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Thread: Feeling Conflicted, cop assualts civilian and I'm not outraged

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Feeling Conflicted, cop assualts civilian and I'm not outraged

    A young man who called police is annoyed at the response time and claims rank to the officer.

    Officer knocks young man on his ass.

    I guess I just don't like people posturing, whether they're saying "I'm a soldier" or "I just got out of the pen".

    Maybe I like this because despite the excessive force it was not escalated to 10 officers dog piling and beating him. The officer maintained even tone.

    Thoughts?





    P.S. I thought they tazed him for a moment there.
    Last edited by sharkey; 05-19-2013 at 07:23 AM.
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    Someone uses physical violence as a response to arrogance, and you're conflicted?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    Someone uses physical violence as a response to arrogance, and you're conflicted?
    +1

    And, that someone is a costumed agent of the state trained in de-escalation techniques. An armed costumed agent of the state trained in de-escalation techniques.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Feeling Conflicted, cop assualts civilian and I'm not outraged

    looks like battery to me. stupid swine. unless kid touched swine out of camera view.
    Last edited by PFC HALE; 05-21-2013 at 01:33 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    +1 And, that someone is a costumed agent of the state trained in de-escalation techniques. An armed costumed agent of the state trained in de-escalation techniques.
    You're sure about that training universally?

    I am sure that clowns are trained in slapstick comedy, in addition to their traditional costuming.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    So the cop is repeatedly saying that the kid "postured up in front of my face". Nothing about, or even suggesting, that the kid touched him.

    There's no conflict in my mind at all - the cop should go down both via personnel action and via civil suit. Using the system against someone who has the termidity to commit contempt of cop is reprehensible enough, but when a cop lashes out physically without cause or provocation is, in my book, worse.

    Everybody can have a bad day. But cops are paid to carry on professionally even though they are in the middle of the very most baddest day of their lives so far, as a young child once described their situation to me.

    And by the way - the kid's problem was the most important thing in the world to him right then, and he certainly felt that his problem should have received a higher priority of attention. It comes from being part of the entitlement herd. By appearances the Army has not get disabused himn of the notion that he is the center of the known universe.

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    The kid probably enlisted in The Army of One, but then he ought'a be at least a sergeant leader.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    ...And by the way - the kid's problem was the most important thing in the world to him right then, and he certainly felt that his problem should have received a higher priority of attention. It comes from being part of the entitlement herd. ....
    Agreed.

    In fact, the cop's LACK OF SELF-CONTROL and LACK OF PROFESSIONALISM and BATTERY WHILE ARMED AND ON-DUTY is going to get this "kid" a lawsuit settlement; thus reinforcing his sense of entitlement.

    Way to go...

    Ignoring the kid would have actually taught him a lesson that: "**** happens, and we'll deal with it as soon as we can and we appreciate your patience, even though you won't understand it until you calm down."
    Last edited by MAC702; 05-19-2013 at 01:41 PM.
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    Re: Feeling Conflicted, cop assualts civilian and I'm not outraged

    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Agreed.

    In fact, the cop's LACK OF SELF-CONTROL and LACK OF PROFESSIONALISM and BATTERY WHILE ARMED AND ON-DUTY is going to get this "kid" a lawsuit settlement; thus reinforcing his sense of entitlement.

    Way to go...

    Ignoring the kid would have actually taught him a lesson that: "**** happens, and we'll deal with it as soon as we can and we appreciate your patience, even though you won't understand it until you calm down."
    Infortunately, no it won't win him a lawsuit..... There was a news spot on this a few days after it happened, the kid isn't sueing or even putting in a complaint. And yet he said he is still hoping that the cops will learn and change from this event.... /sigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    So the cop is repeatedly saying that the kid "postured up in front of my face". Nothing about, or even suggesting, that the kid touched him.

    There's no conflict in my mind at all - the cop should go down both via personnel action and via civil suit. Using the system against someone who has the termidity to commit contempt of cop is reprehensible enough, but when a cop lashes out physically without cause or provocation is, in my book, worse.

    Everybody can have a bad day. But cops are paid to carry on professionally even though they are in the middle of the very most baddest day of their lives so far, as a young child once described their situation to me.

    And by the way - the kid's problem was the most important thing in the world to him right then, and he certainly felt that his problem should have received a higher priority of attention. It comes from being part of the entitlement herd. By appearances the Army has not get disabused himn of the notion that he is the center of the known universe.

    stay safe.
    I agree completely.

    My take is that they both behaved thuggishly, just that the kid is more of a wannabe who got his ass handed to him by someone being thuggier. He seemed like he could only respect another if the other whupped him. I wonder how he learned that bit of stupidity.

    The cop ought to face criminal charges. "Posturing" only deserves assault in the world of thugs. Cops must be above that.

