid has the ticket with this idea. Please think it over and give your input/idea's
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    There is no such thing as a unconstitutional law, it is either constitutional or it is void, whether the court has ruled it unconstitutional or not.
    I agree, although I do see what Eye's point was.

    I have used unconstitutional a lot.....may have to change that to a non existent law....or something to that effect.....going to dwell on that.



    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    It has been proposed that an alternative to Kokesh's "armed revolt" be staged in protest of DC's gun ban.

    This thread is to spitball ideas and form a grassroots movement to organize such a rally. I only have two requirements:

    1. No one is in charge. This must be grassroots.
    2. We must collectively decide not to deliberately break any laws--not even unconstitutional ones.

    Feel free to ignore my requirements. That is the nature of grassroots. I just won't participate if laws are to be broken or a Kokesh-wannabe takes over.

    Start spitballin"!


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    Eye, I do believe you are offering another option, that many more people would feel comfortable with. I know we disagree on the personal perspective points of Adam's march, I do think that all protests including this idea that show dissatisfaction with the tyrannical facets of our government are good! And I would be interested, another poster here and I have discussed maybe protesting outside the local Federally owned government offices, just making sure we don't go onto gov. property.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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