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Thread: force to evacuate

  1. #1
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    force to evacuate

    Not gun related but didn't know where else to ask.
    In Ky when can LEO force you to evacuate your home?
    IE. disaster, damage to home, hazmat, law enforcement activity, ect.
    What KRS(s) would it fall under.


    Mike

  2. #2
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Not without a warrant, and I am not sure on the statute's number, but we do have KRS that protects our rights during a state of emergency. Of course if you have a HAZMAT spill or leak or situation near your home, I seriously doubt you'll want to stick around long enough to see if they'll drag you out of your own home. But then again, You are free to stay and tell us how long it takes for your skin to melt, I'll wait eagerly,
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  3. #3
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    If anyone ever tries to remove me from my home I would use lethal force. KRS Chapter 503 is very clear when it states that anyone trying to physically remove us from OUR residence is doing so with ill-intent.

    (1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
    (a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcibly entering or had unlawfully and forcibly entered a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person's will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
    (b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

    Any peace officer that is attempting to remove me from my home without a proper warrant is doing so unlawfully and I will respond accordingly.

    (d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a peace officer, as defined in KRS 446.010, who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties, and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a peace officer.

    Entering is one thing; unlawfully attempting to remove me from MY residence is a different story.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Mantioch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Not without a warrant, and I am not sure on the statute's number, but we do have KRS that protects our rights during a state of emergency. Of course if you have a HAZMAT spill or leak or situation near your home, I seriously doubt you'll want to stick around long enough to see if they'll drag you out of your own home. But then again, You are free to stay and tell us how long it takes for your skin to melt, I'll wait eagerly,
    I agree. Here's the only thing I could find that was relevant. I don't think anyone can physically force you to leave but under most conditions, I'm not sure you would want to stay. And in most cases you would likely forfeit any attempt to rescue you after the zombies are in your neighborhood.

    http://kyem.ky.gov/Evacuation/Pages/default.aspx
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers

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    What about those Level 3 snow emergencies where they tell you can't travel unless it is an emergency? Is that really legal?
    I am not a lawyer, I study the history of gun control laws.

  6. #6
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest View Post
    What about those Level 3 snow emergencies where they tell you can't travel unless it is an emergency? Is that really legal?
    Ya know, that's a good question. I never listened, when I heard those types of warnings wherever I lived or was at when it happened, I guess it has to do with my right to travel unimpaired.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/039a00/100.pdf

    Read 39A.100, sections 1(f) and 2(b) very carefully. You can be declared such a person and, as the statute says, forcibly removed to a place of safety.

    The nice part is that they cannot take your guns and ammo. BUT - I'll bet the shelters have "no firearms" policies. They will if operated by the Red Cross. For quite some time now the Salvation Army has been cut out of the sheltering business due to a federal "agreement" with ARC. The one SA homeless shelter where I did volunteer work had no problems with me OCing while there.

    stay safe.
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  8. #8
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/039a00/100.pdf

    Read 39A.100, sections 1(f) and 2(b) very carefully. You can be declared such a person and, as the statute says, forcibly removed to a place of safety.

    The nice part is that they cannot take your guns and ammo. BUT - I'll bet the shelters have "no firearms" policies. They will if operated by the Red Cross. For quite some time now the Salvation Army has been cut out of the sheltering business due to a federal "agreement" with ARC. The one SA homeless shelter where I did volunteer work had no problems with me OCing while there.

    stay safe.
    Meh, some shelters are set up in churches, and I don't get along with churches, plus the ones who get set up as shelters are anti-firearms.

    I've OC'd into ARC blood bank/drive buildings and RV's with no problems. Just don't tell them that I lie on the form about not being gay.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/039a00/100.pdf

    Read 39A.100, sections 1(f) and 2(b) very carefully. You can be declared such a person and, as the statute says, forcibly removed to a place of safety.