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    Feeling Conflicted, cop assualts civilian and I'm not outraged

    That post is generalizing to all police, i.e. it is cop-bashing.

    Ain't nothing wrong with posting a judgment of a particular cop because of his particular actions, e.g. this cop is a thug because he struck a citizen when it was not warranted. But making statements as though all cops are thugs is bigoted--and a rules violation here.

    Worse, generalization like that is similar to the behavior that some antis display about US. They talk about gun owners as a group in disparaging terms. We need to be better than that.


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    Cop is a thug. This came out a long time ago, and to say the least, the cop seen here has a whole track record of idiocy. He attempted to intimidate the victim by being completely rude from the get-go. I don't care how thinly stretched you are, you don't mouth off like this punk did when he says, "We're not on your time.".

    Actually, *******, you ARE on the publics time. Your entire existence is dependent upon it. Show some respect.

    I can't help but wonder how far a, "Sir, we're really sorry but we are understaffed and sincerely doing our best, now what can we help you with?" would have gone.

    Nope. Couldn't do that. Officer Ego needed to assert his ******* nature.

    Kid was kind of a chode for saying, "Hurp durp immuh soldier" but let's face it; The only reason he did was because officer dillweed attempted to be physically imposing on the guy with his knowledge that he was a larger individual by stepping into his face because he arrived on scene with a pre-wadded set of feminine undergarments firmly wound in his pants.

    Both of them have mild egos. The kids is more reactionary. The officers is more offensive.

    I wonder which poses more of a public risk.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-25-2013 at 07:01 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joanie View Post
    Ain't nothing wrong with posting a judgment of a particular cop because of his particular actions, e.g. this cop is a thug because he struck a citizen when it was not warranted. But making statements as though all cops are thugs is bigoted--and a rules violation here.


    Point out where this has occurred.

    Quote Originally Posted by joanie View Post
    First, this citizen stepped up to a cop who "HE" called, like a BA acting all tuff.
    Incorrect. He was reacting to the immediate and initial attempt by the officer to intimidate him by getting into his face.

    Go back and actually watch the video this time.

    It was not appropriate, in any form or fashion, for the officer to attempt to intimidate this guy by being physically imposing. This combined with his overtly rude commentary on arrival makes for a pretty well-rounded and comprehensive understanding that the officer was not exactly being wholly rational, or professional from the get-go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
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    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
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    Feeling Conflicted, cop assualts civilian and I'm not outraged

    Joanie is right to the extent that she says the wannabe thug is not totally blameless. However, he is innocent of the crime of assault. I cannot say with any certainty the same of the cop. He behaved like a thug. I'd press charges if he did it to me. However, I'd've been smarter in the first place and would have said for the benefit of my recording, "Please don't get into my face. Here, I'll back up. Let's both of us respect each other's personal space." If he slugged me then, there'd be no doubt that it was criminal assault.


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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95
    that they both behaved thuggishly, just that the kid is more of a wannabe who got his ass handed to him by someone being thuggier.
    He seemed like he could only respect another if the other whupped him.
    ... "Posturing" only deserves assault in the world of thugs. Cops must be above that.
    +1 on all that

    And as for our newbie who didn't read the rules, just report the post & let the admins straighten him out. It's obvious he's not willing to accept the correction from any regular member.

    Hint: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
    (6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc).
    While what you posted is probably true of the officer(s) you interacted with, it cannot be true of every person employed as a LEO in the USA. Therefore, it is overbroad.
    Believe me, there are things officers have done to me (directly & indirectly) that would make for a bad attitude toward cops in just about anyone.
    I understand the urge toward generalization.
    But I also have a friend who happens to be employed as a LEO who is not all those things generally attributed to cops when bashing them.
    So I know they aren't all as bad as the ones who have caused problems for me, and I hope that there are more like my friend than there are like the troublemakers.
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    You can see the cop moving to the side. He's slowly getting in position first, probably where he can get a leg behind. A bit cheesy the way he talks while moving to the side, but effective. Then he starts crowing once the move is made and the soldier is down.

    Too bad the soldier didn't recognize it and take a step back. I wonder what would have happened if he had just kept complaining calmly about the time rather than stepping up and getting a bit aggressive when the cop stepped up. With this cop, I'm guessing it would have still been ugly.

    It's unbelievable how much the cop brags with the camera on. Taunting about the effects of having knee on chest. Thug + Badge = Worse Thug. It would be fun to see a video of these 2 goons "introducing themselves" to the wrong people and getting in way over their heads.

    News report:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpNZ22z7B7w

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    Quote Originally Posted by HP995 View Post
    You can see the cop moving to the side. He's slowly getting in position first, probably where he can get a leg behind. A bit cheesy the way he talks while moving to the side, but effective. Then he starts crowing once the move is made and the soldier is down.

