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Thread: Jefferson County OC Ban

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Jefferson County OC Ban

    Tomorrow at 8:00 am, the Jefferson County commissioners will be deciding whether or not to implement an Open Carry ban at County Offices. This will include the commissioners chamber, the County motor vehicle office, food stamps and social services building, Sheriff's office, District Attorney's office, Workforce Center, All JeffCo Libraries, Fairgrounds, etc.

    If you can spare the time, make your voice heard.

    The meeting is at the Jefferson County Commissioners, which is the first room to the left of the atrium on the ground floor (if memory serves) of the County Justice Building, 100 Jefferson County Pkwy, Golden, CO.

    The building does have metal detectors, but only on the other side of the building for the court rooms; meaning that this meeting is in the 'unsecured' half of the building. The building itself is not posted no OC.

    If you can't make it, Email: commish@jeffco.us Phone: 303-271-8525

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    Tomorrow at 8:00 am, the Jefferson County commissioners will be deciding whether or not to implement an Open Carry ban at County Offices. This will include the commissioners chamber, the County motor vehicle office, food stamps and social services building, Sheriff's office, District Attorney's office, Workforce Center, All JeffCo Libraries, Fairgrounds, etc.

    If you can spare the time, make your voice heard.

    The meeting is at the Jefferson County Commissioners, which is the first room to the left of the atrium on the ground floor (if memory serves) of the County Justice Building, 100 Jefferson County Pkwy, Golden, CO.

    The building does have metal detectors, but only on the other side of the building for the court rooms; meaning that this meeting is in the 'unsecured' half of the building. The building itself is not posted no OC.

    If you can't make it, Email: commish@jeffco.us Phone: 303-271-8525
    Those buildings are all in the city of Golden though. And that city has a municipal ordnance against open carry. Golden is also Home Rule. So open carry is already not allowed.

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    Regular Member x1wildone's Avatar
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    It would seem redundant to write any new regulations. State statutes already have this covered, the only requirement would be proper signage and or 24/7 metal detectors and security personnel.
    As far as Golden they have a law 8.04.940 that is invalid by state preemption.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle8338 View Post
    Those buildings are all in the city of Golden though. And that city has a municipal ordnance against open carry. Golden is also Home Rule. So open carry is already not allowed.
    In the case of OC, if it's not signed it's not prohibited.
    The ordinance you reference also says City Property. This is County Property that is located within the City limits.
    Golden being Home Rule is irrelevant, the only city exempted from the above statement is Denver according to the Myers decision.

    OC is currently allowed, this would change that.
    Last edited by JamesB; 05-21-2013 at 12:54 AM. Reason: clarification

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    In the case of OC, if it's not signed it's not prohibited.
    The ordinance you reference also says City Property. This is County Property that is located within the City limits.
    Golden being Home Rule is irrelevant, the only city exempted from the above statement is Denver according to the Myers decision.

    OC is currently allowed, this would change that.
    I thought the Myers decision rendered irrelevant any and all legislation banning OC except for Denver/Denver County? If so, it doesn't matter what local laws they pass. It's already been decided they're irrelevant.

    What am I missing?
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by x1wildone View Post
    It would seem redundant to write any new regulations. State statutes already have this covered, the only requirement would be proper signage and or 24/7 metal detectors and security personnel.
    As far as Golden they have a law 8.04.940 that is invalid by state preemption.
    Signage is great, but it must have the backing of an ordinance to prohibit OC, currently there is not one in place.

    24/7 metal detectors and security personnel would also prohibit CC. I really don't think there is space in the budget for this, nor are they trying to take the issue that far. I don't even want to bring it up for fear that it may give them ideas.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I thought the Myers decision rendered irrelevant any and all legislation banning OC except for Denver/Denver County? If so, it doesn't matter what local laws they pass. It's already been decided they're irrelevant.

    What am I missing?
    29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting.

    A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area.

    Meaning, they cannot ban OC outright as in walking down the sidewalk. But they can prohibit within a specific building. That is what they are looking at doing.
    Last edited by JamesB; 05-21-2013 at 01:01 AM.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    In the case of OC, if it's not signed it's not prohibited.
    The ordinance you reference also says City Property. This is County Property that is located within the City limits.
    Golden being Home Rule is irrelevant, the only city exempted from the above statement is Denver according to the Myers decision.

    OC is currently allowed, this would change that.
    It doesnt mention city property though:

    8.04.940 Open carry/concealed weapons prohibited

    1. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, wear about their person or under their clothes, or concealed about their person, any firearm, handgun or mechanical gun.
    2. The prohibition of wearing a handgun under one’s clothes or concealing a handgun upon oneself shall not apply to any person in possession of valid state concealed handgun permit and in compliance with federal, state or local laws and regulations.
    3. The prohibition of carrying or concealing a handgun shall not apply to any person carrying or concealing a handgun within a private automobile or other private means of conveyance, for the lawful protection of ones person or property while traveling.
    4. It shall be an affirmative defense to this section that the weapon was carried or concealed by such person;
    (a) In defense of home, person or property, when in such home when there is a direct and immediate threat thereto;
    (b) In aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned;
    (c) For use in the course of lawful hunting activities or for transportation in the legitimate sporting use of such weapons, including shooting matches or other target shooting, or trap or skeet shooting, provided that all such weapons being so used shall be unloaded when carried or transported to or from such hunting trip or place of sporting use;
    (d) When such person is a collector or licensed dealer displaying or transporting such weapon for display or sale, or a citizen transporting such weapon for purpose of sale or repair to or from a place of sale or repair provided that all firearms so displayed or transported shall be unloaded at all times; or
    (e) While moving personal property as part of a re-location to a new residence.
    (Ord. 1714, 2005; Ord. 1142, 1992; provision adopted as part of code).