    The nice part is that they cannot take your guns and ammo. BUT - I'll bet the shelters have "no firearms" policies. They will if operated by the Red Cross. For quite some time now the Salvation Army has been cut out of the sheltering business due to a federal "agreement" with ARC. The one SA homeless shelter where I did volunteer work had no problems with me OCing while there.

    stay safe.
    lets face it though..... if they have to arrest you to remove you, that means they're using manpower, fuel, vehicles etc to facilitate the "evacuation" of one person, while there's likely a panicked evacuation of thousands neaby that needs as much manpower as can be spared. I'd chalk that up as very unlikely you will be removed, as far as your food stores, that's why you shouldn't appear on doomsday preppers or the internet talking about your food, I'd also reccommend dumping your clothes and jewelry boxes on the front lawn and breaking a window or two to make it look like your residence has already been looted, making it less likely any looters, be they government or "private sector" will want to spend the time to look through....
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Exclamation

    If they attempt to enforce KRS 39A.100, section C. That very well could lead to a blood bath!
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

  11. #11
    Regular Member Mantioch's Avatar
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    Re: force to evacuate

    Really? Going to shoot at people in a bona fide emergency that are trying to do their jobs and get people to safety? If its a made up emergency, I get it. Otherwise, I think that's a pretty hardline stance.

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    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers

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  12. #12
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantioch View Post
    Really? Going to shoot at people in a bona fide emergency that are trying to do their jobs and get people to safety? If its a made up emergency, I get it. Otherwise, I think that's a pretty hardline stance.

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    Some of us don't take kindly to the thought or action of a thug in uniform forcefully removing us from our homes, it must be a Eastern KY thing, unless L-Ville suddenly has a backbone.
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  13. #13
    Regular Member Mantioch's Avatar
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    Re: force to evacuate

    Don't lecture me about backbone, son. And I'm not from Louisville. Posting about slaughtering first responders trying to help people doesn't advance our cause and is immature spouting off. **** ** **** **** *** ***. No one cares.

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    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-24-2013 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Unacceptable verbiage
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers

    "I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians." - George Mason

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantioch View Post
    Don't lecture me about backbone, son. And I'm not from Louisville. Posting about slaughtering first responders trying to help people doesn't advance our cause and is immature spouting off. Stay in your home and die. No one cares.

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    Then why this:

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    It's probably just me, but trash-talking back to someone trash-talking never got things very far. Back in my youth (shortly after the molten mass cooled) we called that "wolfing" or "doing the dozens". It needed to be done with style and panache or you came off looking/sounding lame.

    In case you never heard it called that, check here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dozens and here http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/inde...?date=19960903 and here http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tm...he_dozens.html and here http://www.elijahwald.com/dozens.html . (The problem is that all those fine folks seem to want to believe the activity was confined to the African-American culture. I'm so white people stand by me to read the newspaper at night, and I first learned the game and its techniques in Eastern Europe.)

    stay safe.
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  15. #15
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    its not trash talking if its true :P

    I kid, I kid, I have lots of love for my fellow Kentuckians, well, except for for one or two people on and off the forum. And my jab at Mantioch was supposed to be far more subtle than what my fingers typed out, one of those "my mind thought something, my fingers typed another" thing.

    Also, I ain't no 'boy'; Just because I'm gay doesn't mean you can think that I'd lay down to your wording, I like to play rough too, and look good while doing it.
    Last edited by DrakeZ07; 05-24-2013 at 09:28 AM. Reason: Screw spelling. Gods forbid I use harsh wording to make a point.
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  16. #16
    Regular Member Mantioch's Avatar
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    Re: force to evacuate

    I currently live in Louisville, I'm not from Louisville.

    And I wasn't trash talking. Maybe I missed one of the primary reasons for this forum, but I thought it was to educate and bring firearms back into the norm in an anthropological way through our behavior with them. People come here to get information and learn about what open carry is all about. Reading this chain, they are going to think its a bunch of gun nut zealots that kill firemen and police officers trying to evacuate people from the homes in a crisis. Is that really the image we want to show people? Does that really advance our cause? If I'm mistaken, then rock on.

    And the backbone comment wasn't necessary. I'm making a point and it isn't necessary to be personal just because you don't like it.

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    "I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians." - George Mason

  17. #17
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantioch View Post
    I currently live in Louisville, I'm not from Louisville.