    Too bad the soldier didn't recognize it and take a step back. I wonder what would have happened if he had just kept complaining calmly about the time rather than stepping up and getting a bit aggressive when the cop stepped up. With this cop, I'm guessing it would have still been ugly.

    It's unbelievable how much the cop brags with the camera on. Taunting about the effects of having knee on chest. Thug + Badge = Worse Thug. It would be fun to see a video of these 2 goons "introducing themselves" to the wrong people and getting in way over their heads.

    News report:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpNZ22z7B7w

    Hmmm. I know I should be outraged. I'm anti-authority, I believe cops should be held to a higher standard, and you all confirm it...... However, I just can't feel sympathy for this man, the video posted above made me dislike him more.

    This is weird to me as I've screamed in cops faces. I laid on my horn once and screamed at a cop to move his f'n vehicle out of my way when he pulled someone over and blocked the entrance to my neighborhood. Granted all of that was almost 20 years ago, I should at least be able to empathize with this man, but nope, I don't like him.

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    Whether you can empathize doesn't matter.

    What if you were lawfully refusing to give ID to a cop while OC'ing and because they didn't like it you went to jail?

    Should that be OK because most people can't empathize with you?

    Just because a person is being a jerk to cops doesn't give the cop free license to ignore our civil rights.
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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron73440 View Post
    Whether you can empathize doesn't matter.

    What if you were lawfully refusing to give ID to a cop while OC'ing and because they didn't like it you went to jail?

    Should that be OK because most people can't empathize with you?

    Just because a person is being a jerk to cops doesn't give the cop free license to ignore our civil rights.
    Nowhere did I say it was OK.

    I said I wasn't outraged. I'm surprised by my lack of outrage, meaning I know what was done was wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    ...And as for our newbie who didn't read the rules, just report the post & let the admins straighten him out. It's obvious he's not willing to accept the correction from any regular member...
    I know this member personally. I was hoping to nudge her into rethinking such overbroad statements. If she thinks about what I wrote and comes to her own conclusion that specific judgments about specific people and their specific behaviors makes stronger statements than overbroad generalizations do, then that is better than if the staff edit her post.

    There are folks here who routinely do the general cop-bashing stuff. Them, I report--including one such post in this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HP995 View Post
    You can see the cop moving to the side. He's slowly getting in position first, probably where he can get a leg behind. A bit cheesy the way he talks while moving to the side, but effective. Then he starts crowing once the move is made and the soldier is down.

    Too bad the soldier didn't recognize it and take a step back. I wonder what would have happened if he had just kept complaining calmly about the time rather than stepping up and getting a bit aggressive when the cop stepped up. With this cop, I'm guessing it would have still been ugly.

    It's unbelievable how much the cop brags with the camera on. Taunting about the effects of having knee on chest. Thug + Badge = Worse Thug. It would be fun to see a video of these 2 goons "introducing themselves" to the wrong people and getting in way over their heads.

    News report:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpNZ22z7B7w
    Your take on this cop is spot on.
    Last edited by eye95; 05-20-2013 at 09:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ron73440 View Post
    Whether you can empathize doesn't matter.

    What if you were lawfully refusing to give ID to a cop while OC'ing and because they didn't like it you went to jail?

    Should that be OK because most people can't empathize with you?

    Just because a person is being a jerk to cops doesn't give the cop free license to ignore our civil rights.
    Exactly. This kid was a thuggette who ran into a real thug. I have zero sympathy. My sympathy lies with the Constitution that this officer also assaulted.

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    I have talked to cops much worse than this guy did...

    To much steroids or not enough? haha

    Just tell the cop that you have freedom of speech .. they love this !
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 05-20-2013 at 11:00 AM.

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    Oh, well, I tried the personal, gentle way.

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    Out of the 800,000 LEO in the US, we're surprised to see a few hundred YouTube videos? We only see the bad because that is what gets the majority of people in an uproar. Post a good video of a LEO and people will be "Ok!" or "Good job," and the thread dies in 2 pages. Post something like the topical video, and you'll get three weeks and 20 pages of "Cops are evil!" and various epithets.

    For my personal opinion on the video, the cop's actions were overboard for the situation. A guy was just beaten and home violated. Sure, I'd be ticked off too, and the LEO should be cognizant of that. The victim acted immaturely, but that doesn't allow the officer to act the way he did. As much as the victim seems to be someone not to be my friend, I think he does have grounds for police brutality and unlawful detaining.

    All LEO should watch the YouTube video of the trooper who gave an old guy a speeding ticket and the guy flipped out. The trooper stood there and took it. Then, when the old guy tore up the ticket and threw it out the window, the trooper told him "If you don't pick that up, I'm going to cite you for littering."

    Anecdotal, I have two friends who are LEOs, and are very down to earth, family men, and in my experience, good guys. Just like painting all gun owners with the same brush is bad, so is painting LEOs.

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