Feeling Conflicted, cop assualts civilian and I'm not outraged

MKEgal said:

...And as for our newbie who didn't read the rules, just report the post & let the admins straighten him out. It's obvious he's not willing to accept the correction from any regular member...

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I know this member personally. I was hoping to nudge her into rethinking such overbroad statements. If she thinks about what I wrote and comes to her own conclusion that specific judgments about specific people and their specific behaviors makes stronger statements than overbroad generalizations do, then that is better than if the staff edit her post.

There are folks here who routinely do the general cop-bashing stuff. Them, I report--including one such post in this thread.

HP995 said:

You can see the cop moving to the side. He's slowly getting in position first, probably where he can get a leg behind. A bit cheesy the way he talks while moving to the side, but effective. Then he starts crowing once the move is made and the soldier is down.

Too bad the soldier didn't recognize it and take a step back. I wonder what would have happened if he had just kept complaining calmly about the time rather than stepping up and getting a bit aggressive when the cop stepped up. With this cop, I'm guessing it would have still been ugly.

It's unbelievable how much the cop brags with the camera on. Taunting about the effects of having knee on chest. Thug + Badge = Worse Thug. It would be fun to see a video of these 2 goons "introducing themselves" to the wrong people and getting in way over their heads.

News report:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpNZ22z7B7w

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Your take on this cop is spot on.

ron73440 said:

Whether you can empathize doesn't matter.

What if you were lawfully refusing to give ID to a cop while OC'ing and because they didn't like it you went to jail?

Should that be OK because most people can't empathize with you?

Just because a person is being a jerk to cops doesn't give the cop free license to ignore our civil rights.

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Exactly. This kid was a thuggette who ran into a real thug. I have zero sympathy. My sympathy lies with the Constitution that this officer also assaulted.

I have talked to cops much worse than this guy did...

To much steroids or not enough? haha

Just tell the cop that you have freedom of speech .. they love this !

eye95 said:

I know this member personally. I was hoping to nudge her into rethinking such overbroad statements. If she thinks about what I wrote and comes to her own conclusion that specific judgments about specific people and their specific behaviors makes stronger statements than overbroad generalizations do, then that is better than if the staff edit her post.

There are folks here who routinely do the general cop-bashing stuff. Them, I report--including one such post in this thread.

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I would like to think that I found a place to post here where I'm not surrounded by, for lack of a better term "button pushers" Well, that and I'm kinda a fan of freedom of speech. For the benifit of such here, I will use the term "being nice to me" Because as we all know the police are "wonderfull" people.

There were many of these "wonderfull people" around at the times when one or two of them were "being nice to me" More times that I can count they were being only alittle "nice to me" at least three times they have been extreemly "nice to me" One such time when there were jail gaurds being extreemly "nice to me" there were staff all over the place, Police types, from what I could tell, they all had the same kind of uniform. Sheriffs, jail gaurds, processing staff, finger printing personell, the nurse. Most of these people found the extreeme "kindness" tward me amusing, all of them tollerated it, just stood by and let it happen.

When someone, or say a group of people have been that "nice" to you, it's something you don't forget in your lifetime. If or not you might want to.

So I look and do searches mostly on Youtube to see if these "wonderfull" police only "like" me so much, or do they have a fondness for others. Their "concern" for the wellfare of a homeless man named Kelly Thomas really touched me. They were so extreemly "nice" and "kind" to him. They were also "nice" to that deaf guy carving on a piece of wood.

So what happends when a cop is not so "nice" is being "nice" a job requirement? look at the following links and find out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZzQ6aEwhTM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2unpqajKW8

I'm not saying there can't be good police, I'm only saying that it seems to me that good police don't do well on the job. But what do I know, I've only studied this and experanced it first hand. So go ahead and report if you must. At least I'll know where I stand here. Guess I could just start posting on Planet infowars.

Oh, well, I tried the personal, gentle way.

Out of the 800,000 LEO in the US, we're surprised to see a few hundred YouTube videos? We only see the bad because that is what gets the majority of people in an uproar. Post a good video of a LEO and people will be "Ok!" or "Good job," and the thread dies in 2 pages. Post something like the topical video, and you'll get three weeks and 20 pages of "Cops are evil!" and various epithets.

For my personal opinion on the video, the cop's actions were overboard for the situation. A guy was just beaten and home violated. Sure, I'd be ticked off too, and the LEO should be cognizant of that. The victim acted immaturely, but that doesn't allow the officer to act the way he did. As much as the victim seems to be someone not to be my friend, I think he does have grounds for police brutality and unlawful detaining.