    And I wasn't trash talking. Maybe I missed one of the primary reasons for this forum, but I thought it was to educate and bring firearms back into the norm in an anthropological way through our behavior with them. People come here to get information and learn about what open carry is all about. Reading this chain, they are going to think its a bunch of gun nut zealots that kill firemen and police officers trying to evacuate people from the homes in a crisis. Is that really the image we want to show people? Does that really advance our cause? If I'm mistaken, then rock on.

    And the backbone comment wasn't necessary. I'm making a point and it isn't necessary to be personal just because you don't like it.

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    People also come here to trade ideas, talk about things regarding OC and how our lives revolver around it, and to meet others involved int he community. People also come here and see that you don't have to be mister perfect to be an OC'er, that we all have different ideas, opinions, thoughts, actions, and attitudes. Just because I'm an OC'er, doesn't mean I have to think and talk perfectly and lovingly about our government, nation, and the people who enforce the laws.

    And unless you want a really peeved gay dude on your hands, then I really would refrain from grouping Firefighters, EMTs, and FR's along with cops. I don't like that too well.
    Last edited by DrakeZ07; 05-24-2013 at 09:37 AM.
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  18. #18
    Regular Member Mantioch's Avatar
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    Re: force to evacuate

    I get that it is a forum for the exchange of ideas. I just don't think there's anything wrong with decorum. So, I guess that makes me Mr. Perfect OC'er, which I'm fine with.

    And all those people work for the government. I get there are volunteers, but there are volunteer deputies as well. I have family that are first responders, EMTs, firefighters. I'm a trained first responder for my company. Not my primary job, I volunteer.

    I guess what I don't get is the personal attacks that seem to be the norm in this forum when people share ideas. I've seen several people ran off since I've been here, which isn't very long.


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    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers

    "I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians." - George Mason

  19. #19
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Its criticism, not personal attacks. And people who get "ran off" are the ones who cannot handle someone criticizing, correcting, or showing them their wrongs/stupidity... Or just realize that this isn't the place to pull latent anti-gun/LEO fishing/trolling behavior.

    And I do apologize if you -think- that I am attacking you, I'm not, I just use heavy-handed criticism, and sarcasm.

    A key thing to remember is, not to throw in unrelated groups/people into something that doesn't involve them, then call foul when someone stands up to it. When someone says there would be a bloodbath if they was unlawfully forced from their home, then its a statement of intent to defend their life, and liberty from unjust and illegal actions of law enforcement
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  20. #20
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantioch View Post
    Really? Going to shoot at people in a bona fide emergency that are trying to do their jobs and get people to safety? If its a made up emergency, I get it. Otherwise, I think that's a pretty hardline stance.

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    Neuroblades never once said he would or condoned shooting at first responders. He merely pointed out a very probably scenario.
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  21. #21
    Regular Member Manzanita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Neuroblades never once said he would or condoned shooting at first responders. He merely pointed out a very probably scenario.
    And my first thought after reading the KRS paragraph he referenced was, "damn right".

  22. #22
    Regular Member Mantioch's Avatar
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    I get it.

    Everyone:

    My sincere apologies. And I'm being very serious, not sarcastic. I want to say that I get it now. I spent a good portion of the day (too much, in fact) researching the UN Arms Treaty, and the "Freedom from War" document circa 1961. This lead me to various reports and videos concerning the illegal disarmament of American citizens during Hurricane Katrina by night raids from US National Guard members from Oklahoma who had been federalized as well as NOPD.

    I get it. And I now agree. Seems like it won't be police coming in, though. It will be federalized troops with automatic weapons kicking in your doors at 2 in the morning.

    Drake, neuroblades. Sorry, dudes.
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers

    "I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians." - George Mason

  23. #23
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantioch View Post
    Everyone:

    My sincere apologies. And I'm being very serious, not sarcastic. I want to say that I get it now. I spent a good portion of the day (too much, in fact) researching the UN Arms Treaty, and the "Freedom from War" document circa 1961. This lead me to various reports and videos concerning the illegal disarmament of American citizens during Hurricane Katrina by night raids from US National Guard members from Oklahoma who had been federalized as well as NOPD.