    And can you explain why the home rule is irrelevant? I thought Denver's home rule is what got them free of having to allow open carry. So why not Golden's home rule?

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    Regular Member x1wildone's Avatar
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    This is another example of certain persons trying to give themselves a warm and fuzzy, and or maybe some administrators are bored.
    If they are bored they should do some investigating in the State statutes,and they will see that what they want to do is allowed.
    All that is needed is proper signage.

  11. #11
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Resolution Passed. By a vote of 2-1.

    There will be more information available and minutes and stuff here:
    https://www.co.jefferson.co.us/bcc/index.htm

    And on Channel 7 this evening.

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    Regular Member x1wildone's Avatar
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    Now I can question the intelligence of Jefferson County. In less time then it took to talk about this ordinance, they could have looked up the laws already in effect.
    But doing so would not give them a warm and fuzzy.
    The Sheriff in the video? Maybe less time at the doughnut shop and more time understanding the law.

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    Regular Member eBratt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    Resolution Passed. By a vote of 2-1.
    So, what good is state preemption is counties and municipalities can just do what they want? Is this going to be on the books until a test case or can it be challenged beforehand? Thoughts, anyone?

    I just realized that the ordinance Deserteagle8338 quoted is CURRENT ordinance for Golden, CO. That is not the proposed JeffCo ordinance.

    Maybe that is news to just me. Did anyone else realize Golden prohibits OC by ordinance? I OCed there just a month or so ago.
    Last edited by eBratt; 05-23-2013 at 12:55 AM.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good" - George Washington
    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Gandhi

    As always, insert standard IANAL disclaimer here.

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    Regular Member eBratt's Avatar
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    This video drives me nuts. It seems like one of the commissioners was attempting to carve out a way for him to OC in the county building but restrict the public. Maybe he was just trying to clarify but it sounded like he was trying to make sure he could walk down the hall and be fine even if they passed (which they did) the ordinance.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good" - George Washington
    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Gandhi

    As always, insert standard IANAL disclaimer here.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eBratt View Post
    So, what good is state preemption is counties and municipalities can just do what they want? Is this going to be on the books until a test case or can it be challenged beforehand? Thoughts, anyone?

    I just realized that the ordinance Deserteagle8338 quoted is CURRENT ordinance for Golden, CO. That is not the proposed JeffCo ordinance.

    Maybe that is news to just me. Did anyone else realize Golden prohibits OC by ordinance? I OCed there just a month or so ago.
    Golden's blanket OC prohibition is nullified by State Statute (preempted). You have to POST the restrictions.

    JeffCo had to put an ordinance in place before they could POST. Golden would have to revamp their ordinance to make it less restrictive in order to comply with the preemption, and then POST at specific areas. Blankets are verboten (except for Denver).

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    Regular Member RandallFlagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eBratt View Post
    So, what good is state preemption is counties and municipalities can just do what they want? Is this going to be on the books until a test case or can it be challenged beforehand? Thoughts, anyone?

    I just realized that the ordinance Deserteagle8338 quoted is CURRENT ordinance for Golden, CO. That is not the proposed JeffCo ordinance.

    Maybe that is news to just me. Did anyone else realize Golden prohibits OC by ordinance? I OCed there just a month or so ago.
    Yeah, this whole issue is so confusing to my Wife and I.
    She was just asking me if we can OC in unincorporated Denver, in Adams County.
    Sadly, I have no clue.
    Why do I have a bar in my home? Because it's cheaper to stock a bar than to get a DUI.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandallFlagg View Post
    Yeah, this whole issue is so confusing to my Wife and I.
    She was just asking me if we can OC in unincorporated Denver, in Adams County.
    Sadly, I have no clue.
    Well, there is no such place as unincorporated Denver, the borders of the City of Denver are precisely the same as the limits of the County of Denver.

    If it's unincorporated Adams, the answer is yes, you can.
    If it's anywhere within Denver, the answer is No.

    Here is a good map of Denver to tell the boundaries:
    http://www.denvergov.org/FindYourZon...5/Default.aspx
    Last edited by JamesB; 05-23-2013 at 05:02 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member RandallFlagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    Well, there is no such place as unincorporated Denver, the borders of the City of Denver are precisely the same as the limits of the County of Denver.

    If it's unincorporated Adams, the answer is yes, you can.
    If it's anywhere within Denver, the answer is No.

    Here is a good map of Denver to tell the boundaries:
    http://www.denvergov.org/FindYourZon...5/Default.aspx
    Color coding things is cruel to us color blind folks...


    My Wife and I are in the Twin Lakes, Sherrelwood area.
    Right northwest where I-25 and HWY 36 intersect.
    BTW, Thank you for the reply and assistance.
    Why do I have a bar in my home? Because it's cheaper to stock a bar than to get a DUI.

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