All LEO should watch the YouTube video of the trooper who gave an old guy a speeding ticket and the guy flipped out. The trooper stood there and took it. Then, when the old guy tore up the ticket and threw it out the window, the trooper told him "If you don't pick that up, I'm going to cite you for littering."

Anecdotal, I have two friends who are LEOs, and are very down to earth, family men, and in my experience, good guys. Just like painting all gun owners with the same brush is bad, so is painting LEOs.

mikeyb said:

SNIP Out of the 800,000 LEO in the US...

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I won't drag the thread far off-topic. Just this one response, then I'll be quiet---as long as the cop apologists get back on-topic, too.


Questions:

If a very large percentage of cops are good cops,

1. Where were all the so-called good cops who should have been decrying the misuse of wire-tap laws to violate citizens 1st Amendment right to record cops doing their duty a couple years ago?

2. Why haven't all the so-called good cops put an end to the Blue Wall of Silence and everything it hides?

3. Why haven't all the so-called good cops run the police unions out of town on a rail after defending outrageously bad police behavior?

4. There is a very recent case of a drunk, handcuffed man beaten to death by police. A couple years ago, a college student was beaten by police. A few years ago, a homeless man was beaten to death. The last two were proved police abuse by video. The first has several disinterested witnesses. Are we to believe that its just a coincidence that in each of those situations, the only bad officers in those departments all just happened to be on those street corners? Really?

mikeyb said:

Out of the 800,000 LEO in the US, we're surprised to see a few hundred YouTube videos? We only see the bad because that is what gets the majority of people in an uproar. Post a good video of a LEO and people will be "Ok!" or "Good job," and the thread dies in 2 pages. Post something like the topical video, and you'll get three weeks and 20 pages of "Cops are evil!" and various epithets.

For my personal opinion on the video, the cop's actions were overboard for the situation. A guy was just beaten and home violated. Sure, I'd be ticked off too, and the LEO should be cognizant of that. The victim acted immaturely, but that doesn't allow the officer to act the way he did. As much as the victim seems to be someone not to be my friend, I think he does have grounds for police brutality and unlawful detaining.

All LEO should watch the YouTube video of the trooper who gave an old guy a speeding ticket and the guy flipped out. The trooper stood there and took it. Then, when the old guy tore up the ticket and threw it out the window, the trooper told him "If you don't pick that up, I'm going to cite you for littering."

Anecdotal, I have two friends who are LEOs, and are very down to earth, family men, and in my experience, good guys. Just like painting all gun owners with the same brush is bad, so is painting LEOs.

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I posted two links to a fine example of a police officer doing what they should do when seeing a fellow officer abusing their power. That cop was horriblly attacked by the profession, or the department, however you want to see it. Maybe there are police out there who do the right thing and keep their job, I have yet to see any personally though. I would think, one would think, that some of what only a select few did to me, should have others who seen it, were there at the time at the very least speaking up in my favor. You are right, you don't see many videos, or stories outlining whan good cops go above and beound. By the same token, you are only seeing a fraction of the police abuse in videos. Most people (victims) of police abuse, don't plan for it ahead of time and film them. The police who were being so "nice" to me didn't try to hide it, never dragged me off behind a wall or something. They knew it would be accepted or tollerated by all the other police in the profession.

Who's your typical good cop gonna side with, lowlife criminal me, or their fellow officer, who they work with day in day out? If at least half of the police were like the lady in the links above, (she pulled another cop off of the guy he attacked and was punching) Then police in general would have a very good reputation with the people and I wouldn't have any ground of truth to stand on in what I say.

No, not all cops are all that bad, however, there is a problem within the profession. I'm only tring to bring it out in the open. Shed light on it.

Citizen said:

I won't drag the thread far off-topic. Just this one response, then I'll be quiet---as long as the cop apologists get back on-topic, too.


Questions:

If a very large percentage of cops are good cops,

1. Where were all the so-called good cops who should have been decrying the misuse of wire-tap laws to violate citizens 1st Amendment right to record cops doing their duty a couple years ago?

2. Why haven't all the so-called good cops put an end to the Blue Wall of Silence and everything it hides?

3. Why haven't all the so-called good cops run the police unions out of town on a rail after defending outrageously bad police behavior?

4. There is a very recent case of a drunk, handcuffed man beaten to death by police. A couple years ago, a college student was beaten by police. A few years ago, a homeless man was beaten to death. The last two were proved police abuse by video. The first has several disinterested witnesses. Are we to believe that its just a coincidence that in each of those situations, the only bad officers in those departments all just happened to be on those street corners? Really?

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+1 As I have stated many times before there is no "bad apple" when the barrel is rotten and I will ad they refuse to get a new barrel and refuse to throw out the bad apples. Notice most good cops or cops who speak out against bad actions are all ex-cops.