    I get it. And I now agree. Seems like it won't be police coming in, though. It will be federalized troops with automatic weapons kicking in your doors at 2 in the morning.

    Drake, neuroblades. Sorry, dudes.
    Apology accepted, now come over here and give me a big hug! Because huggles make the world go round!~ [at least it does in my fragile reality].
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
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    =^.^= ~<3~ =^.^=
    Beware the Pink Camo clad gay redneck.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantioch View Post
    Everyone:

    My sincere apologies. And I'm being very serious, not sarcastic. I want to say that I get it now. I spent a good portion of the day (too much, in fact) researching the UN Arms Treaty, and the "Freedom from War" document circa 1961. This lead me to various reports and videos concerning the illegal disarmament of American citizens during Hurricane Katrina by night raids from US National Guard members from Oklahoma who had been federalized as well as NOPD.

    I get it. And I now agree. Seems like it won't be police coming in, though. It will be federalized troops with automatic weapons kicking in your doors at 2 in the morning.

    Drake, neuroblades. Sorry, dudes.
    I watched those videos a while back also. They was troublesome to me. Can that happen in Ky. where it is in our state constitution that it is not allowed? In a time of emergency or natural disaster does federal law over ride state charters? I on the other had, have quite a few rifles, handguns, and a few shotguns. I have a few that are not in my house. Some are stored... well, I wont say where, but they are very well concealed with ammo and everything for them.

  25. #25
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    I found this while searching the statutes and I just cannot believe what I have read. Let me know if anyone knew of this, because I sure didn't.

    Anyways, as it turns out, PAID firefighters are considered PEACE OFFICERS in Kentucky, and have ALL of the POWERS that are given to SHERIFFS! Yes, you read that right folks!

    I figured this was a good place to post this, since it pertains to the question that was asked. Here are a couple statutes:

    75.160 Attendance of chief at board meetings -- Definition of chief -- Members as peace officers.

    (1) The chief of the fire department in fire protection districts shall attend all sessions of the board, except executive sessions, and he shall execute all the orders of the board. Whenever "chief" is used in KRS 75.100 to 75.260, it shall include the assistant chief when the chief is not on duty.

    (2) The regular members of the fire department in fire protection districts, except volunteer fireman, shall have the same powers of ARREST as now given by law to SHERIFFS of this Commonwealth and they are hereby expressly declared conservators of the public peace whose duties, in addition to their other prescribed duties, are to conserve the peace, ENFORCE all laws and preserve order, and they shall have and are hereby expressly given the same right and the same POWER TO ARREST, SEARCH and SEIZE as is now given by law to sheriffs of this Commonwealth, and they shall be at all times subject to the orders of the county judge/executive in which the fire district lies while enforcing the provisions of this section. Provided, however, that members of said fire departments shall not have the power to serve subpoenas, summonses and notices in civil cases and they shall receive no fees for performing any of the duties prescribed in this section as pertains to powers of law enforcement. The members shall constitute a law enforcement agency in addition to the patrol and investigation functions of the sheriff and his deputies under KRS 75.150 to 75.170.

    UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!

    This helps with the question that has been asked:

    75.440 Funds available to recognized and certified fire department -- Rights and responsibilities of department -- Fire chief...

    ....
    (3) The officers and firefighters, whether paid or unpaid, of each fire department created pursuant to KRS Chapter 273 and recognized and certified by the commission shall select a chief. The appointment of the chief shall be subject to the approval of the governing board of the department. The chief shall establish a chain of command within the department. The chief, or the highest person available in the chain of command if the chief cannot be present, shall, subject to all state statutes as applicable, have the following rights and responsibilities:

    (a) Authority to order the IMMEDIATE EVACUATION of areas endangered by fire, a hazardous materials incident, or OTHER impending DISASTER that constitutes a THREAT to life or property;

    (b) Authority to be in charge of all fire ground operations at the scene of a fire or OTHER emergency;
    .....
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 06-21-2013 at 09:50 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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