Citizen said:

I won't drag the thread far off-topic. Just this one response, then I'll be quiet---as long as the cop apologists get back on-topic, too.


Questions:

If a very large percentage of cops are good cops,

1. Where were all the so-called good cops who should have been decrying the misuse of wire-tap laws to violate citizens 1st Amendment right to record cops doing their duty a couple years ago?

2. Why haven't all the so-called good cops put an end to the Blue Wall of Silence and everything it hides?

3. Why haven't all the so-called good cops run the police unions out of town on a rail after defending outrageously bad police behavior?

4. There is a very recent case of a drunk, handcuffed man beaten to death by police. A couple years ago, a college student was beaten by police. A few years ago, a homeless man was beaten to death. The last two were proved police abuse by video. The first has several disinterested witnesses. Are we to believe that its just a coincidence that in each of those situations, the only bad officers in those departments all just happened to be on those street corners? Really?

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Five is a large number to me ...:monkey:monkey

When a cop does something wrong, there are some here that enjoy railing against it and make general LE bashing comments.

When a maniac shoots up a school or theater, the same people get white around the mouth when the press demonizes gun owners as being part of the problem.

It's not cops in general. It's not gun owners in general. It IS the people who commit these acts, whoever they are professionally and personally.

As citizens, we should be involved with all levels of our government, and you can get involved with your local police department. Why wait for a problem to come your way when you can actively pursue the changes you want in your local LEA?

palerider116 said:

When a cop does something wrong, there are some here that enjoy railing against it and make general LE bashing comments.

When a maniac shoots up a school or theater, the same people get white around the mouth when the press demonizes gun owners as being part of the problem.

It's not cops in general. It's not gun owners in general. It IS the people who commit these acts, whoever they are professionally and personally.

As citizens, we should be involved with all levels of our government, and you can get involved with your local police department. Why wait for a problem to come your way when you can actively pursue the changes you want in your local LEA?

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Disagree on your analogy and your reasoniong.

There is much evidence that the system, (not just bad cops) are the problem.

A gun owner doesn't get to hide behind being "on duty", gun owner doesn't have a union protecting his bad actions, gun owner doesn't have the state protecting him, he doesn't have lots of other gun owners putting up a wall of silence, gun owners don't feel they are special because they are costumed agents of the state, they don't have a large population of apologist rationalizing away their bad behaviors.

Also in my book you can never ever compare the actions of government employees to the general public.

Even if what you say is true, it does not address the underlying point.

Generalizing the actions of any member of a group to the whole group is dishonest. We don't like it when it is done to us. We shouldn't do it to others!


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<o>

sharkey said:

Maybe I like this because despite the excessive force it was not escalated to 10 officers dog piling and beating him.

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You like it because, as we've established, you're a sycophant of the state. Nobody is surprised.

Citizen said:

And, that someone is a costumed agent of the state trained in de-escalation techniques. An armed costumed agent of the state trained in de-escalation techniques.

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This is not how user claims officers are trained in Culpeper.

eye95 said:

"Posturing" only deserves assault in the world of thugs. Cops must be above that.

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+1

I was going to ask Sharkey how he'd feel about a youtube video where one thug beats some punk's ass for "dissing" his shoes or whatever. Would he get a warm fuzzy from that, too?

Make no mistake, the kid was a real ass. "US Soldier bro, know who you're talking to!" Someone said that to me, I'd laugh in his face. Probably say something like, "US Citizen bro, know who you're talking to!" if the situation allowed.

But, because I am anti-authority, and anti-aggression, and for that matter anti-violence, I can quite clearly see who crossed the line, and there is no confusion whatsoever. The cop "stepped up" to the kid (watch the video again), and then used that as an excuse to assault and batter the kid.

Big talk is never a justification for violence. Period.

So, one person introduces himself as a member of a military branch, the other introduces himself as a member of the military branch... sounds like this isn't a Color of Law issue, but a case for the UMCJ to handle....

marshaul said:

You like it because, as we've established, you're a sycophant of the state. Nobody is surprised.

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Jeez. Like was a strong word. I recognize it's bad.

I'm not a sycophant of anyone or anything. I rarely flatter.

I'm one of the few here who will admit I'm not infallible. I would not have used the word conflicted otherwise.

I put up two posts you disagree with (one on your felony discharge thread) and suddenly I'm a boot licker?

It's amazing to me that the response to this thread had been unanimous dissent but the response to the thread where the NY police officer killed an innocent hostage has been mixed.

I'm happy with the dissent on this thread (sans the personal attack on my morals by one member) as it shows me there is hope. It's rare to see a thread here where members are aligned in their convictions. I truly wish those convictions would carry to the more egregious violations of liberty and life.

Food for though. That is all.